Topic: Is Zelda's delay the writing on the wall for the Wii U?

That's true, but you shouldn't totally ignore your fans either. If Nintendo would listen more to the fans (and give them what they want), the Wii u wouldn't be in such a bad shape. What we really don't want is mobile-apps and micro-transactions. We want Metroid, F-Zero, etc.

Yet fans got Bayonetta, Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and more. Nintendo has never totally ignored their fans. Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean that all fans are "totally ignored".

Just out of curiosity I dug into the early threads on this sub-forum and found a "Wii U game wishlist" thread. Lots of 2011 posts, stuff before E3 2011. Here are some of the games people were demanding:

• Pikmin 3 (i.e. we know it's a thing, please delay and put on Wii U instead of Wii)
• Mario Kart
• Smash Bros
• Super Mario Galaxy 3
• Zelda (with a lot of people asking for something like Wind Waker)
• Donkey Kong Country Returns 2
• Kirby
• Metroid Prime 4
• F-Zero
• Star Fox
• New IP

...... I reckon they listen to their fans plenty

Pokemon Online RPG. That is the foolproof guarantee to make any Ninty system a wild success.

The only thing the Zelda delay means, is that Zelda is delayed.

This is the opposite of reality, sorry. Otherwise, Pikmin 3 would've sold better.

So that's 8 out of 11 answered. Interesting. And I'm guessing Retro is doing something Metroid shaped right now.

Why does everyone assume this? Seriously, Retro isn't "that one company what does the Metroid games," that was kind of the point of ending Prime. They didn't want to be the Metroid guys, and from what it sounds like, Retro doesn't plan on doing more Metroid, just yet. After Tropical Freeze, it certainly sounded like they wanted to give Donkey Kong one more swing. Why not give the Metroid action to a new group. Or an old one. Just make sure it's one that will treat the IP with respect and show Samus the quality she deserves.

As if that's hard to please, they're just listing IPs they want to see more of. When it comes to the more specific demands, they haven't delivered. Galaxy 3? Nope, we got NSMB in 3D. Prime 4? Nope, Metroid has been ignored this entire gen. And for most of the IPs they have delivered on, they were minimalist rehashes of tired formulas that failed to do anything interesting with the Gamepad, and I'm sure most of the fanbase wasn't happy about that. So I wouldn't exactly say that's delivering to their fans as much as it is staying the course, and they probably did not make that decision with the fans in mind.

Which is ironic, because in trying to avoid being the Metroid guys, they became the Donkey Kong guys. I respect that they want to work on more than one IP, but they were already doing that when they made DKCR, and by choosing Tropical Freeze over Prime 4 they defeated the point of not working on Prime. Plus Prime has a lot more potential for new mechanics than DK because there's so many things that the Gamepad could add that would benefit the gameplay, so their "there was more we could do with DK" excuse falls flat on its face and makes them look like idiots. All in all, their reasons for avoiding Prime are utterly nonsensical.

Why do we need another Galaxy game? 2 was just Super Mario 3D World in space by your standards, so why not try something without floating platforms? How about Sunshine 2 or, dare I say, a new setting.

@Bolt_Strike
Well apparently it is hard to please because when they deliver on the vast majority of what people claim to want people still complain. Look at what people are asking for in the NX sub-forum, it's the same thing again. I think if you went back to 2011 and told people in that thread that we'd get all of that by the end of 2015 except F-Zero, Metroid Prime and the Mario wouldn't quite be Galaxy? They'd take it. I remember being pretty sceptical of the Wii U well into the hype cycle, confirmation of the library we ended up getting would have killed that scepticism. You can't say that they don't listen to fans when fans are asking for precisely what they delivered.

And looking at my post from pre-Wii U launch on that same thread. I said that Pikmin, Kart, Smash, Mario and Zelda were inevitable and that obviously everyone wanted those. I remember being pretty keen on the idea of Okami on the Wii U but I didn't say it in that thread. What I did throw out there was that I would like to see GTAV confirmed, so that the "core" audience would take the platform seriously. But that I'd also like to a strategy game that makes proper use of the GamePad. We got neither, which I reckon was part of what screwed over the Wii U launch. But we did get all the other things so I don't care.

Well, one day, 3rd parties might care. We're still just barely getting out of 7th generation multiplatform material, as it is, which means they've been cheapos the whole time. It still matters, though, because the cheaper they are, the better chances there are of people keeping their jobs I would consider that more important than rushing into really expensive stuff like they did on Xbox 360 and PS3 at the end. That's probably why we're still getting 7th generation multiplatform material to begin with. The graphics are only a bit better so far, except for exclusives.

I'd be happy with anything that isn't a sterilized rehash in a generic Mushroom Kingdom setting at this point, there's been far too much of that recently. But yes, a new setting would be ideal.

I'm actually not that hard a person to please. I just don't like to see the same games done the same way over and over again, and they've failed in that regard this gen. Where did the standards go?

Not really. I see less asking for the same Nintendo IPs over and over again and more asking for a change in the lineup, asking for things like new IPs, games that show off what the hardware can do, revivals of older IPs, third parties, etc.

It depends on how much information you give them on those games. If you tell people a particular IP is coming, then of course they're going to get excited. Everyone wants to see new games. But if you tell them exactly what the games are like, they're probably not going to be as excited because it wasn't what they envisioned for the next installment in that series. The fans are a bit more discerning than they let on. A good example of this was E3 2013. Nintendo mentioned ahead of time that they were going to show off Mario, Mario Kart, and Smash at E3, as well as a new entry from a beloved franchise made by Retro. Most people assumed that we would be getting a Mario collectathon and Metroid Prime 4 and that the games would make good use of the Gamepad. After they revealed 3D World and Tropical Freeze, there was a sense of resounding disappointment in the lineup. So even if they're not saying it, a lot of the fans don't just want any old game from that IP, they have more specific expectations.

@Bolt_Strike
They can't please everyone is the point I'm making. The point about how people assumed "Mario and something from Retro" was Galaxy 3 and Metroid Prime 4 kinda proves that point. And you can guarantee if they had done F-Zero rather than StarFox and Metroid Prime rather than Zelda people would be asking for the other one. Likely more vocally given how much more popular the ones they're doing are. If you're trying to argue that they haven't hit all of the major "wants" in terms of software with the Wii U? I don't think I agree with you. At all.

You see it with the NX announcement. People set themselves up for disappointment right from the start. From what I can tell one of the main "wants" from this thing is that it'll be a portable console you can connect wirelessly to your TV. At which point it'll also be competitive with the PS4 in terms of visuals. All of this presumably without breaking the bank and launching alongside Metroid, Smash, Kart and a whole list of third party titles on day 1. There's no way they or any company can deliver that... but that doesn't mean they "don't listen"

Sadly for MMOs to be profitable they normally have to go Free-to-Play and have questionable microtransations ($5 for a 24 hour EXP Bonus? Maybe when my wife is out of town and I have all day to play that 1 game, which almost never happens)

But I would pay so much for a Pokemon MMO lol

Maybe because a Metroid game is due and they're good at making them? We've had enough Donkey Kong for a few years!

[quote=skywakeThey can't please everyone is the point I'm making. The point about how people assumed "Mario and something from Retro" was Galaxy 3 and Metroid Prime 4 kinda proves that point. And you can guarantee if they had done F-Zero rather than StarFox and Metroid Prime rather than Zelda people would be asking for the other one. Likely more vocally given how much more popular the ones they're doing are. If you're trying to argue that they haven't hit all of the major "wants" in terms of software with the Wii U? I don't think I agree with you. At all.

[/quote]

They can't please everyone, but they could be doing a better job than this. Giving people sequels to existing games isn't hitting all of the major wants, they need some kind of new ideas mixed in.

The big problem here is Other M, that is more than likely the sole reason we haven't had a new Metroid game for 5 years. I think the story of that game probably damaged the franchise too much as Samus' character is completely ruined and people are reminded of it via Pyrosphere being in Smash (Frigate Orpheon returning would've been more wise).

I'm all in favour of a new Metroid preferably of the Prime style but I see Other M providing some huge barriers and hence a Tropical Freeze sequel being more likely (or a Tropical Freeze remake for (N)3DS)

Like bringing back games like StarFox, Luigi's Mansion, Donkey Kong Country or Pikmin after ten year or so? Or reviving games that haven't seen a major release for ages like Kid Icarus and Metroid but with an entirely different style of game? Or particular versions of franchises that haven't been around for a bit like a 2D Mario game or Kirby's Canvas Curse? Perhaps a new take on an existing IP like Hyrule Warriors? Or an entirely new IP like Splatoon or Code Name Steam?

They're obviously doing none of those things. It's just the same games over and over again

I don't think you've played Super Mario 3D World.

And thus my point was missed. I didn't say they should do another Donkey Kong. I said it sounded like they were still interested in that IP. I was pointing out that Retro isn't the only company that can do Metroid. In fact, from what I've been told, from a gameplay standpoint, even Other M is pretty great. I'm not saying any team could pick up Metroid, but Retro isn't the only team capable of it, and a quick reiteration, in case @Bolt_Strike didn't catch it when Retro said it or any of the ten to twenty times I've reminded people of this fact (including once or twice in this thread, if memory serves). PRIME ISN'T COMING BACK! Retro ended the series with 3 and have openly stated they have no plans to make a 4. Now the gameplay style may very well come back, but FPS mechanics aren't that hard to work out. Retro's not the only team that can make a 3D Metroid, and it doesn't appear that Retro is going back to Metroid just yet.

Also, back to @Bolt_Strike here for a second, Making a second DK game doesn't make them "the DK guys" any more than making a third Prime made them "the Metroid guys." Nor did they choose to do DKCTF over Prime 4, since, you know, they didn't plan on MAKING a Prime 4. Thus they didn't choose one over the other. The other wasn't a choice. They could've worked with a new IP, and who's to say they won't be the next guys to pick up Kid Icarus or Ice Climbers and take them for a spin? Who's to say that they won't come up with their own ideas, this time? Retro is to Nintendo, now, but Rareware was to them three generations ago.

Give them some creative space. There's nothing worse than a company that blindly panders to their fans. Remember Sonic '06? That's what happens when you let the fans force you to release a game too early. SEGA STILL hasn't recovered from that game.

EDIT: Also, I didn't wanna be the one to say it, but...