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Topic: Is this bad news for the Wii U?

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Sean_Aaron

81. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

The Wii U could not do most of what I described anywhere near as efficiently as a console that taps into the Cloud.

Nintendo is simply not Cloud ready. User accounts are tied to hardware, Nintendo's servers seems to operate more slowly than any other server I've ever used (may or may not be an exaggeration, it takes twice as long to download the same amount on the Wii U as the PS3 though - I'm assuming load is the issue). There's no commercial partnerships with Cloud infrastructure providers.

Sony and Microsoft are both making it brutally clear that Cloud is their focus. Their next consoles may well spell the end for home consoles, but they will be Cloud-focused consoles.

I wasn't saying the Wii U could do these things now, I'm saying it doesn't matter. The Wii U has a proper upgradable OS now, so if it's desirable they can add it later, no big deal. iOS didn't have cloud functionality until version 5, remember? Microsoft and Sony won't have some kind of edge over Nintendo if they do cloud stuff out of the box and frankly I don't see it being a game-changer anyway.

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Bankai

82. Posted:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

Bankai wrote:

The Wii U could not do most of what I described anywhere near as efficiently as a console that taps into the Cloud.

Nintendo is simply not Cloud ready. User accounts are tied to hardware, Nintendo's servers seems to operate more slowly than any other server I've ever used (may or may not be an exaggeration, it takes twice as long to download the same amount on the Wii U as the PS3 though - I'm assuming load is the issue). There's no commercial partnerships with Cloud infrastructure providers.

Sony and Microsoft are both making it brutally clear that Cloud is their focus. Their next consoles may well spell the end for home consoles, but they will be Cloud-focused consoles.

I wasn't saying the Wii U could do these things now, I'm saying it doesn't matter. The Wii U has a proper upgradable OS now, so if it's desirable they can add it later, no big deal. iOS didn't have cloud functionality until version 5, remember? Microsoft and Sony won't have some kind of edge over Nintendo if they do cloud stuff out of the box and frankly I don't see it being a game-changer anyway.

Nintendo's problem with offering Cloud services isn't on the Wii U end. It's on the other side of the pipes.

You're right. iOS didn't have Cloud functionality until version 5. It took Apple, a company about 10 times the size of Nintendo and with masses more resources, that long to get its own already-advanced infrastructure ready for Cloud services.

Nintendo counts a somewhat improved online shopping experience as a win for its progress with digital offerings. Apple was doing that a decade ago.

Sony and Microsoft are both offering Cloud services already. I'll bet my house that both consoles will make the Cloud a focal point - perhaps even more so than the actual specs, and it will give both companies a solid five years head start on any Cloud services Nintendo ends up offering.

None of this is to suggest Nintendo is going to be outdated and so on. But, again, if Nintendo is able to offer a console that preferences features over power, to assume that Sony and Microsoft wont is underestimating both companies (or just being a fanboy, though I assume that's not the case with you specifically, Sean).

Game developers have barely scratched the surface of what they can do with Cloud. I don't think it's wise to assume that it won't fundamentally offer some new game experiences. People did that when Nintendo suggested using two screens simultaneously for a handheld console.

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Suicune

83. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

Shrapmo wrote:

@Sony_70
Look at this dudes name. Does that not SCREAM troll? That was a trick question, it totally screams troll.

Actually my name comes from the fact that I used to troll Sony a lot.

Also saying that Microsoft as a Publisher is about quantity while has some truth to it is pretty asinine.

If Microsoft lacked quality they wouldn't have multiple games up for the Dice Awards.

Halo 4
Fez
Mark of the ninja
Dance Central 3
Forza Horizon
Trials Evolution
Dust an Elysian Tale
Mine craft
Kinect + fitness

Microsoft when it comes to Xbox live arcade game has a high Quantity of release which every developer honestly should have. On the retail front not so much but most of their games in both retail and XBLA are highly rated.

Since when was Minecraft a Microsoft game? Trials is RedLynx and originally a flash game, and Fez isn't a Microsoft property because it's going to other platforms.

Xbox is so successful for one reason and one reason only: Teenagers and college kids buying FPS', Skyrim, and Assassins Creed.
(Playstation's not bad though, wish i could play Ni no Kuni)

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Suicune

84. Posted:

Also, Cloud stuff is a bunch of crap. Remember floppy disks?

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Bankai

85. Posted:

Suicune wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Shrapmo wrote:

@Sony_70
Look at this dudes name. Does that not SCREAM troll? That was a trick question, it totally screams troll.

Actually my name comes from the fact that I used to troll Sony a lot.

Also saying that Microsoft as a Publisher is about quantity while has some truth to it is pretty asinine.

If Microsoft lacked quality they wouldn't have multiple games up for the Dice Awards.

Halo 4
Fez
Mark of the ninja
Dance Central 3
Forza Horizon
Trials Evolution
Dust an Elysian Tale
Mine craft
Kinect + fitness

Microsoft when it comes to Xbox live arcade game has a high Quantity of release which every developer honestly should have. On the retail front not so much but most of their games in both retail and XBLA are highly rated.

Since when was Minecraft a Microsoft game? Trials is RedLynx and originally a flash game, and Fez isn't a Microsoft property because it's going to other platforms.

Microsoft published all those games on the Xbox.

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Bankai

86. Posted:

Suicune wrote:

Also, Cloud stuff is a bunch of crap. Remember floppy disks?

What? Cloud has nothing to do with floppy disks.

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luisesteban

87. Posted:

in several pages do read a lot of complaints about those hypothetical specs, calling them crappy, weak or things like that.

luisesteban

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SCAR392

88. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Suicune wrote:

Also, Cloud stuff is a bunch of crap. Remember floppy disks?

What? Cloud has nothing to do with floppy disks.

Kinda does. You clould essentially bring data with you where ever without bringing your whole computer.

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Bankai

89. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

Bankai wrote:

Suicune wrote:

Also, Cloud stuff is a bunch of crap. Remember floppy disks?

What? Cloud has nothing to do with floppy disks.

Kinda does. You clould essentially bring data with you where ever without bringing your whole computer.

No. That is not how Cloud works. You don't "bring" anything with you at all. You just access anything you like, from any compatible device you like.

If you want a primitive example of Cloud, don't look at floppy disks, look at webmail. Hotmail is more like a Cloud service than and disc will ever be.

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skywake

90. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Why not, say, an RPG on the console, and then when you're out and about on your phone you could do minigames for experience or the like? Or a platformer where you design levels on the tablet, which is a better platform for user generated content? Or an AR type game where you use your phone's GPS data or location data from photos you take to feed back to your console which then alters the in-game experience? Imagine a fitness game that kept track of the walking routes you take, or a mystery game that requires you to visit physical locations to track down clues?

There are all kinds of new game experiences that Cloud technology can enable, with the kinds of GPSes, wireless connectivity, cameras, and other features that pop up in devices these days. All it takes is some creative developers, not powerful processors.

umm.... why can't the Wii U do this... oh there's more?

Bankai wrote:

The Wii U could not do most of what I described anywhere near as efficiently as a console that taps into the Cloud.

Nintendo is simply not Cloud ready. User accounts are tied to hardware, Nintendo's servers seems to operate more slowly than any other server I've ever used (may or may not be an exaggeration, it takes twice as long to download the same amount on the Wii U as the PS3 though - I'm assuming load is the issue). There's no commercial partnerships with Cloud infrastructure providers.

yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry. The Wii U can do all of these things period. As can the 3DS the Vita the iPhone the 360, PS3, Wii... anything with an internet connection really. None of the stuff you described was real time and the vast majority of it would be a few hundred KBs of data tops. None of the things you mentioned are not possible on the Wii U as is and some (level editing) would work better on the Wii U than they would with a cloud service anyways.

Bankai wrote:

Nintendo doesn't get to have the monopoly on consoles that emphasise features more than power. I don't see why there's this hypocracy here. People also don't care about big whopping touch screens in the middle of their controllers, or motion controls for that matter - until you inspire them to care about it. Neither of those features were by nature "tied" to hardware either.

Well actually "by their nature" they are tied to hardware. Ignoring for a second that you physically have to buy new hardware to get these features anyway lets focus on the Wii U GamePad. The Wii U has a proprietary 5Ghz WiFi card in there specifically for communicating with the GamePad. Presumably because the standard 2Ghz band wasn't high bandwidth enough. I'll give you a little bit more room and assume the proprietary stuff doesn't matter and that what does matter is bi-directional ~40/40Mbps.

Immediately the original Wii is out of the race because all it has is USB2. There is no addon that would enable the Wii U GamePad to work on the Wii as well as it does on the Wii U because it lacks the bandwidth. You could do it on the 360/PS3 but you'd have to connect your console to your wireless router via an ethernet cable and trust that your router was good enough. And you'd have to be within the Wii U GamePad distance limit from your router rather than the console itself. So it really is tied to the hardware.

Now compare that to cloud features which require nothing but an internet connection and not a very fast one for a lot of the features. These are things the Wii could do with a firmware update. Hell these are things a developer could have done on the GameCube if they had thought it was worth the effort at the time. So I don't buy your argument that Nintendo has to worry about their competitors bringing this stuff up... when they are more than capable of doing the same in the blink of an eye.

Edited on by skywake

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kkslider5552000

91. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Fez and Dust are fantastic, I wish more publishers would fund wonderful download projects like those.

Dust is breathtaking. One of the best games this gen and sorely underappreciated.

The game's look kinda reminded me of Muramasa, so I'm pretty much required to get it at some point. Looks like a pretty cool thing.

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SCAR392

92. Posted:

I think Nintendo's doing a smart thing by not updating their specs so fast. If Sony/Microsoft are gonna push UHDTVs and crazier gadgets to happen, I would say that's a good thing overall for everyone, and even more the consumer to have nearly an infinite amount of buying options. I feel like companies now adays are more willing to go all out with their stuff since they're pretty much selling WAY better stuff for the same amount of money as a old model from the 80's. They like to advance gadgets, that's why they're in the business. I'm 100% sure my A/V reviever I have now would have costed 1000's even in the early years of 2000.

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kkslider5552000

93. Posted:

You know, I'm not surprised that Nintendo isn't into the most advanced tech. Apparently this all comes down to Gunpei Yokoi's philosphy, I believe it's called "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology". Basically meaning that they avoid using the newest most expensive technology so much and instead use cheaper technology that's been around for a little while and try something new with it that's fun. I'm amazed I never knew about this until a few months ago considering how Nintendo has basically been defined by this since the DS.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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SCAR392

94. Posted:

Nintendo could just snap their fingers and be "in sync" with anything PS4/Xbox 1080 releases as soon as it comes out if they wanted. That's not Nintendo's way though. Once PS4/Xbox 1080 come out in a year or 2, Nintendo will see what the outcome is and make decisions of their own based on that. If PS4/Xbox 1080 are successful and reasonably push tech further, I'm sure Nintendo will follow suit with eqaul or slightly better tech, just like they did with Wii U.

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abINC4L

95. Posted:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

You know, I'm not surprised that Nintendo isn't into the most advanced tech. Apparently this all comes down to Gunpei Yokoi's philosphy, I believe it's called "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology". Basically meaning that they avoid using the newest most expensive technology so much and instead use cheaper technology that's been around for a little while and try something new with it that's fun. I'm amazed I never knew about this until a few months ago considering how Nintendo has basically been defined by this since the DS.

This is actually how Nintendo has operated before they entered the gaming industry. While it wasn't obvious with the NES and SNES, it was very apparent with the GameBoy since it easily swatted down the GameGear and Atari Lynx. Of course this didn't apply to everything Nintendo made, like the Virtual Boy and the Gamecube, so when Nintendo took this philosophy to the max, they ended up with the DS and Wii and BAM! Success!

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SCAR392

96. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

Bankai wrote:

Suicune wrote:

Also, Cloud stuff is a bunch of crap. Remember floppy disks?

What? Cloud has nothing to do with floppy disks.

Kinda does. You clould essentially bring data with you where ever without bringing your whole computer.

No. That is not how Cloud works. You don't "bring" anything with you at all. You just access anything you like, from any compatible device you like.

If you want a primitive example of Cloud, don't look at floppy disks, look at webmail. Hotmail is more like a Cloud service than and disc will ever be.

I know how cloud works. It makes rain... Haha.
Seriously though, Nintendo's not gonna add cloud. People already come on here asking how to get their Wii U online. Alot of people are up to date with gadgets, me being one, but I don't need cloud at all, and if they can make stuff actually better by omitting it, then so be it.

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Chrono_Cross

97. Posted:

The only bad news for Wii U, is it not getting a multiplatform release of Devil May Cry.

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SCAR392

98. Posted:

abINC4L wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

You know, I'm not surprised that Nintendo isn't into the most advanced tech. Apparently this all comes down to Gunpei Yokoi's philosphy, I believe it's called "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology". Basically meaning that they avoid using the newest most expensive technology so much and instead use cheaper technology that's been around for a little while and try something new with it that's fun. I'm amazed I never knew about this until a few months ago considering how Nintendo has basically been defined by this since the DS.

This is actually how Nintendo has operated before they entered the gaming industry. While it wasn't obvious with the NES and SNES, it was very apparent with the GameBoy since it easily swatted down the GameGear and Atari Lynx. Of course this didn't apply to everything Nintendo made, like the Virtual Boy and the Gamecube, so when Nintendo took this philosophy to the max, they ended up with the DS and Wii and BAM! Success!

They expanded control in those consoles though. They still took steps forward to make those consoles. Touch and motion controls have been around for along time, but making it easily accessible to a consumer is another. I used to have a '89 Buick that had a factory installed touch screen.

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abINC4L

99. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

abINC4L wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

You know, I'm not surprised that Nintendo isn't into the most advanced tech. Apparently this all comes down to Gunpei Yokoi's philosphy, I believe it's called "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology". Basically meaning that they avoid using the newest most expensive technology so much and instead use cheaper technology that's been around for a little while and try something new with it that's fun. I'm amazed I never knew about this until a few months ago considering how Nintendo has basically been defined by this since the DS.

This is actually how Nintendo has operated before they entered the gaming industry. While it wasn't obvious with the NES and SNES, it was very apparent with the GameBoy since it easily swatted down the GameGear and Atari Lynx. Of course this didn't apply to everything Nintendo made, like the Virtual Boy and the Gamecube, so when Nintendo took this philosophy to the max, they ended up with the DS and Wii and BAM! Success!

They expanded control in those consoles though. They still took steps forward to make those consoles. Touch and motion controls have been around for along time, but making it easily accessible to a consumer is another. I used to have a '89 Buick that had a factory installed touch screen.

I know that, the philosophy does refer to taking existing tech and finding new ways of utilizing it.

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Bankai

100. Posted:

yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry. The Wii U can do all of these things period. As can the 3DS the Vita the iPhone the 360, PS3, Wii... anything with an internet connection really. None of the stuff you described was real time and the vast majority of it would be a few hundred KBs of data tops. None of the things you mentioned are not possible on the Wii U as is and some (level editing) would work better on the Wii U than they would with a cloud service anyways.

Nintendo can't even get the user accounts into the Cloud.

Even if the Wii U is Cloud ready (and it has all the bits required to make that happen, agreed). Even if Nintendo's infrastructure is ready (I doubt it, given that it barely offers an online shopping experience on par with the iTunes from ten years ago). Nintendo, the company, with the executives and the people working inside those brick walls, is not ready to offer Cloud services.

Sony and Microsoft already are. Early mover advantage. Simple reality. If Nintendo is going to offer Cloud services, it is going to be playing catch up. If it has no plans to do so, then Sony and Microsoft's consoles have an advantage over Nintendo's that has nothing to do with the hardware specs that produce the graphics, which seems to be the only thing people think Microsoft and Sony work on.

Just like the GamePad is an advantage to the Wii U that has nothing to do with hardware specs over the PS3 and Xbox 360.

when they are more than capable of doing the same in the blink of an eye.

Then you don't understand how businesses operate, if you think that. Adopting a Cloud offering requires a corporation to be culturally ready for it, and prepared to make some massive investments to transition to a different business model. I was at an internal Microsoft conference four (or possibly five, I forget which) years ago, and they were talking up this Cloud "journey" for years before the public started hearing the rhetoric or we started seeing more advanced applications. Sony's been moving towards Cloud services since Stringer took the company over, and a great deal of the financial burden it ended up with had to do with the organisational restructure that was required to get all of the business working towards the unified platform that is needed to leverage Cloud.

Nintendo could not just turn on random Cloud services tomorrow. It could start working towards them, but if Nintendo is to start offering serious Cloud services, it's years away yet. That's a business reality more than a technology one.

Edited on by Bankai

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