Wii U Forum

Topic: Graphics, graphics, graphics

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turtlelink

21. Posted:

LordJumpMad wrote:

graphics > gameplay

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DudeSean

22. Posted:

turtlelink wrote:

LordJumpMad wrote:

graphics > gameplay

I'm hoping you guys are simply misunderstanding how to use the "greater than" and "less than" signs.

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AVahne

23. Posted:

I hear the GPU is pretty powerful, don't know where you're getting this questionable part. And even IF the next Microsoft and Sony consoles are more powerful, if they indeed using APUs, then only the most idiotic will believe they're "far more powerful" than Wii U.

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moomoo

24. Posted:

@DudeSean It's not a misunderstanding. The original post came from LJM. That's a pretty big hint.

It should be noted that if the gameplay is being hindered by graphics, as the case could be with games relying on heavy CPU use, then yes, graphics are very important. Without good capabilities in key areas, the gameplay can be heavily affected.

Edited on by moomoo

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AVahne

25. Posted:

Scollurio wrote:

Guys, guys guys....

Yes, graphics is not everything, but they should be "on par" with the next next gen which will launch in about a year with MS and Sony's new consoles.
And even if you pull your "gameplay and innovation saves the day"-card. Where is it. The gamepad is lackluster. No analogue input triggers (racing games anyone?), lackluster battery life, a touch screen thats more unresponsive than the 3Ds one, mandatory use of "off-TV" play on gamepad, framerate issues (for me personally those distract more than generally lower graphics quality), no headset jack on pro controller, bad use of gamepad in the first wave of games, "asymmetric" gamelay for me is just a bad excuse for not being able to handle 2 gamepads at once, no true 1080p yet in most games - still just upscaled 720p like in current gen consoles of MS and Sony, Nintendo account cannot be used on another console, the low SD-card memory on basic sets, etc... I just mean even in the things the WiiU should accelerate - it doesn't. Im no Nintendo hater, quite the contrary, but "asymmetric" gameplay would be possible even on old Wii, just by using different input methods and assigning different roles to the players, make it over online (so your seperate screen is no problem) and you could do that "asymmetric" gameplay anywhere. Like on PC games where one guy plays the "commander" and the rest are the 1st person field soliders (Savage anyone?). I just don't see the power, the innovation NOR the graphics. Still, if you love Nintendogames and want to play them, it's your only option. I for my part will stay with my 3DS XL (which I deeply love, even though most games, especially on eShop are trash at the moment, can't wait for MH3U though). Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah one more thing. POWER DOES matter. Even if graphics won't make a big leap with new systems of Sony and MS (and I think they WILL, I don't think it's needed but hey there are 4K-resolution displays already, don't think they will go without use with the next gaming generation and PC gamers have LONG surpassed 1080p resolution already) the general power will make a big leap, and that power means more cars on track, bigger environments, environmental destruction, better AI, more bots, better textures, etc... and it sucks for developer/nintendo/customer if it's the WiiU again that will either NOT get that precious port at all or get a lackluster port that will look like the PC version of the game with all details set to low and maybe even gameplay elements missing due to restriction of memory/processing power. In no way I can see the WiiU lasting another 5-8 years. It will be badly outgunned in about 3 years when the major 1st party titles helped it for another soar into the sky before it plummets to the ground. Reason is simple. The casual market is saturated and seperated between Wii-gamers (they already HAVE a Wii and won't see too much reason to upgrade to WiiU since they're casuals) tablet gamers and I also see the Ouya playing a big role in the future. So basicly speaking I think Nintendo is it's own biggest competition with it's Wii. Casuals won't go too much for WiiU, the "hardcore" (people that go for complex games that take longer to complete, want to participate in online matches and do see difference in texture/graphics quality, enjoy cinematic and/or clever experiences and enjoy games beyond angry birds) will possibly wait for MS and Sony delivering their next ugly baby or go PC anyways. What's left is the loyal Nintendo fans that have this only option to see their beloved mascots in HD and cross-platform gamers that won't a slice of every cake. Which all in all will be not enough to even remotely reach the success of the Wii. That's just my personal opinion without any hating and I definitely don't want to step on anybody's toes.

Touchscreen more unresponsive than the 3DS one? Either you have NEVER used a Wii U GamePad AND a 3DS, or you have a defective Gamepad.
There is also the possibility that you are an idiotic troll.
And, with the other two 8th generation consoles, there is still quite a lot of speculation. Even with the Wii U there is mostly speculation and teething problems. People should do more waiting before making judgements on a new generation. Just too bad not many people are sensible enough to do something like that, generation after generation.

Edited on by AVahne

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pixelman

26. Posted:

turtlelink wrote:

LordJumpMad wrote:

graphics > gameplay

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Discostew

27. Posted:

Of course the touchscreen can be unresponsive. The entire gamepad becomes unresponsive when you move far enough away from the console with it.

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moomoo

28. Posted:

Regarding the rumors on the other next-gen systems, I haven't heard that they'll be super powerful either. We're talking about tech that's been available from 2008 to maybe 2011. That's not drastically more powerful than stuff in the Wii U.

Quite frankly, if you want power, PC is the way to go. Consoles are outdated before they even come out in terms of graphical abilites.

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I-U

29. Posted:

As much as I like my third party games on occasion, I buy a Nintendo handheld or console for the exclusive Nintendo games. The games that are rare to feature anything below good graphics overall and are almost always excellent in the gameplay department. Graphics are the easy half to making an amazing game, the other half, gameplay, takes much more effort and a number of developers still screw it up. Gameplay is a bit more important than graphics because graphics have plenty of room to work with to be good. Tetris for instance doesn't have to look like Assassin's Creed to have good graphics, so max output isn't necessary, but both must have solid gameplay to have any hopes of being a quality experience.

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pntjr

30. Posted:

BanjoThreeie wrote:

LordJumpMad wrote:

graphics > gameplay

Sorry, not seeing it. Where's the better gameplay? NSMBU = uninspired and easy, just like the other NSMB games, nor do I want to pay 50+ dollars for a 2D platformer... Both Galaxy's as 3D platformers I was more than happy to throw my money at though, fantastic games and along with Donkey Kong Country Returns (2D but at least it was hardcore! and the graphics were very impressive for Wii) and maybe Brawl are the reasons I don't regret buying a Wii.

Nintendoland....pass

3rd-party titles that will soon disappear from the system once the PS4 and next Xbox come out and can't be ported to Wii U because Sony and Microsoft's new systems are much more powerful...pass.

I am really interested in what Retro Studios might do though, as well as that new Star Fox game and hopefully another 3D Mario.

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Unca_Lz

31. Posted:

Scollurio wrote:

Guys, guys guys....

Yes, graphics is not everything, but they should be "on par" with the next next gen which will launch in about a year with MS and Sony's new consoles.
And even if you pull your "gameplay and innovation saves the day"-card. Where is it. The gamepad is lackluster. No analogue input triggers (racing games anyone?), lackluster battery life, a touch screen thats more unresponsive than the 3Ds one, mandatory use of "off-TV" play on gamepad, framerate issues (for me personally those distract more than generally lower graphics quality), no headset jack on pro controller, bad use of gamepad in the first wave of games, "asymmetric" gamelay for me is just a bad excuse for not being able to handle 2 gamepads at once, no true 1080p yet in most games - still just upscaled 720p like in current gen consoles of MS and Sony, Nintendo account cannot be used on another console, the low SD-card memory on basic sets, etc... I just mean even in the things the WiiU should accelerate - it doesn't. Im no Nintendo hater, quite the contrary, but "asymmetric" gameplay would be possible even on old Wii, just by using different input methods and assigning different roles to the players, make it over online (so your seperate screen is no problem) and you could do that "asymmetric" gameplay anywhere. Like on PC games where one guy plays the "commander" and the rest are the 1st person field soliders (Savage anyone?). I just don't see the power, the innovation NOR the graphics. Still, if you love Nintendogames and want to play them, it's your only option. I for my part will stay with my 3DS XL (which I deeply love, even though most games, especially on eShop are trash at the moment, can't wait for MH3U though). Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah one more thing. POWER DOES matter. Even if graphics won't make a big leap with new systems of Sony and MS (and I think they WILL, I don't think it's needed but hey there are 4K-resolution displays already, don't think they will go without use with the next gaming generation and PC gamers have LONG surpassed 1080p resolution already) the general power will make a big leap, and that power means more cars on track, bigger environments, environmental destruction, better AI, more bots, better textures, etc... and it sucks for developer/nintendo/customer if it's the WiiU again that will either NOT get that precious port at all or get a lackluster port that will look like the PC version of the game with all details set to low and maybe even gameplay elements missing due to restriction of memory/processing power. In no way I can see the WiiU lasting another 5-8 years. It will be badly outgunned in about 3 years when the major 1st party titles helped it for another soar into the sky before it plummets to the ground. Reason is simple. The casual market is saturated and seperated between Wii-gamers (they already HAVE a Wii and won't see too much reason to upgrade to WiiU since they're casuals) tablet gamers and I also see the Ouya playing a big role in the future. So basicly speaking I think Nintendo is it's own biggest competition with it's Wii. Casuals won't go too much for WiiU, the "hardcore" (people that go for complex games that take longer to complete, want to participate in online matches and do see difference in texture/graphics quality, enjoy cinematic and/or clever experiences and enjoy games beyond angry birds) will possibly wait for MS and Sony delivering their next ugly baby or go PC anyways. What's left is the loyal Nintendo fans that have this only option to see their beloved mascots in HD and cross-platform gamers that won't a slice of every cake. Which all in all will be not enough to even remotely reach the success of the Wii. That's just my personal opinion without any hating and I definitely don't want to step on anybody's toes.

Except Nintendo realized that going for power was not gonna make them profit last gen, hence why they gambled with the Wii. And you know what? It paid off, so no, power does not matter in the long run. In the history of video games, the most powerful machine has rarely ever been on top (look at PS1 and 2 for example)

And also have you noticed that it's more expensive to develop for powerful systems? If Sony and Microsoft's systems took a huge leap forward with power, both the systems and games will be expensive as hell, meaning that gamers will eventually turn away from them. Look at what happened to the PS3

Edited on by Unca_Lz

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kkslider5552000

32. Posted:

the rise of indie and downloadable games, the incredible success of iOS games, the increasingly impossible to make a profit from HD games that have probably killed as many gaming companies as the bad economy, the fact that the 2 biggest new IPs of the past few years are Angry Birds and Minecraft

I'm sorry, but if you think DUDE LOK ATT DESE GRAFIX is the future of gaming, you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. The writing is on the wall for the complete domination of AAA gaming and it's basically considered fact already that next gen's power is largely not going into increased graphics.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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Unca_Lz

33. Posted:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

the rise of indie and downloadable games, the incredible success of iOS games, the increasingly impossible to make a profit from HD games that have probably killed as many gaming companies as the bad economy, the fact that the 2 biggest new IPs of the past few years are Angry Birds and Minecraft

I'm sorry, but if you think DUDE LOK ATT DESE GRAFIX is the future of gaming, you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. The writing is on the wall for the complete domination of AAA gaming and it's basically considered fact already that next gen's power is largely not going into increased graphics.

This. Nintendo's realized this and look at how most developers are reacting to Wii U. Sony and Microsoft are probably gonna struggle in this upcoming gen unless they change their policies (ironic, don't ya think?)

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SparkOfSpirit

34. Posted:

Looks back at all the companies that closed last gen

I really hope things are different this time.

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skywake

35. Posted:

It really depends on what sort of games you like. If you're into 2D platformers then we already reached what I'd call the pinnacle in Rayman Origins. Same is true of quite a few other games that push style over realism which is where Nintendo has typically sat. Wind Waker looked awesome on the Gamecube and would look even better on the Wii U but I don't think there'd be much to gain if the Wii U had more horsepower.

moomoo wrote:

Regarding the rumors on the other next-gen systems, I haven't heard that they'll be super powerful either. We're talking about tech that's been available from 2008 to maybe 2011. That's not drastically more powerful than stuff in the Wii U.

Quite frankly, if you want power, PC is the way to go. Consoles are outdated before they even come out in terms of graphical abilities.

We don't even have confirmation that the 720/PS4 will appear next year. I'm personally looking at building a new PC in the next six months or so because I haven't had an upgrade since early 2009. Even though what I'm going for will be fairly pedestrian (7770 and an i5) it'll still probably smoke their late 2013/early 2014 new piece of hardware.

Even moreso there will be experiences on the Wii U that I won't be able to do on that potential shiny new hardware. I won't be able to play the next Zelda on it even if I wanted to go the dodgy route and the GamePad is unique enough that I want to experience that as it was intended. To be honest I don't see many massive games that push the limits of visuals well beyond what the Wii U can handle not appearing on the PC.

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Burning_Spear

36. Posted:

For the people saying the graphics should be more powerful ... Would you have been willing to pay $450 or $500 for a Wii U deluxe with next-gen graphics?

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SkywardLink98

37. Posted:

CorporalPegasus wrote:

Better graphics dont make better games

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moomoo

38. Posted:

SkywardLink98 wrote:

CorporalPegasus wrote:

Better graphics dont make better games

You guys do realize they have the capability of doing so, right? Games like Mario Galaxy wouldn't have worked on the NES. By having access to better graphics, the capabilites of fulfilling the artistic visions of developers can be achieved. Stuff like AI, the amount of stuff on screen, the ability to maintain a steady framerate, etc. are reliant on graphics, and that directly affects the gameplay.

Think of your favorite games. Chances are they were among the best graphical feats on the system. My favorite game on Wii was Mario Galaxy, which outclasses pretty much everything on the system. My favorite NES series is Mega Man, which looks pretty good still, especially when compared to other games on the system. My favorite SNES game is a tie between Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger, and both were technical marvels at their times of release for that system they were on.

Yes, I understand that graphics don't automatically indicate the game is great, but chances are that if a game is great it has very good graphics.

Edited on by moomoo

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kkslider5552000

39. Posted:

skywake wrote:

It really depends on what sort of games you like. If you're into 2D platformers then we already reached what I'd call the pinnacle in Rayman Origins.
.

I wouldn't call it it the pinnacle. I mean even if you think it is, Rayman Legends is seemingly going to be a better game so...yeah. Unless you hate rhythm games, I dunno.

The graphics in Rayman Origins are pretty interesting to me. I don't like the style of the art at all, I've never been a fan of French animators' attempts at wackiness and weirdness similar to this. However, especially for a video game, it is done SO well, that I still think it looks amazing despite disliking the style. It's kinda like how games like Crysis 2 already make similar "realistic" early 360 games look bad by comparison, except Rayman has a far better chance of still being enjoyable to look at compared to whatever games will be new in 10-20 years. (note: I am not exactly one to say what graphics will still be enjoyable to look at since I'm seemingly the only one that can tolerate early 64 bit graphics)

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Chrono_Cross

40. Posted:

I actually prefer Super Mario 64's graphics over most of today's achievements. So you're not alone kkslider.

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