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Topic: Is it important that every next gen release runs at 1080p and 60 fps?

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GuSolarFlare

61. Posted:

@Phatosaurus wow that's really cool! and looking 60FPS along with 30FPS(side by side) in this site shows how much difference exists(I could neve imagine it was such a big difference! :O )

Edited on by GuSolarFlare

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SCAR392

62. Posted:

The point is that what's going on on the display doesn't always move fast anyway, I think. Wind Waker HD @ 30FPS looks like 60FPS, because it's not moving any faster than that.
The frames are still shown on the display. but what frames you see could be different from what someone else sees. Just imagine by the chance that I see the "copied" frame of a 30FPS game and you see the original frame that happens before the extra frame runs on the display again. It's just a matter of what frames you see out of those 60, whether they are the repeat or original frames.

Look at a game like Tekken Tag 2. They have motion blur for in game character models, and it makes it looks better than without. The game is denying the framerate of the display and matching what your eyes would actually see. That's just my take on it. I'm not an eye doctor.

The only way motion blur would look unnecessary is if you can actually see faster than the display or content is allowing you to.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DFbNn3YpWM&feature=html5_3d

EDIT2: So yes, more frames do matter to an extent if you take gadgets seriously. You won't see every frame unless you can see faster/better than other people. You will see some of the frames, but never in full sequence(one to the next, to the next, etc).

Edited on by SCAR392

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Phatosaurus

63. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

The point is that what's going on on the display doesn't always move fast anyway, I think. Wind Waker HD @ 30FPS looks like 60FPS, because it's not moving any faster than that.
The frames are still shown on the display. but what frames you see could be different from what someone else sees. Just imagine by the chance that I see the "copied" frame of a 30FPS game and you see the original frame that happens before the extra frame runs on the display again. It's just a matter of what frames you see out of those 60, whether they are the repeat or original frames.

Look at a game like Tekken Tag 2. They have motion blur for in game character models, and it makes it looks better than without. The game is denying the framerate of the display and matching what your eyes would actually see. That's just my take on it. I'm not an eye doctor.

The only way motion blur would look unnecessary is if you can actually see faster than the display or content is allowing you to.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DFbNn3YpWM&feature=html5_3d

EDIT2: So yes, more frames do matter to an extent if you take gadgets seriously. You won't see every frame unless you can see faster/better than other people. You will see some of the frames, but never in full sequence(one to the next, to the next, etc).

That's not making a whole lot of coherent sense to me. If you're just trying to say 60FPS isn't important in every game, then I agree with you.
Also youtube doesn't playback 60FPS content so that video is bunk.

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SCAR392

64. Posted:

@Phatosaurus
It's still a fair comparison, obviously. Like I said, it's ok to vary, because peoples' eyesights differ. I don't know anyone who can see a full 60FPS in one cycle.

EDIT: BTW, they slowed the video down to a lower frame count than 30FPS. 20% of 30 is 6.

Edited on by SCAR392

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PokeTune

65. Posted:

60 fps? Yes. 1080P? No.

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Undead_terror

66. Posted:

Not necessarily, but no one wants it choppy frame rate either.

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SCAR392

67. Posted:

60FPS is better, but you'll only see about 24 frames during that sequence and 12 of the 60 frames will still be a repeat frame(if it is 24fps content on a 60Hz display). Like I said, it's just the off chance that you see frame #20 vs. frame #21 on a 60Hz display. You obviously wouldn't be able able to see those frames one to the next unless you can see that fast.

It technically is showing more of what's going on, but you might not see it anyway.
@ 30FPS, every frame will be doubled. You will literally have a chance to see everything at least twice. If there's othing going on between frames, then you don't need more frames, which is probably why Wind Waker HD looks like 60FPS even though it's 30.

Edited on by SCAR392

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Samurai_Goroh

68. Posted:

I notice when a game has sharp framerate drops, but apart from that I can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps. Same would go for 1080p versus 720 for most part. I just like that the game looks good and plays good, Wind Waker is 1080, 30 fps and 3D World is only 720p, 60 fps, I honestly though they were both 1080p,60fps, I'm easily fooled.

Edited on by Samurai_Goroh

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SCAR392

69. Posted:

Samurai_Goroh wrote:

I notice when a game has sharp framerate drops, but apart from that I can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps. Same would go for 1080p versus 720 for most part. I just like that the game looks good and plays good, Wind Waker is 1080, 30 fps and 3D World is only 720p, 60 fps, I honestly though they were both 1080p,60fps, I'm easily fooled.

Same here. I think it really depends on the graphics, too. A game like Mario, Pikmin, etc. won't look any better in a higher resolution unless there is actually more detail to be seen.

Mario's hat and overalls are as "basic color pallet" as you can get. Red is gonna look red, regardless. Some textures aren't that detailed, either. That's why Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate only needed a texture redo. Just imagine if they upconverted that game and left the textures as they originally were on Wii.

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MikeLove

70. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

The point is that what's going on on the display doesn't always move fast anyway, I think. Wind Waker HD @ 30FPS looks like 60FPS, because it's not moving any faster than that.
The frames are still shown on the display. but what frames you see could be different from what someone else sees. Just imagine by the chance that I see the "copied" frame of a 30FPS game and you see the original frame that happens before the extra frame runs on the display again. It's just a matter of what frames you see out of those 60, whether they are the repeat or original frames.

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Phatosaurus

71. Posted:

I'm just going to leave the frame rate discussion at this paragraph from the end of the article in the first link I posted. It'll make a lot more sense if you read the whole thing though.

"So what is "Enough fps"? I don't know, because nobody went there so far. Maybe 120fps is enough, maybe you will get headaches after 3 hours. Seeing framewise is simply not the way how the eyebrain system works. It works with a continuous flow of lightinformation. (Similar to the effects of cameras' flashlights ("red eyes"): flashing is simply not the way how we see). So there are still questions. Maybe you need as much as 4000fps, maybe less, maybe more.

The same question as for fps will arise for resolution. How many pixels can the human eye see? Does 2000x1000 (=Star Wars Episode II resolution) look like reality? Or is it just enough to make a film "cinemable"? "

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MikeLove

72. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Phatosaurus
It's still a fair comparison, obviously. Like I said, it's ok to vary, because peoples' eyesights differ. I don't know anyone who can see a full 60FPS in one cycle.

How would you even be able to know that? Have you ever even asked someone "can you see a full 60FPS in once cycle"? How would they even be able to explain to you what they see?

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shingi_70

73. Posted:

not at all. 720p/60fps is good enough for me tbh.

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MamaLuigi

74. Posted:

Yes, according to 4chan.

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scrubbyscum999

75. Posted:

All I know is that 60fps for fighting games. I know it makes a difference there.

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SCAR392

76. Posted:

FutureAlphaMale wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Phatosaurus
It's still a fair comparison, obviously. Like I said, it's ok to vary, because peoples' eyesights differ. I don't know anyone who can see a full 60FPS in one cycle.

How would you even be able to know that? Have you ever even asked someone "can you see a full 60FPS in once cycle"? How would they even be able to explain to you what they see?

I can imagine how it would be, that's why. I wouldn't be surprised if some one could see twice as good as I can, whether it be speed, clarity, etc.

It would be like if you couldn't tell where a sound is coming from, what a sound is, or you can't hear something at all. Same concept, different form of sensory.

When there are 60FPS on an HDTV, I'm aware that there are alot of frames I probably didn't even see.

Edited on by SCAR392

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MyFriendOfMisery

77. Posted:

1080p and/or 60 FPS have to sacrificed for good graphics, just the way it is. No problem with it.

Mario Kart 8 will turn out to be 720 I'm pretty sure but we'll find out in spring. Smash will be 1080/60 though but it's a fighting game. A step up from PS360 though I think.

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RogueStatus94

78. Posted:

I believe the whole resolution and frame-rate debate is for the Xbox/ Playstation guys. Nintendo fans or the majority just enjoy games for what they are.

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kkslider5552000

79. Posted:

I think after the "WIND WAKER IS TEH KIDDIES" nonsense, Nintendo fans never want to hear complaining about graphics unless absolutely necessary. I'd like to believe that anyway.

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Discostew

80. Posted:

What I prefer is consistency in frame rates. Give me consistent 60fps or 30fps. just don't give me fluctuations in between.

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