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Topic: Is Nintendo really using a form of Blu-ray for Wii U games?

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NX01Trekkie1992

61. Posted:

WaveBoy wrote:

When Nintendo confirms that Wii U Games will be 1080p and not '720p' I'll be happy. But deep down I know they're going to cop out and go 720p....Which would be another step back considering most HDTV's are 1080p in this day and age, so you'd think Nintendo would opt for that. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

http://wiiu.nintendolife.com/news/2011/06/fact_sheet_wii_u_10...

waiting was over June 7th :P

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ImDiggerDan

62. Posted:

Most HD games on other systems run at 720p, in my experience. When it comes to more detail and less pixels or less detail and more pixels, devs usually go for more detail.

I expect the Wii, like most other consoles these days, will be able to output in a variety of resolutions and it'll be up to the devs to choose what is best for their games. Even the Vita will output at resolutions lower than the screen res and even the humble DS could, to some degree.

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NX01Trekkie1992

63. Posted:

ImDiggerDan wrote:

Most HD games on other systems run at 720p, in my experience. When it comes to more detail and less pixels or less detail and more pixels, devs usually go for more detail.

I expect the Wii, like most other consoles these days, will be able to output in a variety of resolutions and it'll be up to the devs to choose what is best for their games. Even the Vita will output at resolutions lower than the screen res and even the humble DS could, to some degree.

This is true, also, I believe that even the PS3 (which is the only system on the market capable in and of itself of outputting in 1080p) only outputs full HD on bluray playback and select games

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WaveBoy

64. Posted:

Just because it says the Wii U supports 1080p doesn't mean that the games will be 1080p. It's basically confirming that the Wii U menu is in1080p in this case haha. :p

I'm hoping they're not mostly 720p, while a few like in the PS3's case are in fact 1080HD. I just want a native res damnit. :p

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NX01Trekkie1992

65. Posted:

worst comes to worse, a lot of TVs can upscale, 360 can't output higher than 720 but if you have the right tv, full HD experience

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shingi_70

66. Posted:

WaveBoy wrote:

Just because it says the Wii U supports 1080p doesn't mean that the games will be 1080p. It's basically confirming that the Wii U menu is in1080p in this case haha. :p

I'm hoping they're not mostly 720p, while a few like in the PS3's case are in fact 1080HD. I just want a native res damnit. :p

oh I expect Nintendo to have full 1080p at 60fps. If i recall the Demo's were running at that resolution.

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skywake

67. Posted:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I agree with tendoboy. We're moving towards digitally downloadable games. As for when it happens, Skywake, is sooner than you think. It will happen when the major publishers decide it's going to be more profitable to do it.

The tipping point is expected to be 2015-2020, depending on who you speak to. I tend to side with the party who thinks 2015.

As I said, and kinda exaggerated, on the previous page

skywake wrote:

The big problem with that argument is that we aren't quite there yet. If we get to 2020 and most of us are downloading 100GB games over our 100Mbps internet connections to consoles that have 10TB SSDs then sure, downloadable wins.

I didn't say I didn't think it was happening, I just said I think the era of "downloadable only" was further away than people think. 2015? Probably too soon but maybe, 2020? Yeah, I'd be pretty surprised if it's not at least expected by then. By then most should be able to connect to their 100Mbps 'nets to download multi-GB games to their multi-TB solid state disks. Moore's Law, in 2020 a 4TB SSD will cost the same as a 60GB SSD does now and at the same time for the cost of a 4GB 3DS cartridge now you could get a 256GB cartridge in 2020.

Now before this magical 2020 date we could easily have two whole new console generations. The Wii U will be 2012, the next XBox and PS will probably launch before 2015. All of those consoles will almost certainty still have physical media to fall back on. Lets face it, even in Australia where we're aggressively upgrading broadband infrastructure most will still be on ADSL2 speeds in 2015 (either by choice or because they're unlucky). If we still want our 35GB epics AND we want to download them a large proportion of the market will be waiting 10 hours before they can play. Meanwhile that 4GB "3DS" cartridge will be pushing 32GB so there is time for cartridges to catch up.

2020 is a while away and I don't think it's wise to rule out physical media still playing a part even in 2020. 2015 is the generation we're going to see next, you expect that generation to be downloadable only? If you think it'll be a hybrid kinda thing then yeah, but we're kinda there already, aren't we? At some point along that line I think cartridges would be a viable media for games.

....... either way we should end up at the same place. No optical disks, quiet consoles, fast game load times and the eventual disappearance of physical media.

Edited on by skywake

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LordTendoboy

68. Posted:

skywake wrote:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

@skywake
PSP Go did poorly, but iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android devices, etc. have all flourished with downloadable games. One device's failure (PSP Go) doesn't mean there is no market for downloadable games. There are dozens of other devices that are doing it well (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android).

There's a difference between buying 99c games like Angry Birds online and full retail games like Skyward Sword. I do think there is a market and I do think we're heading in that direction but I think people tend to think it'll come sooner than it actually will.

True, there is a difference. But Microsoft offers full Xbox 360 disc-based games online, and apparently that service is doing well since they keep adding more games every month. And look at Steam. That entire service is based on digital distribution of full-size games.

Clearly there is a market, just not all the console manufacturers are ready for it yet (Nintendo).

Edited on by LordTendoboy

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LordTendoboy

69. Posted:

YashaTheSlayer wrote:

worst comes to worse, a lot of TVs can upscale, 360 can't output higher than 720 but if you have the right tv, full HD experience

Yes the 360 can output higher than 720p. Microsoft updated the firmware a year after the console launched, if I remember correctly.

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LordTendoboy

70. Posted:

YashaTheSlayer wrote:

ImDiggerDan wrote:

Most HD games on other systems run at 720p, in my experience. When it comes to more detail and less pixels or less detail and more pixels, devs usually go for more detail.

I expect the Wii, like most other consoles these days, will be able to output in a variety of resolutions and it'll be up to the devs to choose what is best for their games. Even the Vita will output at resolutions lower than the screen res and even the humble DS could, to some degree.

This is true, also, I believe that even the PS3 (which is the only system on the market capable in and of itself of outputting in 1080p) only outputs full HD on bluray playback and select games

True, and the games that do output in 1080p have a notification on the back of the box, usually in the same area as the # of players, hard drive requirements, etc.

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LordTendoboy

71. Posted:

ImDiggerDan wrote:

When it comes to more detail and less pixels or less detail and more pixels, devs usually go for more detail.

Wouldn't more detail automatically mean more pixels? You need more pixels to display more detail.

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LordTendoboy

72. Posted:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy. We're moving towards digitally downloadable games. As for when it happens, Skywake, is sooner than you think. It will happen when the major publishers decide it's going to be more profitable to do it.

Considering the major publishers are making all the investments in digital these days, considering retailers insist on fighting with publishers and cannibalizing the publishers margin with the second hand market, and considering that more and more of the people who spend money on games are the ones with fast Internet connections, and all the incentives are there in the world for publishers to go digital.

The tipping point is expected to be 2015-2020, depending on who you speak to. I tend to side with the party who thinks 2015.

Used game sales cannibalizing publishers? Oh give me a break. People have every right to trade in games they don't play anymore, and buy used if they can't afford new.

Does this same complaint happen with the movie industry, auto industry, home appliance industry, etc? No. People have the right to do whatever they want with the products they buy. If I want to trade in a game for store credit or a different game, I will.

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Kagamine

73. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy. We're moving towards digitally downloadable games. As for when it happens, Skywake, is sooner than you think. It will happen when the major publishers decide it's going to be more profitable to do it.

Considering the major publishers are making all the investments in digital these days, considering retailers insist on fighting with publishers and cannibalizing the publishers margin with the second hand market, and considering that more and more of the people who spend money on games are the ones with fast Internet connections, and all the incentives are there in the world for publishers to go digital.

The tipping point is expected to be 2015-2020, depending on who you speak to. I tend to side with the party who thinks 2015.

Used game sales cannibalizing publishers? Oh give me a break. People have every right to trade in games they don't play anymore, and buy used if they can't afford new.

Does this same complaint happen with the movie industry, auto industry, home appliance industry, etc? No. People have the right to do whatever they want with the products they buy. If I want to trade in a game for store credit or a different game, I will.

i can't decide who to agree with but i will say that i NEVER under any circumstances buy used games unless they are last gen. so i guess i don''t think used sales are much of a problem. I would have to go with pirating being a bigger problem, but God knows that will never end...

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skywake

74. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

True, there is a difference. But Microsoft offers full Xbox 360 disc-based games online, and apparently that service is doing well since they keep adding more games every month. And look at Steam. That entire service is based on digital distribution of full-size games.

Clearly there is a market, just not all the console manufacturers are ready for it yet (Nintendo).

I'm not disputing that there is a market for it I'm just saying that it's not the WHOLE market yet. That something like Metal Gear Solid isn't an impulse download and buy like Angry Birds and that it'll be a while before the majority of gamers are comfortable with 10-25GB+ downloads. Some people are already there and are even willing to wait hours for the game to download but many are not.

When the waiting for downloads and quota panic is gone for the majority of people THEN you can talk about a "downloadable only" console being imminent.

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LordTendoboy

75. Posted:

skywake wrote:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

True, there is a difference. But Microsoft offers full Xbox 360 disc-based games online, and apparently that service is doing well since they keep adding more games every month. And look at Steam. That entire service is based on digital distribution of full-size games.

Clearly there is a market, just not all the console manufacturers are ready for it yet (Nintendo).

I'm not disputing that there is a market for it I'm just saying that it's not the WHOLE market yet. That something like Metal Gear Solid isn't an impulse download and buy like Angry Birds and that it'll be a while before the majority of gamers are comfortable with 10-25GB+ downloads. Some people are already there and are even willing to wait hours for the game to download but many are not.

When the waiting for downloads and quota panic is gone for the majority of people THEN you can talk about a "downloadable only" console being imminent.

Well personally I would hate to have a "downloadable-only" console. I can't stand waiting for Steam games to download, and PS3 downloads are SO SLOW. Options are good; leave the download stuff to small games like those found on XBLA and iOS, and have the big games on disc & cartridge.

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BenAV

76. Posted:

I wouldn't want games to be download only as sometimes I have problems getting my Internet to work properly and the last thing I want is to not be able to buy games due to my Internet not working.
And if you're going to end up with 50 or even 100+ full retail games on your system, wouldn't that require quite a bit of storage space?

Oh, and going off to the shop to buy my new game and reading the booklet on my way home on the train is always an exciting experience.

Edited on by BenAV

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skywake

77. Posted:

tendoboy1984 arguing with himself:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Microsoft offers full Xbox 360 disc-based games online, and apparently that service is doing well since they keep adding more games every month. And look at Steam. That entire service is based on digital distribution of full-size games.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Options are good; leave the download stuff to small games like those found on XBLA and iOS, and have the big games on disc & cartridge.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

But now that the cost of cartridges / flash-cards has gone down do you think home consoles will go back to using them? Doubt it, since the future seems to be heading towards "download-only".

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Well personally I would hate to have a "downloadable-only" console. I can't stand waiting for Steam games to download, and PS3 downloads are SO SLOW.

.........

Edited on by skywake

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LordTendoboy

78. Posted:

skywake wrote:

tendoboy1984 arguing with himself:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

If cartridges are a bad idea then why do the DS, 3DS, and Vita all put their games on flash cards?

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Options are good; leave the download stuff to small games like those found on XBLA and iOS, and have the big games on disc & cartridge.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

But now that the cost of cartridges / flash-cards has gone down do you think home consoles will go back to using them? Doubt it, since the future seems to be heading towards "download-only".

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Well personally I would hate to have a "downloadable-only" console. I can't stand waiting for Steam games to download, and PS3 downloads are SO SLOW.

.........

Oh ha ha ha that's so funny.

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NX01Trekkie1992

79. Posted:

skywake wrote:

tendoboy1984 arguing with himself:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Microsoft offers full Xbox 360 disc-based games online, and apparently that service is doing well since they keep adding more games every month. And look at Steam. That entire service is based on digital distribution of full-size games.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Options are good; leave the download stuff to small games like those found on XBLA and iOS, and have the big games on disc & cartridge.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

But now that the cost of cartridges / flash-cards has gone down do you think home consoles will go back to using them? Doubt it, since the future seems to be heading towards "download-only".

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Well personally I would hate to have a "downloadable-only" console. I can't stand waiting for Steam games to download, and PS3 downloads are SO SLOW.

.........

pfffffhahahahahahahahahahaha

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Bankai

80. Posted:

Oh good. The world's about to return to normal

Used game sales cannibalizing publishers? Oh give me a break. People have every right to trade in games they don't play anymore, and buy used if they can't afford new.

tendoboy, you're a sweetheart and all, but you really need to learn some comprehension. I never said anything whatsoever about end user rights. The publishers are having their sales cannibalised by the used game market. This is a problem between publisher and retailer. The end user is completely irrelevant. That's a fact. Publishers, being businesses requied by business ethics to make profits, are going to find ways to fight back against that.

Hello digital downloads.

Does this same complaint happen with the movie industry, auto industry, home appliance industry, etc? No. People have the right to do whatever they want with the products they buy. If I want to trade in a game for store credit or a different game, I will.

Good for you. Keep hurting the market that entertains you. It's also so completely irrelevant to what I was saying that it baffles me that anyone could make that connection.

As for the other entertainment industries, you're damn right they try and find ways to minimise the impact of second hand retail sales and trading. It's called iTunes, and in music (and increasingly, movies), downloads have gone well over the tipping point where it becomes the dominant way to consume media in the consumer mindset.

I didn't say I didn't think it was happening, I just said I think the era of "downloadable only" was further away than people think. 2015? Probably too soon but maybe, 2020? Yeah, I'd be pretty surprised if it's not at least expected by then. By then most should be able to connect to their 100Mbps 'nets to download multi-GB games to their multi-TB solid state disks. Moore's Law, in 2020 a 4TB SSD will cost the same as a 60GB SSD does now and at the same time for the cost of a 4GB 3DS cartridge now you could get a 256GB cartridge in 2020.

Now before this magical 2020 date we could easily have two whole new console generations. The Wii U will be 2012, the next XBox and PS will probably launch before 2015. All of those consoles will almost certainty still have physical media to fall back on. Lets face it, even in Australia where we're aggressively upgrading broadband infrastructure most will still be on ADSL2 speeds in 2015 (either by choice or because they're unlucky). If we still want our 35GB epics AND we want to download them a large proportion of the market will be waiting 10 hours before they can play. Meanwhile that 4GB "3DS" cartridge will be pushing 32GB so there is time for cartridges to catch up.

2020 is a while away and I don't think it's wise to rule out physical media still playing a part even in 2020. 2015 is the generation we're going to see next, you expect that generation to be downloadable only? If you think it'll be a hybrid kinda thing then yeah, but we're kinda there already, aren't we? At some point along that line I think cartridges would be a viable media for games.

....... either way we should end up at the same place. No optical disks, quiet consoles, fast game load times and the eventual disappearance of physical media.

You're talking about things purely from a technological point of view, which is fine, but the business interest of publishers is going to see this tipping point hit far earlier than that.

What's going to happen is this - once the tipping point comes (2015, I'll bet my house on it), the audience for digitally downloadable games up to let's say 10GB (if not cloud gaming), will be big enough that publishers can be successful enough with it that they don't need to bother with the retail release. When you get up to 10GB you're looking at games that are essentially blockbusters (God of War, for instance, was a 9.8GB download), so the point of releasing games to retail dimishes greatly in the eyes of the publishers.

That will start a snowball rolling down a hill. The really big blockbusters will continue to see retail releases (Call of Duty), but with fewer games being released to retail, retailers start to struggle to make ends meet, and close down. This reduces the number of retail games to be sold, and publishers see less and less point going through the pain to release games to what becomes a niche audience. Prices for those games that are released to retail go up, and fewer people buy those games.

This is already happening. There are publishers that are becomming mainstream, and very, very profitable with a very small or nonexistent retail presence (Paradox Interactive, Popcap). Other publishers are simultaneously releasing the big games to download as well as retail (EA). The percentage of the market buying games digitally is increasing, rapidly.

The next two generations of consoles will likely feature some form of physical media. Especially Nintendo, because Nintendo likes to pretend it's in an era where digital downloads aren't much more than Angry Birds. But it will be secondary. The market mindset will move to digital downloads from 2015 onwards.

Edited on by Bankai

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