Topic: hatred

This game looks hilarious, hope it's a more enjoyable game than postal 2

edit: I hope it's SIGNIFICANTLY more enjoyable, postal 2 was just a bomb, it wouldn't be hard to do better.

Why would anyone want such a awful/crap game on any console ? it looks like doggeyoopsiepoopiepoodle. Its only saving grace its being... uhm well unconventional

Yeah not going to be playing this.

I see what they're going for and I'm interested.
Not really surprising considering that Postal 2 is in my top 20 all-time list, love that game.

It'll only be on PC for obvious reasons, and it probably will be sold through a site only (might not be able to get on Steam, but I'm not sure). But, it's one of my top three PC games to look forward to (along with Soma and Killing Floor 2), and I will more than likely be buying it day one.

Steam basically sells porn now (or at least allowed one on the site and never took it off). I don't think they'd be above this at this point. :/

I'm not sure of this game, but I'm guessing it's a visual novel.

Dating sim! But close enough.

I'm in complete favour and support of them making this game. I don't think the actual game itself will be any good and I almost definitely won't bother playing it. But its very existence raises a very interesting moral and philosophical question about the medium itself that a lot of people seem to have just ignorantly assumed the answer to.
Namely, if it can be proved that violent video games don't actually lead to real world violence (which has more or less been proved, I can marshall the relevant data if anyone's skeptical of this), why do people still have a much more aggressive moral response to the particular character of the violence. If it has no real world effect, moralising the situation is really just a misfiring of our emotional reasoning. There's nothing morally wrong about weird and twisted stuff that doesn't actually do anyone any harm.
The only genuine moral objection I can see is that we could be giving money to rather questionable and slightly twisted people. But they're probably not at all. I'm guessing they're just smart businessmen and are taking advantage of our current outrage culture in order to get free advertising (behold their incredibly success).

Dude, they have Neo-Nazi ties on Facebook.These people exist, the dev is probably legit, and they're making a game promoting their views. This isn't a joke. This is real.
I don't get why someone would want this; this makes me uncomfortable in an entirely new way.

Right, well if the actual people really are questionable, then like I said, giving them money isn't something you should do. But that's an entirely separate point from the actual character of the game itself. Which almost definitely won't cause any harm.
(also, I don't know anything about these guys at all so I could be wrong, but I'd be skeptical about that neo-nazi claim. I read the article that had made that claim and it was incredibly weak and spurious. It just stunk of a morally outraged writer desperately looking for ways to discredit them. The petition that was then created to oppose the game claimed that it showed white supremacy ideas simply because the main character is a white male and about 2 of the victims weren't. I mean c'mon. Some people are just desperate to find reason for their outrage and don't give a damn about accurately portraying people they dislike)

Thinking that media can't influence a person at all is foolish, espcially when it's intended to. That goes for all forms of it too.

The evidence on violent crime completely disagrees with that claim in this particular context. I'm not saying media can never influence a person. There are all kinds of things like types of propaganda that can be effective. But that's much more about how media is used to intersect with and manipulate culture when used by powerful governing bodies that have a monopoly on public attitudes. That's leagues away from a group of slightly weird goths making a game, the sole intent of which is probably just to get attention and money by outraging people.

While movies have the power to move people, I highly doubt this game would have any kind of impact on anyone other than forcing them to re-evaluate what they find to be fun. I could say the same for Postal (though even Postal seems to be in better tastes by not making the violence so realistic). Media is most effective at influencing people when they weave an emotional narrative, but I wouldn't say this type of game could really have much of a narrative to it. Plus, violent games allow people to vent their frustrations through means that don't involve hurting actual people. Personally, I'd take that over the alternative, though I still think there are far better ways to deal with your anger.

I'm not saying that content in media will cause violent crime, I'm saying things can have negative effects. I think the problem is that you're only thinking of how someone can be affected to the extreme.
@Caniswolfred Frankly, I don't really want to discuss the quality of propaganda right. We both agree about it not being illegal, but existing a small forgetting corner though. Regardless of the effects, this is just something disgusting.

Yeah, that's pretty gross. Easy to ignore though.

Well it's an extreme example, that's why I was considering potential extreme effects. I'm not sure what else you might suspect such a game would lead to? Bad personal hygiene?
On the face of it, I'd agree that media can have small effects on people, like maybe strengthen dangerous ideas they already happen to hold. But I think that only really becomes truly dangerous in certain cultural contexts (i.e very monolithic and closed cultures). In a free market pluralistic culture, it's almost impossible for these isolated ideas to cause any harm because they're completely drowned out by the thousands of other ideas that completely contradict them.
I think the idea of censorship, which is absolutely rampant with modern liberals, is far more dangerous in the long run. So I'm glad you at least agree they should be allowed to make the game! And I'll happily agree to stay well away from playing it and avoid giving them any financial incentive to continue down such an unsettling "artistic" vain.

@Jaz007 - I was actually agreeing that media can influence even people over time, even on a small scale. It's just that it's usually emotional narratives that people find greater meaning in, even unintentionally. Things like the impact The Hobbit has had on Fantasy genres of multiple mediums and imaginations of people in general, or how the music of the people have affected the world both in and out of music. Things like that affect people far more than any killer simulator could hope for. I highly doubt 10 years from now, people will be saying, "boy did Hatred really bring new meaning to my life!" At best, they might say, "Boy, I remember having fun playing that game for x amount of time!", assuming anyone even remembers the game years from now and it doesn't get forgotten like almost every other truly hyper-violent game out there...

I don't see why it matters - no meaning is necessary. What other people think about it matters even less.

...you missed my point entirely. I'm saying that some sort of emotional impact would be required for it to actually affect people in some meaningful way. Without that, it's just yet another hyperviolent game that'll be quickly forgotten in the annuls of history, along with the likes of Manhunt and those Mortal Kombat clones from the early 90s. Which is exactly what I expect this to be, and no harm will ultimately come from it.