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Topic: Is Nintendo really using a form of Blu-ray for Wii U games?

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LordTendoboy

41. Posted:

bub166 wrote:

SteveW wrote:

I'm not convinced we would need anything more than a DVD drive. Any space used over 9 gigs is just going to be used for cut scenes anyway and I'd rather play the game than watch a movie...

You've never played a game like Metal Gear Solid or Mass Effect, then. I see your point, but video games can be a great vessel for amazing stories. Amazing stories generally require cut scenes.

You forgot about the Uncharted games. :) Great stories in those, with quality voice acting and amazing animation.

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skywake

42. Posted:

TTGlider wrote:

Anyway. Iwata has already said, to paraphrase, that "adding Bluray would make the console more expensive, and we don't think it's worth the cost as many consumers already have devices to play that media in their home." Simple. The question has been answered already by the head man, and I tend to take it at face value.

Sounds like he's talking about playback of Blu-Ray media rather than support of the disk format. We know it's going to be the size of a Blu-Ray disk, it would make sense for them to use the Blu-Ray tech to do that like they did with the DVD format on the Wii (which Sony also has a share in BTW). With that said, that doesn't mean it will support Blu-Ray movie disks.

Which doesn't bother me because I already have a Blu-Ray player. They cost something like $100 now so... meh...

tendoboy1984 wrote:

No. Don't go back to game cartridges. Use flash memory cards instead (like DS game cards, PS Vita game cards, SD cards, Memory Sticks, etc.).

Yes, don't go back to cartridges, use cartridges instead....

Edited on by skywake

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LordTendoboy

43. Posted:

skywake wrote:

TTGlider wrote:

Anyway. Iwata has already said, to paraphrase, that "adding Bluray would make the console more expensive, and we don't think it's worth the cost as many consumers already have devices to play that media in their home." Simple. The question has been answered already by the head man, and I tend to take it at face value.

Sounds like he's talking about playback of Blu-Ray media rather than support of the disk format. We know it's going to be the size of a Blu-Ray disk, it would make sense for them to use the Blu-Ray tech to do that like they did with the DVD format on the Wii (which Sony also has a share in BTW). With that said, that doesn't mean it will support Blu-Ray movie disks.

Which doesn't bother me because I already have a Blu-Ray player. They cost something like $100 now so... meh...

tendoboy1984 wrote:

No. Don't go back to game cartridges. Use flash memory cards instead (like DS game cards, PS Vita game cards, SD cards, Memory Sticks, etc.).

Yes, don't go back to cartridges, use cartridges instead....

Bulky game cartridges and flash cards are different...

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shingi_70

44. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

skywake wrote:

TTGlider wrote:

Anyway. Iwata has already said, to paraphrase, that "adding Bluray would make the console more expensive, and we don't think it's worth the cost as many consumers already have devices to play that media in their home." Simple. The question has been answered already by the head man, and I tend to take it at face value.

Sounds like he's talking about playback of Blu-Ray media rather than support of the disk format. We know it's going to be the size of a Blu-Ray disk, it would make sense for them to use the Blu-Ray tech to do that like they did with the DVD format on the Wii (which Sony also has a share in BTW). With that said, that doesn't mean it will support Blu-Ray movie disks.

Which doesn't bother me because I already have a Blu-Ray player. They cost something like $100 now so... meh...

tendoboy1984 wrote:

No. Don't go back to game cartridges. Use flash memory cards instead (like DS game cards, PS Vita game cards, SD cards, Memory Sticks, etc.).

Yes, don't go back to cartridges, use cartridges instead....

Bulky game cartridges and flash cards are different...

Again that would cost a lot of money.

Edited on by shingi_70

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skywake

45. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

skywake wrote:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

No. Don't go back to game cartridges. Use flash memory cards instead (like DS game cards, PS Vita game cards, SD cards, Memory Sticks, etc.).

Yes, don't go back to cartridges, use cartridges instead....

Bulky game cartridges and flash cards are different...

They're really not. Try and find a definition for "cartridge" that covers old carts but not the more modern carts. You COULD argue that the difference is that the old cartridges allowed you to directly address the card but firewire did the same and USB doesn't so... would that mean that a USB thumb drive is "flash" while a firewire thumb drive would be a "cartridge"?

As far as I'm concerned they're both fast, solid state storage with a "large" section of read only storage and a small section of writable storage. The fact that modern carts don't have battery backed storage for the writable part doesn't really change much definition wise IMO.

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LordTendoboy

46. Posted:

skywake wrote:

As far as I'm concerned they're both fast, solid state storage with a "large" section of read only storage and a small section of writable storage. The fact that modern carts don't have battery backed storage for the writable part doesn't really change much definition wise IMO.

If cartridges are a bad idea then why do the DS, 3DS, and Vita all put their games on flash cards?

Edited on by LordTendoboy

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Bankai

47. Posted:

why?

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kkslider5552000

48. Posted:

wynaut?
Untitled

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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skywake

49. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

skywake wrote:

As far as I'm concerned they're both fast, solid state storage with a "large" section of read only storage and a small section of writable storage. The fact that modern carts don't have battery backed storage for the writable part doesn't really change much definition wise IMO.

If cartridges are a bad idea then why do the DS, 3DS, and Vita all put their games on flash cards?

I don't see any reason to not call them cartridges, that was my only point. They're a packaged thing that you can take in and out of the machine. Saying the DS doesn't use cartridges because it's "flash" would be like saying the PS3 doesn't use disks because it's "Blu-Ray". Good to see you agree now.

And I never said cartridges were a bad idea, I said they were a good idea. Not only that but when I've brought up this topic before I have pointed to the DS/3DS/Vita in support of my argument for bringing back cartridges and dumping optical media. Cost per GB is the only reason not to do it.....

tendoboy1984 wrote:

And why are SD cards and Memory Sticks so popular? Why are SSDs becoming more popular?

Because solid state storage is getting cheaper. Same reason why 3DS games can be almost the size of Wii games, why 8GB thumbdrives can be brought for pocket change and why even low end PCs come with 4GB of RAM.

Edited on by skywake

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LordTendoboy

50. Posted:

skywake wrote:

I don't see any reason to not call them cartridges, that was my only point. They're a packaged thing that you can take in and out of the machine. Saying the DS doesn't use cartridges because it's "flash" would be like saying the PS3 doesn't use disks because it's "Blu-Ray". Good to see you agree now.

And I never said cartridges were a bad idea, I said they were a good idea. Not only that but when I've brought up this topic before I have pointed to the DS/3DS/Vita in support of my argument for bringing back cartridges and dumping optical media. Cost per GB is the only reason not to do it.....

Publishers started using discs because they hold much more data than cartridges and they didn't have to make expensive chipsets for each game that was produced. Less hardware to manufacture = more money saved; and it's much easier to press a disc than to manufacture the chipsets for a game cartridge.

But now that the cost of cartridges / flash-cards has gone down do you think home consoles will go back to using them? Doubt it, since the future seems to be heading towards "download-only".

And to be fair, all handhelds have used cartridges (except for the PSP obviously), so they never really went anywhere.

Edited on by LordTendoboy

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skywake

51. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Publishers started using discs because they hold much more data than cartridges and they didn't have to make expensive chipsets for each game that was produced. Less hardware to manufacture = more money saved; and it's much easier to press a disc than to manufacture the chipsets for a game cartridge.

Well yeah, but... oh wait.. I'll let you say that bit...

tendoboy1984 wrote:

But now that the cost of cartridges / flash-cards has gone down

So yeah, costs of solid state ROM storage has gone down so the one (and only) advantage of disks is shrinking

tendoboy1984 wrote:

do you think home consoles will go back to using them?

Maybe, it's making more and more sense as time goes by and that's kinda what I've been arguing for the last two pages. I guess their only obstacle is... oh wait... you answered your own question again.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

the future seems to be heading towards "download-only".

Well yeah, that one. The big problem with that argument is that we aren't quite there yet. If we get to 2020 and most of us are downloading 100GB games over our 100Mbps internet connections to consoles that have 10TB SSDs then sure, downloadable wins. Depends on how fast we head in that direction but I'm not going to be predicting the date given how poorly the PSP Go did. I guess it's also a bit like CDs or DVDs and Blu-Ray, people can buy them all online and most have the hardware to do so but many CHOOSE to stick with the physical media.

Oh, and you can't wrap up a digital copy of something for little Johnny in his stocking for Christmas. So there's that.

tendoboy1984 wrote:

And to be fair, all handhelds have used cartridges (except for the PSP obviously), so they never really went anywhere.

....... I wonder where

tendoboy1984 wrote:

Bulky game cartridges and flash cards are different...

went.......

Edited on by skywake

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LordTendoboy

52. Posted:

@skywake

PSP Go did poorly, but iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android devices, etc. have all flourished with downloadable games.

One device's failure (PSP Go) doesn't mean there is no market for downloadable games. There are dozens of other devices that are doing it well (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android).

Sony overpriced their digital software, and that $250 launch price didn't help either. But I'm glad the Vita and 3DS are using physical cartridges and downloadable software, it's the best of both worlds.

Edited on by LordTendoboy

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Ernest_The_Crab

53. Posted:

@skywake It's all really conjecture at this point but based on Nintendo's general business practices, it is very likely that the disc for the Wii U will not be a true Blu Ray disc. Size-wise it might be but for the sake of argument (and to avoid paying licensing fees) it won't be considered BluRay in any other respect.

There's a link to a Wikipedia page on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_optical_disc

This is Wikipedia though so take it with a grain of salt.

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skywake

54. Posted:

tendoboy1984 wrote:

@skywake
PSP Go did poorly, but iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android devices, etc. have all flourished with downloadable games. One device's failure (PSP Go) doesn't mean there is no market for downloadable games. There are dozens of other devices that are doing it well (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Android).

There's a difference between buying 99c games like Angry Birds online and full retail games like Skyward Sword. I do think there is a market and I do think we're heading in that direction but I think people tend to think it'll come sooner than it actually will.

TheSolarKnight wrote:

@skywake It's all really conjecture at this point but based on Nintendo's general business practices, it is very likely that the disc for the Wii U will not be a true Blu Ray disc. Size-wise it might be but for the sake of argument (and to avoid paying licensing fees) it won't be considered BluRay in any other respect.

TBH I don't think it matters too much. If "true Blu-Ray" means "it plays movies" then I agree 100% but the title of this topic is "a form of Blu-Ray" which I think is more than likely. I'd go as far as to say that I'd be surprised if it doesn't given it's been reported it DOES use "Blu-Ray" disks.

And the Sony licencing thing doesn't figure into that at all because, as I said before on this topic, Sony has a joint patent on DVDs. Did that stop Nintendo using that disk tech for the Wii AND GC? Why would that suddenly be an issue now? Why would they care? They wouldn't.

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Bankai

55. Posted:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy. We're moving towards digitally downloadable games. As for when it happens, Skywake, is sooner than you think. It will happen when the major publishers decide it's going to be more profitable to do it.

Considering the major publishers are making all the investments in digital these days, considering retailers insist on fighting with publishers and cannibalizing the publishers margin with the second hand market, and considering that more and more of the people who spend money on games are the ones with fast Internet connections, and all the incentives are there in the world for publishers to go digital.

The tipping point is expected to be 2015-2020, depending on who you speak to. I tend to side with the party who thinks 2015.

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shingi_70

56. Posted:

Digital will still only be a option. Data Caps and the U.S. poor internet placement will make sure that doesn't happen. It will continue to be optional at best. You also have to factor in Flash Memory and HDD prices.

Its sad but its the reality.

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James

57. Posted:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy.

This thread just imploded.

I am not ignoring you. I just do not post much.

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NX01Trekkie1992

58. Posted:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy.

Holy crap... I think I think I just saw a flock of flying pigs over the football stadium outside my window too...

YellowChocobo wrote:

We're moving towards digitally downloadable games. As for when it happens, Skywake, is sooner than you think. It will happen when the major publishers decide it's going to be more profitable to do it.

Considering the major publishers are making all the investments in digital these days, considering retailers insist on fighting with publishers and cannibalizing the publishers margin with the second hand market, and considering that more and more of the people who spend money on games are the ones with fast Internet connections, and all the incentives are there in the world for publishers to go digital.

The tipping point is expected to be 2015-2020, depending on who you speak to. I tend to side with the party who thinks 2015.

well, I do think it will happen somewhat soon, but I feel 2015 is a little too early, if I had to guess, I'd say 2018 at the earliest, 2022 by the latest, but that's just me, I could very well be wrong, I think the main concern is simply that going all digital with a big name game (like say Skyward Sword, just as an example, or MW3, any game really), is that even though the game would still sell well, there would still be SOME dip in the profits, due to those few individuals out there who still don't have a strong enough internet that they can download an entire game of that length in a reasonable amount of time.

My anticipation is that switching over to all digital will probably come in stages, we've already seen it to a degree in PC gaming with platforms such as Steam, since almost every desktop PC nowadays has an internet connection strong enough to download games (with a few exceptions), it's a good place for the industry to use as sort of a testing ground for digital distributions. Add in the fact that almost every PC game on the market today requires an internet connection to even install the game to begin with as an anti-piracy measure anyway, and PC just seems (to me anyway) the ideal platform for trailblazing digital only distributions. I think we'll start to see SOME digital only software within the next 5-6 years, but I'm anticipating, as I said earlier, 2018 at the earliest before it would become an industry standard on PCs, and 2020 before it becomes the standard on consoles. As I also said earlier though, I'm no expert, and could EASILY be wrong

Edited on by NX01Trekkie1992

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NX01Trekkie1992

59. Posted:

James wrote:

YellowChocobo wrote:

I can't believe I'm doing this...

I agree with tendoboy.

This thread just imploded.

I'm pretty sure that a certain flaming place just froze over, want to go ice skating James?

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WaveBoy

60. Posted:

When Nintendo confirms that Wii U Games will be 1080p and not '720p' I'll be happy. But deep down I know they're going to cop out and go 720p....Which would be another step back considering most HDTV's are 1080p in this day and age, so you'd think Nintendo would opt for that. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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