Wii U Forum

Topic: Is this part of the reason why the Wii U struggles?

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TheAdrock

21. Posted:

My only interest in ANY Nintendo console is to play new Zelda titles, to a lesser extent old Nintendo games on VC, and to a far lesser extent new Mario titles.
The most interesting thing to me about Wii U is the upcoming WindWaker remake, upcoming Ducktales remake, and whatever new Zelda title is coming. I have no interest in Nintendo outside of those titles.

Zelda is the best game series in history.

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Innit

22. Posted:

The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms in terms of game styles is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS games when consoles don't.

No… that's a massive over simplification. In terms of difference, there is a lot more to PC gaming that 2 genres. The main difference is an entire ethos of commitment, be that time, money, hardware and peripheral, depth of involvement, etc etc.
And that stretches from football management or flight sims to quirky underground 'concept' platformers to painfully intricate D&D card games, as well as RTS, MMOs etc.

Basically, the reasons I don't PC.

Does this signiy anyting but the cultural value of Zelda and Mario? On the internet you will find people who have and haven't played everything. A forum about what you haven't played will get games of cultural signifigance for the most part. You shoudn't be suprised or take this as sign of anything. This is all to be completly expected

What this guy said.

Edited on by Innit

Innit

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Captain_Balko

23. Posted:

I don't understand people who say that Zelda is no longer a system seller. I can't tell you how many people I know that bought a Wii so they could play what they figured was the definitive version of Twilight Princess. If a Zelda game was released on Wii U, I'm sure sales would go way up.

Captain_Balko

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Innit

24. Posted:

It's the way the term is used. I use it, like many others, to mean selling a system to new customers. Wii fit was a system seller. Halo was a system seller, etc. Mario platformers used to be system sellers.

Of course Zelda fans are going to buy a system for a brand new AAA console Zelda. But that a shrinking - not growing - pool.

I've mixed feelings on WWHD. I'm very fond of the game, but I take it as a clear sign a real Zelda U is 2015/16.

Look at Skyward Sword.

Innit

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kkslider5552000

25. Posted:

Captain_Balko wrote:

I don't understand people who say that Zelda is no longer a system seller. I can't tell you how many people I know that bought a Wii so they could play what they figured was the definitive version of Twilight Princess. If a Zelda game was released on Wii U, I'm sure sales would go way up.

yeah, I think its the same people that assume a game can only be successful if it sells as much as Call of Duty ('sup Square Enix). I mean Skyward Sword apparently sold several million copies despite the hardcore burying the system for all eternity and being basically dead in America for an entire year.

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Tertis

26. Posted:

Mario is still selling, Zelda is still selling, and if it doesn't, they'll reintroduce it with a big marketing campaign.

cough

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Innit

27. Posted:

I mean Skyward Sword apparently sold several million copies despite the hardcore burying the system for all eternity and being basically dead in America for an entire year.

It was 3.5 million, give or take. Down from 6.8 for TP (+ an additional 1.5 for Gamecube)

WW 4.6m and OOT 7.6m.

You can't blame the hardcore for Wii falling off a cliff - and therefore Skyward Sword sales. Nintendo hung the platform and title out to dry.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/talking_point_why_sk...

Straying further from the topic, but… yeah. It's a shame that SS failed to do anything special, let alone sell systems, because it deserved to. It's in my top 3 Zelda titles. I'm playing it again now, largely because I've nothing else to play on Wii U.

Edited on by theblackdragon

Innit

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Captain_Balko

28. Posted:

I don't think that the Zelda pool is necessarily shrinking - although there are many older gamers that have stopped playing Zelda, there are just as many young ones trying it out. I work as a swim instructor, and I can't tell you how many kids I've had that have just recently started playing Legend of Zelda (I try to bond over video games with my students so they listen to me more and I can make video game based analogies to help them understand), mostly Skyward Sword. I think that a lot of Zelda gamers scoffed at the idea of motion control (I personally adored Skyward Sword and its control scheme, it is quite possibly my favourite game of all time), and perhaps didn't want to bother buying a Wii motionplus controller. I bet that when Zelda Wii U comes out, those same gamers will immediately buy a Wii U with a fervor in their eyes. Also, Mario 3D platformers are certainly system sellers. Perhaps New Super Mario Bros. isn't, but my students go absolutely nuts for 3D Mario. I've had a couple tell me that their favourite game was Super Mario 3D Land, and a lot tell me it was Super Mario Galaxy. Kids love Mario, a new Mario game comes out, parents buy a Wii U so their kid can play Mario. In that way, it's certainly a system seller.

Captain_Balko

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SCAR392

29. Posted:

I think the only way PC only gamers would ever get a console, is if a TON of their PC games were available on consoles, which I think may happen more so this gen, but not entirely, obviously.
Wii U just got the PC version of NFS:MW sans 2(8 to 6) players online, and we all know Wii U can handle some form of PC level games at this point.
The touch screen in theory should pull tons of PC gamers to a TV, because no other console has that. If Starcraft, WoW, or whatever else PC gamers enjoy made it to Wii U, s*** would be crazy for Wii U, and I think it's possible to an extent.
Heck, people can already use a Wii remote or Pro controller on mostly anything with bluetooth.
I really wish I could PC game, but I don't have the money, time, and most games I would play are already on consoles.
3rd parties are needed, but nothing will happen until Nintendo shows their own games and features on the console are worth supporting.

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skywake

30. Posted:

PC gamers are already into console games. Most of the games they play ARE console games because most games these days are cross platform. The fact that so many haven't gotten around to Mario/Zelda probably just says that they both weren't around for even Mario 64/OoT and that it's the only game not to come to PC that they're interested in. The fact that they didn't get around to it with the Wii is what I was trying to make a point about. If they didn't get a Wii and a Mario/Zelda game then why would they get a Wii U? How much longer can Nintendo "win" by simply milking the nostalgia button? It won't work on this next generation.

Innit wrote:

The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms in terms of game styles is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS games when consoles don't.

No… that's a massive over simplification. In terms of difference, there is a lot more to PC gaming that 2 genres. The main difference is an entire ethos of commitment, be that time, money, hardware and peripheral, depth of involvement, etc etc.
And that stretches from football management or flight sims to quirky underground 'concept' platformers to painfully intricate D&D card games, as well as RTS, MMOs etc.

Basically, the reasons I don't PC.

There's a significant misunderstanding on your part. For a start there are plenty of console gamers who invest a fair amount of time and money into their hobby. Pretty rich to argue that PC gamers invest in peripherals on a Nintendo forum. I've probably spent something like $400+ on accessories for my Wii alone, that would get you one hell of a Keyboard + Mouse + etc. And that's ignoring the bundled things like plastic wheels and Gold Classic Controllers.

There are plenty of "quirky underground concept" games on consoles and the ones that don't appear on consoles don't appear because they lacked the audience. An "underground concept" game like Minecraft will stay on PC.... before it gains appeal. Because it's basically free to publish to PC. If you look at what games are popular on PC it's mostly the cross platform titles. Crysis, CoD, Tomb Raider, Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon, Bioshock, Portal, Starcraft, Team Fortress. Games console gamers would, and do, buy in an instant. Popular independent games are the same sort of games you get excited about on the eShop. Games like Bit Trip Runner, Trine, Little Inferno and The Cave are all on PC.

I don't think it's fair to generalize PC gamers as people who sit in their parent's basement playing Dear Esther on their $15,000 PC purely to brag about the polygon count to their unfed cat. Remember that this was the same sort of stereotype the public used to describe console gamers before it gained mass appeal.

Edited on by skywake

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Lan

31. Posted:

I'm a PC gamer and a Nintendo gamer. PC for cross-platform stuff, Wii U for Nintendo stuff. And PCs have mod support, and generally (not including League of Legends...) more mature players. No twelve-year-olds screaming about what they did to my mother.

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GamerJunkie

32. Posted:

There are a ton of games nowadays that are great and if you only play on Nintendo you are missing out on a golden age of gaming right now. I play a ton of games from PC, tablet, Nintendo right now. Had a PS3/360 but sold them years ago as I wasnt buying anything on them(PC has the ones I wanted that they had but cheaper and better online and with keyboard/mouse).

Even on tablet/phone there are outstanding games of every genre and many of them 100% free.

The non-Nintendo gamers miss out on a lot less than the ones that only play Nintendo consoles.

If you miss mario and zelda games its a shame as they are great, but missing all the non-nintendo ones on pc, tablets and other platforms is really a lot more of a shame.

GamerJunkie

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Innit

33. Posted:

There's a significant misunderstanding on your part.

Not really.

The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms /snip / is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS'

..isn't hard to understand, it's just nonsense. If you want to tell yourself otherwise… enjoy.

You're right about the irony of peripherals on a Nintendo forum though, even if my brother's flight rig would disagree. My box of Wii plastic is … large. Cheap in comparison though.

I don't think it's fair to generalize PC gamers as people who sit in their parent's basement playing Dear Esther on their $15,000 PC purely to brag about the polygon count to their unfed cat.

Well then you should stop doing so.

Innit

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skywake

34. Posted:

Innit wrote:

The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms /snip / is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS'

..isn't hard to understand, it's just nonsense. If you want to tell yourself otherwise… enjoy.

You (deliberately) cut out the bit where I said "in terms of game styles" which was a way of saying genres that can exist on PC but not console because of the different controls. Which is why I followed up with a couple of genres that fit that description. PC gamers can dabble in the occasional strategy game and some get into MMOs while console gamers can't. That's about the only real difference between the types of games they enjoy.

As far as accessories go you're carving out a niche and assuming it applies to all gamers. Not all gamers are into racing/flight sims. Again this goes back to the fact that PC games can cater to extremely niche markets while consoles can't. The average PC gamer is into the same games, often literally the same games these days, that console gamers play. The only big difference is that PCs get RTS and MMOs while consoles generally don't. If Zelda was on PC I doubt PC gamers would turn their nose up because it was a "Nintendo game".

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Innit

35. Posted:

You (deliberately) cut out the bit where I said "in terms of game styles" which was a way of saying genres that can exist on PC but not console because of the different controls. Which is why I followed up with a couple of genres that fit that description. PC gamers can dabble in the occasional strategy game and some get into MMOs while console gamers can't. That's about the only real difference between the types of games they enjoy.

Oh. Well it was open and only for brevity.

Here, I put it back for you.

The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms in terms of game styles is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS games when consoles don't.

No, I disagree. Still. Because style means more than that to me.

But I guess it just comes down to what registers as different enough.

With PC gaming I think the actual experience of multiplayer is different, the forum destinations are different, the playing environment is nearly always different, the purchase cycles are different, the spectator scenario is completely different, the communities are different, the magazines and publications are different, the exclusives are different, from game to game, rig to rig, the same gaming product can end up being different. Hell, the fundamental fluid nuts and bolts that make up the platform-as-business-model-are-different. So yeah, I see PC gaming as a different beast to console gaming.

On balance, the fact that a section of gamers enjoy both doesn't change any of that. I like chocolate milk and beer.

The co-opting of PC gaming elements - where possible - by consoles doesn't change any of that.

And your silly strawman argument attempting to paint me as a generalising PC hater doesn't change any of that.

Edited on by Innit

Innit

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skywake

36. Posted:

@Innit
I don't know why you're trying to construct this argument. I was simply making the point that with a few exceptions (MMO/RTS in particular) the "style" of game PC gamer and console gamers enjoy are largely the same. If you look at the topic of this thread and my original post in response to yours you'll realise that this is about the types of games people want to play. Nothing more.

Which was why I took issue with your claim that you "don't like playing games at a desk". It's not as simple as that and I think that you're missing the point. I also think this recent point about the places they go to discuss gaming being different again misses the point. They specific places are different, the platforms are different and the business model of the hobby is different... but it's all to the same end. At the end of the day we all walk into a shop either physically or via some virtual shop front, purchase our content and play largely the same games.

as for your strawman claim... I never said you were a PC gaming "hater". I just said you were wrong to say the that there's this massive gap between the two communities. We really do like the same content, enjoy the same hobby and do it for exactly the same reasons.

Edited on by skywake

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Captain_Balko

37. Posted:

GamerJunkie wrote:

If you miss mario and zelda games its a shame as they are great, but missing all the non-nintendo ones on pc, tablets and other platforms is really a lot more of a shame.

I take issue with this. It is true that I only own Nintendo systems, but I constantly play on other systems while with friends. And I'll have fun playing assorted shooters with my pals, but I don't feel like I'm missing much. They're the kind of games that I can play for a few hours once in a while, but would rather not play on a daily basis. For that, I have Nintendo. People aren't only missing Mario and Zelda, without Nintendo, they're missing fantastic games from fantastic series such as Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Pokemon, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong Country, and much much more. What am I missing on PC? I can't think of any game right now on PC (other than Minecraft and League of Legends, which I have on my average laptop) that would quench my appetite for gaming more than any of the Nintendo games I've mentioned here. And I scoff at "tablet" gaming. I have a tablet, and I've downloaded a whole bunch of games on it. What do I see most of the time? Cheap cash grabs, micro-transactions, in game ads that are unavoidable, terrible control schemes (touch screen with no buttons makes Jack a dull boy), and generally crappy casual games that make me want to weep for this generation. Oh, but you'll say there are always diamonds in the rough? But what if that rough is so awful and vomit-inducing that it isn't worth finding the diamonds at all?

Captain_Balko

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WingedSnagret

38. Posted:

Captain_Balko wrote:

GamerJunkie wrote:

If you miss mario and zelda games its a shame as they are great, but missing all the non-nintendo ones on pc, tablets and other platforms is really a lot more of a shame.

I take issue with this. It is true that I only own Nintendo systems, but I constantly play on other systems while with friends. And I'll have fun playing assorted shooters with my pals, but I don't feel like I'm missing much. They're the kind of games that I can play for a few hours once in a while, but would rather not play on a daily basis. For that, I have Nintendo. People aren't only missing Mario and Zelda, without Nintendo, they're missing fantastic games from fantastic series such as Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Pokemon, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong Country, and much much more. What am I missing on PC? I can't think of any game right now on PC (other than Minecraft and League of Legends, which I have on my average laptop) that would quench my appetite for gaming more than any of the Nintendo games I've mentioned here. And I scoff at "tablet" gaming. I have a tablet, and I've downloaded a whole bunch of games on it. What do I see most of the time? Cheap cash grabs, micro-transactions, in game ads that are unavoidable, terrible control schemes (touch screen with no buttons makes Jack a dull boy), and generally crappy casual games that make me want to weep for this generation. Oh, but you'll say there are always diamonds in the rough? But what if that rough is so awful and vomit-inducing that it isn't worth finding the diamonds at all?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Ganondwarf

39. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Innit wrote:

I can understand it - the thread title - because it's an inverted version of my opinion.
I don't play games sat at a desk. Never have, never will. I work at a desk.
I respect PC games, but not enough to go play them. I probably wouldn't go online to post about it though - this topic is just here.

I don't think it's as simple as that. The only games that don't exist on PCs are console exclusives and there aren't any genres skipped over. The only main difference between the two "types" of platforms in terms of game styles is the fact that PCs get MMORPGs and RTS games when consoles don't. Ontop of that "PC gamers" have often come from console gaming when they were younger and frequently own portable consoles.

They're basically the only gamers outside of the console wars :)

They're defiantly not outside the console wars my friends who play PC give me shit everyday about owning a wii u I even utter the name wii u and insults start flying wii u outdated, wii u gay, wii u is for kids! pc gamers are the worse.

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skywake

40. Posted:

but they'll usually have that same view about every console ;)

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