The fact that you think swimming and throwing are the only new things in the game reinforces my belief that you haven't played DKCTF. It also convinces me that you're not big on Platformers, which is... Eh. I don't really care what your preferred genre is. Enjoy whatever you enjoy, but here's the thing: as someone who not only enjoys Platformers, but actively plays them, DKCTF isn't like anything else on the market. Never have I played a Platformer that so heavily challenges and encourages players to get good at the game. Never have I seen a game that excels so well at facilitating speed runs. DKCTF is quite literally the best Platformer I think I've ever played.
And I fail to see how anything having to do with shooting liquid on surfaces is automatically too similar to Super Mario Sunshine, even if it is different in just about every other way.
Well, for one, one of the Sunshine designers is co-heading the Splatoon development sooo... That's how.
Okay... what's your point? Isn't the game still different in every other way?
First of all, let's stick to 8th gen, because that's where Nintendo's problems are.
Nah, BS. This whine has been going on forever. If anything last gen was the least interesting in terms of new ideas from Nintendo, and they came up with Galaxy and Wii Sports. This gen they've been reviving a lot of content from the GC era and coming up with new IP. Whether you think it or not this isn't just a "Wii U" thing, and it ain't a "problem". It's a whine.
Now then, you can see, especially with their biggest IPs, a lack of game changing ideas
Yeah, yeah. 3D World is just New SMB in 3D even though it shares more ideas with Galaxy if you actually play it. I'll agree with you that 3D World did disappoint me when it was announced and when I played through it I was constantly comparing it to the way Galaxy was in my head. But going back to those stages in the bonus levels of Captain Toad? They're actually genuinely interesting levels when you look back at them without the cynical glasses.
The fact that it took them until Splatoon, a new IP released halfway through the console's life (which even then, is loosely based on Sunshine), for Nintendo to come up with something that displays any semblance of creativity is indicative of how weak a gameplay direction they have for this gen.
Are you seriously going to be that strict about what constitutes a new idea? Do you apply this same level of nonsensical strictness to other companies? By this reasoning Shovel Knight is "just" Megaman meets Ducktales with elements of Zelda 2. Pokemon is just a toned down version of Earthbound with the Tamagochi fad thrown in. Ori and the Blind Forest is just Super Meat Boy meets Child of Light. Big games like Bioshock, GTA, Deus Ex? They've literally been making those games in some form since the 90s. It's possible to do this with any game, movie, book, album or pretty much anything. You could probably even make some sort of argument as to why Galaxy and Portal are just 10% interesting ideas and 90% bottom of the iceberg sameness. You could argue that, but you'd be missing the point.
@TingLz@UGXWolf You're both missing the point. Retro was looking at it in terms of new gameplay. Making a quality game that's challenging and good for speed runs is great and all, but that's not new gameplay. What Tropical Freeze added didn't amount to much. You had the swimming and throwing which I mentioned earlier, and then there was playable Cranky Kong, but his abilities didn't come into play much. Nothing else is really significant (Dixie plays very similar to Diddy, Kong POW is a finisher that doesn't really add anything, and the 3D is mainly used for spectacle and rarely changes the level design). And these are their "new possibilities"? That's the thing, the platforming genre has gotten very stagnant lately. Remember when we got platformers like Sunshine and Galaxy and they actually changed things up? We need more platformers like those again, none of these sterilized nostalgia fueled rehashes.
Anyway, let's look at some of the things that Prime 4 can do with the Gamepad. First of all, there's the usual map and menu screens. You could use the Gyroscope to aim and to use visors. We saw Metroid Blast use the Gamepad to control Samus' ship, they could do more with that. Hell, Retro even mentioned their own usage for the Gamepad, where you can use functions on Samus' arm flap (http://wiiudaily.com/2013/06/retro-studios-on-wii-u-metroid/). It's no contest, Metroid has much more use for the Gamepad than DK, so choosing DK because they thought there was more they could do with it makes no sense.
At this point choosing either Metroid or Donkey Kong is limiting Retro. I don't want to see Retro become the "Metroid/DK dev".
Going back on the actual topic of the thread, the writing is definitely on the wall for the Wii U. At the same time though, the same could be said of the 3DS. We don't know a single game coming to the west in the second half of 2015 for the thing. Fire Emblem? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it will come to the west in 2015.
It's no contest, Metroid has much more use for the Gamepad than DK, so choosing DK because they thought there was more they could do with it makes no sense.
I can see this argument is dead. You are obviously upset that they chose DK over Metroid, so you're going to go to whatever lengths to show how it is inferior.
At this point choosing either Metroid or Donkey Kong is limiting Retro. I don't want to see Retro become the "Metroid/DK dev".
Going back on the actual topic of the thread, the writing is definitely on the wall for the Wii U. At the same time though, the same could be said of the 3DS. We don't know a single game coming to the west in the second half of 2015 for the thing. Fire Emblem? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it will come to the west in 2015.
I think Retro should branch out as well.
That's because Nintendo hasn't presented anything for 3DS in the second half. I think they'll save most of the announcements for e3
I can see this argument is dead. You are obviously upset that they chose DK over Metroid, so you're going to go to whatever lengths to show how it is inferior.
No, I didn't have to go to any lengths. DK, and platformers in general are just that stagnant.
Nah, BS. This whine has been going on forever. If anything last gen was the least interesting in terms of new ideas from Nintendo, and they came up with Galaxy and Wii Sports. This gen they've been reviving a lot of content from the GC era and coming up with new IP. Whether you think it or not this isn't just a "Wii U" thing, and it ain't a "problem". It's a whine.
Reviving GC era content? You mean aside from the remakes that are just old enough to be outdated? Because aside from that the only thing they did to recognize the GC era was bring back Luigi's Mansion. I haven't seen Sunshine come back. I haven't seen a Metroid Prime game. I haven't seen Kirby Air Ride. Smash and Mario Kart are always bringing back new content. That's not that much, aside from that they've just been repeating what they've done on the Wii and DS.
Yeah, yeah. 3D World is just New SMB in 3D even though it shares more ideas with Galaxy if you actually play it. I'll agree with you that 3D World did disappoint me when it was announced and when I played through it I was constantly comparing it to the way Galaxy was in my head.
The only things 3D World has in common with Galaxy is that they're both in 3D and they recycled Galaxy's level gimmicks. Aside from that, it's NSMB in 3D.
But going back to those stages in the bonus levels of Captain Toad? They're actually genuinely interesting levels when you look back at them without the cynical glasses.
Except Captain Toad isn't part of the main gameplay, I appreciate them more in Treasure Tracker where they're the main focus and not just a side gimmick.
@Bolt_Strike Platformers are no more stagnant than every other genre. Every genre has gone stagnant to some degree.
False. Some genres do constantly evolve. Exploration games continue to get more and more open ended. RPGs add new battle and exploration mechanics. Adventure games add new abilities. The only other genres that really stagnate that much are shooters and racing.
@skywake Are you going somewhere with this or are you going to keep criticizing what I do and don't play?
@Bolt_Strike
As I said, I played 3D World and thought it was decent. Ok but not ground breaking. I then went back to those same levels in Captain Toad and found a new appreciation for them. A statement which you then misunderstood to think I was talking about the Captain Toad sections in 3D World. I'm kinda at risk of throwing some minor spoilers out here, but anyone who has played both will know what I was talking about. Clearly you haven't.
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
@skywake I haven't had a chance to get my hands on Captain Toad, yet, but even then, I got what you were talking about.
@Bolt_Strike Again, those may not seem like much to you, but as someone who's played every 2D platformer he could track down (and obviously a lot of other games, but those aren't really relevant), DKCTF is anything but a rehash. And from what I can see, your list of things they could've done new with Metroid is all stuff that has actually already been done, as well.
Also, a major correction about Cranky. You're entirely wrong. He is by far the most useful Kong buddy in the game. I find that Diddy is actually the hardest one to utilize. And Dixie doesn't really function all that much like Diddy, believe it or not. Or rather, she excels in the air while Diddy excels in the water. And there was actually quite a lot of mechanics, hub, and background changes that were extremely significant from a gameplay perspective. The most notable being that minecarts don't crash in one hit, which makes them entirely fair for a change. Same goes for rocket barrels. You also vastly underestimate the power of "now do the awesome stuff you did last time, but this time, do it better."
Now, while you keep saying that Platformers are stagnant, I've yet to see one reason that exploration and FPS aren't.
@UGXwolf I always found Dixie Kong most useful though I guess that's more of a playstyle choice. I still have a significant number of stages to get all the puzzle pieces and beat on hard mode so my journey to Tropical Freeze completion is far from over.
As for the whole stagnant debate. FPS is way more stagnant than platformers because of the hugely popular yearly franchises CoD, Battlefield and Halo. None of them are really doing anything new whereas games like Tropical Freeze have added new game mechanics via adding new playable characters and then of course there's the return of collectathon platformers with stuff such as Project Ukulele.
Of course Nintendo is trying to liven up the shooter genre by creating Splatoon and we'll (hopefully) see in 2 months (provided it's not delayed) how well that does.
@UGXwolf Visor control isn't anything new, but the way visors themselves work certainly changes with the Gamepad. You wouldn't have to replace the Combat Visor to use the other visors, which means that you can multitask with them. Also, Retro's idea to use Samus' arm flap would probably lead to some new abilities. So no, that actually does lead to new gameplay mechanics.
Of course Nintendo is trying to liven up the shooter genre by creating Splatoon and we'll (hopefully) see in 2 months (provided it's not delayed) how well that does.
Splatoon? That's just a copy of Mario Sunshine, nothing new there
@Bolt_Strike Do you wonder why it's so easy to call you out on not having played any of the games you're criticizing? Anybody can say that they didn't like SM3DW or DKCTF. That's fine. What makes it so obvious that you've never actually played them is how you claim at length that they're iterative and do nothing new and that the platforming genre as a whole is stagnant. You would know this isn't true if you just played them.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
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