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Topic: Is there anything wrong with Nintendo using mostly a cartoony style?

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Bolt_Strike

CanisWolfred wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Define "wrong". Wrong from a sales perspective or wrong from a quality perspective? Because it's right for quality but wrong for sales.

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For the most part anyway.

Bolt_Strike

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Blast

I would like Nintendo to try some very crisp graphics with their next console just to see what would happen.

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Jacob717

iKhan wrote:

I'm actually taking a course on animation right now, and I think I'm starting to understand the origins of that. Originally, animation wasn't really used to tell a story as much as it was used for the novelty of moving art. Eventually the idea came about that you had to have as much insane action as possible to entertain the audience. I think this kind of set animation on a path such that it was more associated with children, a group that can be more consistently entertained with visual gags.

Actually animation for the most part in the 1920s to the 1950s were for adults as they were shown in front of movies. Then the television came and people tried making animation for television, but television shows were cheap back then, so a lot of cartoons in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were of very low quality, and adults assumed that since they were cheap that it was just for kids. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDarkAgeOfAnimation

Jacob717

iKhan

Dipper723 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

I'm actually taking a course on animation right now, and I think I'm starting to understand the origins of that. Originally, animation wasn't really used to tell a story as much as it was used for the novelty of moving art. Eventually the idea came about that you had to have as much insane action as possible to entertain the audience. I think this kind of set animation on a path such that it was more associated with children, a group that can be more consistently entertained with visual gags.

Actually animation for the most part in the 1920s to the 1950s were for adults as they were shown in front of movies. Then the television came and people tried making animation for television, but television shows were cheap back then, so a lot of cartoons in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were of very low quality, and adults assumed that since they were cheap that it was just for kids. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDarkAgeOfAnimation

Oh I know that they appealed broad audiences in early years. What I'm saying though is that the goals of animation of that time set up the medium to appeal mostly to children in later years.

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Melkac

Lower sales...

You just need to compare Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time's sales with...any other Zelda game, really.
There are Nintendo games that work better with a certain art style:
-Mario, Kirby, Animal Crossing? Cartoony art styles, obviously (lol imagine a realistic kirby).
-Metroid, F-Zero, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem? Realistic art styles (hell, Other M had a slightly more cartoony style compared to the rest of the series and the designs looked like s*** compared to Prime).
-Zelda, Punch-Out!!, Donkey Kong, Star Fox? Both. These games ('cept Punch-Out!!, which is stuck between realistic and cartoony) have had more success with a realistic art style. Twilight Princess vs. Skyward Sword, Star Fox vs. Assault and 643D, Donkey Kong Country vs. Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze...

Personally I'm getting tired of cel-shaded Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, Zelda U...I want something new, dammit! Stop worrying so much about whether or not they'll look good in the next 20 years, Miyamoto! THEY WILL.

Melkac

CanisWolfred

Melkac wrote:

Personally I'm getting tired of cel-shaded Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, Zelda U...I want something new, dammit! Stop worrying so much about whether or not they'll look good in the next 20 years, Miyamoto! THEY WILL.

Because Ocarina of Time's original visuals aged so well: Untitled
Untitled
Untitled

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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Kaze_Memaryu

Nope. I think Nintendo got a very good balance between cartoonish and stylized games by now. They still cater to children for the most part, but don't ignore the older audience, even if their games aren't outright mature-only games.

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kkslider5552000

Melkac wrote:

You just need to compare Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time's sales with...any other Zelda game, really.

That's not entirely fair. Twilight Princess was a Wii launch title and OOT is one of the most beloved and significant games of its generation (and was immediately treated by everyone as such). Wind Waker did incredibly well for a GCN game.

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CaviarMeths

Melkac wrote:

Lower sales...

You just need to compare Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time's sales with...any other Zelda game, really.

Ocarina of Time was a revolutionary game that sold as such. It is credited to this day as a game that changed the way video games are made. It was a tremendously successful game and became the permanent high water mark in sales for the series. It's possible that no Zelda game will ever outsell it, and that has nothing to do with the art direction. Compare that to Final Fantasy VII. It was also a game-changer for the series, came out around the same time, and has not been exceeded in sales since.

And come on, Twilight Princess was a launch title for the fastest selling video game console of all time and heavily pandered to the kids who grew up with Ocarina of Time and were now older teens. Using FF as a comparison again, Twilight Princess is the Final Fantasy X of the series. Both FFX and TP haven't been exceeded in sales for their series since.

Melkac wrote:

Metroid, F-Zero, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem? Realistic art styles (hell, Other M had a slightly more cartoony style compared to the rest of the series and the designs looked like s*** compared to Prime).

F-Zero and Fire Emblem both look very, very much like manga/comic books. Character models in Xenoblade are also very stylized in a manga/anime style.

Melkac wrote:

Zelda, Punch-Out!!, Donkey Kong, Star Fox? Both. These games ('cept Punch-Out!!, which is stuck between realistic and cartoony) have had more success with a realistic art style. Twilight Princess vs. Skyward Sword, Star Fox vs. Assault and 643D, Donkey Kong Country vs. Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze...

...You consider Donkey Kong Country and Star Fox realistic looking games?

Edited on by CaviarMeths

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CM30

Not for games that work well with it. I wouldn't a super realistic Mario, Pokemon or Kirby game.

But Nintendo really needs to consider using more realistic graphics for games that would benefit from such. LIke say, Metroid, the Legend of Zelda or F-Zero.

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DefHalan

CM30 wrote:

Not for games that work well with it. I wouldn't a super realistic Mario, Pokemon or Kirby game.

But Nintendo really needs to consider using more realistic graphics for games that would benefit from such. LIke say, Metroid, the Legend of Zelda or F-Zero.

I feel like realistic graphics would actually take away from those games experiences. I like the style that the Prime series had for Metroid. Twilight Princess is probably the most "realistic" Zelda I would like to see. F-Zero I don't have much of an opinion on.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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Bolt_Strike

DefHalan wrote:

I feel like realistic graphics would actually take away from those games experiences. I like the style that the Prime series had for Metroid. Twilight Princess is probably the most "realistic" Zelda I would like to see. F-Zero I don't have much of an opinion on.

I don't see the harm in making Metroid more realistic.

Bolt_Strike

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DefHalan

Bolt_Strike wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I feel like realistic graphics would actually take away from those games experiences. I like the style that the Prime series had for Metroid. Twilight Princess is probably the most "realistic" Zelda I would like to see. F-Zero I don't have much of an opinion on.

I don't see the harm in making Metroid more realistic.

In my opinion trying to give Metroid a more realistic art style would make the creatures look more gruesome and frightening. While that may not sound that bad it will remove a lot of potential buyers. That is just an opinion but all this is until we actually see something from Nintendo.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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CaviarMeths

DefHalan wrote:

In my opinion trying to give Metroid a more realistic art style would make the creatures look more gruesome and frightening. While that may not sound that bad it will remove a lot of potential buyers. That is just an opinion but all this is until we actually see something from Nintendo.

While maybe not outright horror, I think a Metroid inspired by notable horror authors/artists would be interesting. Samus getting shipwrecked on a Lovecraftian planet complete with cultists and crawling chaos would be... intense.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

HollywoodHogan

Not really, but since third parties aren't releasing many (if any) realistic-style games on Nintendo consoles, the balance of titles are definitely leaning towards being all cartoony, which can put people off.

As of now I only have a Wii U and I am missing playing the grittier and violent games I enjoyed last gen.

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Bolt_Strike

DefHalan wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I feel like realistic graphics would actually take away from those games experiences. I like the style that the Prime series had for Metroid. Twilight Princess is probably the most "realistic" Zelda I would like to see. F-Zero I don't have much of an opinion on.

I don't see the harm in making Metroid more realistic.

In my opinion trying to give Metroid a more realistic art style would make the creatures look more gruesome and frightening. While that may not sound that bad it will remove a lot of potential buyers. That is just an opinion but all this is until we actually see something from Nintendo.

Well Metroid is supposed to give off somewhat of a horror vibe, so that's not really an issue.

Bolt_Strike

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CaviarMeths

MasterBlaster wrote:

Not really, but since third parties aren't releasing many (if any) realistic-style games on Nintendo consoles, the balance of titles are definitely leaning towards being all cartoony, which can put people off.

As of now I only have a Wii U and I am missing playing the grittier and violent games I enjoyed last gen.

While there's definitely far more cartoony games on the Wii U, there's still more gritty, violent games on it than I could finish in a year.

And of the 25 retail games I own for Wii U:

  • 10 are rated E/E10
  • 7 are rated T
  • 8 are rated M
  • 7 are 1st party
  • 18 are 3rd party

It's really not so dire. The biggest problem that Nintendo has with M rated games and 3rd parties is that people either pretend they don't exist or don't buy them. Hell, the Wii U launched with the new Call of Duty, the new FIFA and Madden, the new NBA2K, and the new Assassin's Creed, even brand new 3rd party, M-rated IP, but nobody cared.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

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DefHalan

Bolt_Strike wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I feel like realistic graphics would actually take away from those games experiences. I like the style that the Prime series had for Metroid. Twilight Princess is probably the most "realistic" Zelda I would like to see. F-Zero I don't have much of an opinion on.

I don't see the harm in making Metroid more realistic.

In my opinion trying to give Metroid a more realistic art style would make the creatures look more gruesome and frightening. While that may not sound that bad it will remove a lot of potential buyers. That is just an opinion but all this is until we actually see something from Nintendo.

Well Metroid is supposed to give off somewhat of a horror vibe, so that's not really an issue.

I don't think Gruesome and Horror go hand in hand. I like Horror and Mystery elements in Metroid, I don't think a realistic art style is needed for the game and I don't think it would improve the game at all. I think the style used in the Prime series is a good style for Metroid.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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