See the thing is the whole thread is about as the name suggests : ARE THERE ENOUGH CORE GAMERS ON WII U??? and not does the Wii U have enough Core games, Which it does as I've made it clear in the original thread itself that is why I kept asking you to go back and read.
I think @skywake was pretty clear that the question itself doesn't make much sense, as the word ''core'' is an arbitrary term that doesn't have a solid definition. Not to mention that I completely agree that it is silly to talk about games (and gamers) in terms of ''core'' and ''casual'', as if there were two sides.
I think the thread creator is confusing a few terms to be the same. Core, maturity rating, production value/costs, sales, and game rating/score are not the same thing. To say, for example, Mario Kart is not a core game is wrong, IMO.
People confuse core gamers with gamers who only buy "M" rated games. I mean, there is no real definition to the terms core and casual, except that which an individual assigns to them.
I consider myself a "core" gamer, because of various factors.
(1) I enjoy games — All types of games. Not just shooters, not just sports, not just M games, not just Nintendo games.
(2) I am knowledgable about the industry — I keep up with news, I get on message boards and fora, and I frequent video game websites.
Main stream can be core, but it doesn't have to be. Big-sellers can be core, but they don't have to be. Core gamers don't have to only like CoD or AC. Mario Kart and Smash Bros, are, in my opinion, very much hard-core games. They can be played casually, with friends, but when played in a competitive nature, they are as hard core and hard core gets.
In that sense, the thread creator is missing the point. There are core gamers on the Wii U. The issue then becomes why certain 3rd party games aren't selling/didn't sell on the Wii U. I think that boils down to quality, marketing, and a few other factors.
The fact is Mario Kart 8 is a masterpiece in every aspect: game play, art-style/direction, technically. While a game like Watch_Dogs was a mess technically, and was mediocre in game play. Nintendo put more heart and effort into MK8 than Ubi did for WD Wii U. It's as simple as that. So I don't think it's fair to blame the people who own the system and call them casual or not core enough, when really the games just don't appeal.
Mario Kart is a casual game, same as FIFA.You could have a quick pick-up play but You can't do the same with Say Elder Scrolls. You need some amount of dedicated time.but ofcourse if you liked a game to death (any game I say) you can have hours of game in a go, even in mini games. and if taken in a competitive way every game could be competitive, even farting could get competitive if it were taken in a competitive way Mario Kart is a masterpiece, so are games like Tetris, but the point is a game has to fall in category.just like a man could be good or bad though or neutral idk but has to be something right? but that is totally subjective.
See the thing is the whole thread is about as the name suggests : ARE THERE ENOUGH CORE GAMERS ON WII U??? and not does the Wii U have enough Core games, Which it does as I've made it clear in the original thread itself that is why I kept asking you to go back and read.
I think @skywake was pretty clear that the question itself doesn't make much sense, as the word ''core'' is an arbitrary term that doesn't have a solid definition. Not to mention that I completely agree that it is silly to talk about games (and gamers) in terms of ''core'' and ''casual'', as if there were two sides.
Though subjective it is not totally arbitrary term. with games like Candy Crush you can say it is a casual, the damn game has limited life after which you need to wait.even if you wanted to you cannot go on after that, Fruit ninja, you can only go on so long and things like that. you get the point? So I can tell you that games are definately Core and Casual, like it or not.
just like a man could be good or bad though or neutral idk but has to be something right?
See, that's where I think you're missing the point of what other posters are saying.
No, a man doesn't have to be good, bad, or neutral. The world doesn't work in manichaeistic terms like that. A man is simply a man, and each of his actions can be construed separately as something good or bad, depending on each person's point of view (to be fair, you did mention that this is subjective). There is no need to label things neatly when things just can't be labeled neatly.
It's the same thing with games. Why are Mario Kart and FIFA "casual" games, even though it is common for people to spend dozens of hours mastering their mechanics? That is not "casual" behaviour.
On the other hand, you can absolutely enjoy Skyrim in a more "casual" manner, enjoying the story and combat, but without bothering to explore the game's vast amount of side content (and I know at least one coworker who did just that).
This is what people have been trying to argue here. There isn't a way to neatly categorize games as "casual" or "hardcore". There just isn't. And yes, I know you started talking about gamers, not games, which in my opinion makes more sense, but fact is you have multiple times in the thread applied the same definitions to games themselves, just like you do in the post I quoted.
As for the straightest possible answer for your initial question: yes, I think there are a lot of "core" gamers on Wii U right now. What the console is obviously missing is a grasp on the more "casual" audience; the ones who will go with the flow and get the hottest new system in town. Those have been flocking mostly to the Playstation 4, and they are the ones who will make the bulk of sales when the generation is over. As much as we, as people who keep up with gaming news, tend to not realize that fact, the vast majority of video game purchases are made by people who aren't nearly as dedicated as we are.
just like a man could be good or bad though or neutral idk but has to be something right?
See, that's where I think you're missing the point of what other posters are saying.
No, a man doesn't have to be good, bad, or neutral. The world doesn't work in manichaeistic terms like that. A man is simply a man, and each of his actions can be construed separately as something good or bad, depending on each person's point of view (to be fair, you did mention that this is subjective). There is no need to label things neatly when things just can't be labeled neatly.
It's the same thing with games. Why are Mario Kart and FIFA "casual" games, even though it is common for people to spend dozens of hours mastering their mechanics? That is not "casual" behaviour.
On the other hand, you can absolutely enjoy Skyrim in a more "casual" manner, enjoying the story and combat, but without bothering to explore the game's vast amount of side content (and I know at least one coworker who did just that).
This is what people have been trying to argue here. There isn't a way to neatly categorize games as "casual" or "hardcore". There just isn't. And yes, I know you started talking about gamers, not games, which in my opinion makes more sense, but fact is you have multiple times in the thread applied the same definitions to games themselves, just like you do in the post I quoted.
As for the straightest possible answer for your initial question: yes, I think there are a lot of "core" gamers on Wii U right now. What the console is obviously missing is a grasp on the more "casual" audience; the ones who will go with the flow and get the hottest new system in town. Those have been flocking mostly to the Playstation 4, and they are the ones who will make the bulk of sales when the generation is over. As much as we, as people who keep up with gaming news, tend to not realize that fact, the vast majority of video game purchases are made by people who aren't nearly as dedicated as we are.
/thread
Was Mariobro4. No, I'm not taking off my backpack...it's important.
Looks to me like the OP doesn't want a discussion, just wants everyone to listen to their idea and agree. It also looks like people want to continue the conversation, so I say keep talking and just ignore the OP.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
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just like a man could be good or bad though or neutral idk but has to be something right?
See, that's where I think you're missing the point of what other posters are saying.
No, a man doesn't have to be good, bad, or neutral. The world doesn't work in manichaeistic terms like that. A man is simply a man, and each of his actions can be construed separately as something good or bad, depending on each person's point of view (to be fair, you did mention that this is subjective). There is no need to label things neatly when things just can't be labeled neatly.
It's the same thing with games. Why are Mario Kart and FIFA "casual" games, even though it is common for people to spend dozens of hours mastering their mechanics? That is not "casual" behaviour.
On the other hand, you can absolutely enjoy Skyrim in a more "casual" manner, enjoying the story and combat, but without bothering to explore the game's vast amount of side content (and I know at least one coworker who did just that).
This is what people have been trying to argue here. There isn't a way to neatly categorize games as "casual" or "hardcore". There just isn't. And yes, I know you started talking about gamers, not games, which in my opinion makes more sense, but fact is you have multiple times in the thread applied the same definitions to games themselves, just like you do in the post I quoted.
As for the straightest possible answer for your initial question: yes, I think there are a lot of "core" gamers on Wii U right now. What the console is obviously missing is a grasp on the more "casual" audience; the ones who will go with the flow and get the hottest new system in town. Those have been flocking mostly to the Playstation 4, and they are the ones who will make the bulk of sales when the generation is over. As much as we, as people who keep up with gaming news, tend to not realize that fact, the vast majority of video game purchases are made by people who aren't nearly as dedicated as we are.
Hmmm...subjective really subjective but I give you, you have some good points my friend but I feel Wii U still does not have enough core gamers. Whats the harm in coming with clean arguements and answers such as yours.and people here talk about irrational. I'd rather ignore the ignorants.
Ironically... I bought Mass Effect 3 on Wii U and I loved it so much that now I'm a Mass Effect fan. The only AC game I ever played was AC: Black Flag on Wii U. You're totally right when you said this... "If the system is treated as an legitimate option people will buy the games." The Wii U is still seen as a joke. A kid walking around adults.
Hmm, I'm sorry if I made it seem as if no one would jump in mid series like that, but I don't think the majority of users will switch to wiiu versions of games mid series (when the series ties together that is) when there are cheaper fuller alternatives (such as the ezio and americas trilogies on the ps360).
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What if the problem is that Nintendo isn't flooding the market fast enough? When other developers release a game and it does well you can expect a sequel in 1-3 years. Normally Nintendo only makes 1-2 games in a series per generation, meaning you could be waiting a lot longer for a new game in a series you enjoy. So without sequels coming out faster what is the reason to stay up to date on the latest Nintendo console? With a Xbox or Playstation you need to be there when the game comes out cause it will be replaced with a sequel in about a year. With Nintendo games you can wait until the end of a generation before buying all the Nintendo games and only be 1 or 2 games behind. So what if the real reason nintendo is struggling is because they aren't flooding the market enough? People complain about Nintendo lack of innovation in the Mario or Zelda series but Call of Duty still sells ridiculous numbers every year. Just a thought I felt I should put out there lol
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
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No. It was an OP trying to label games as "core" and then deem said games as "successes" or "failures" on the Wii U, which would then presumably prove some point as to the tendencies of Wii U gamers in relation to the "core" mindset.
Topping that off, to my knowledge, OP is not a market analyst, and is likely just some guy with a strong opinion like the rest of us.
Deep in my core I feel Bayonetta, Smash 4 U, and The Swapper fulfill all my core needs at the moment.
And with Nintendo we always have something to core around the corner.
You won't have to dig deep to reach some more core.
On Xbox and Playstation it's more difficult to find core games. Too many casual and kids games in an 18+ mature disguise.
I think it's worth pointing out that a discussion about whether or not there are "core gamers" on the Wii U and whether or not there are "core games which sell well" are one and the same. If there is such a thing as a game which appeals to "core gamers" then you'd expect that those are the sort of games they'd buy. Infact there would be no other way of measuring it. So instead I thought that the real question that needed to be discussed in this thread was what constitutes a "core game" because that's the shakey ground that the whole of the OP's hypothesis stood on.
Now personally I believe that if there is such a thing as a "core gamer" then surely I'm one of them. I have brought over ten games this year excluding indies across Wii U, 3DS and PC and on an average week I'll spend 15hours or so playing games. I got the Wii U because I loved Nintendo's content and I have a library of 14 or so games now also excluding indies. When I hear most people talking about the Wii U even in forums dominated by PC gamers? It's usually in that sort of content. I mean lets face it, the Wii U is and can only really be used as a game playing machine. Of course there are a lot of people on it who play a lot of games.
Also yes, of course Mario Kart is a more "casual" game. Its a hugely popular game, everyone knows about it and people can enjoy themselves without much skill. If you have a Wii U you're going to buy that game regardless. The fact that you could call it a more "casual" game doesn't automatically mean that the people who brought it were "non-core" gamers. Infact if anything I'd say that a "core gamer" would be defined by the fact that they play a large variety of games. If you're a "core gamer" and have a Wii U? No way you're going to make a habit of skipping games like Mario Kart.
.... and it so happens that the Wii U has a high tie ratio and the vast bulk of their best sellers are games for gamers. I think it's unlikely that people are buying a Wii U and only getting Nintendo Land, Wii Party U, Just Dance and Wii Fit U. I think a more typical Wii U gamer got it this year and has Mario Kart 8, New SMB U, 3D World, Smash Bros and something like Hyrule Warriors or Bayonetta 2 to fill that last spot. Why aren't they buying Watch Dogs? Well probably because a lot of them already have a 360, PS3 or PC
No. It was an OP trying to label games as "core" and then deem said games as "successes" or "failures" on the Wii U, which would then presumably prove some point as to the tendencies of Wii U gamers in relation to the "core" mindset.
Topping that off, to my knowledge, OP is not a market analyst, and is likely just some guy with a strong opinion like the rest of us.
I'm sorry but your sentence does not even make any sense and read the title of this thread it says - Are There Enough Core Gamers On Wii U? "(Opinion)" how many more people of your kind (ignorant ones) are around here? Seems many
I think it's worth pointing out that a discussion about whether or not there are "core gamers" on the Wii U and whether or not there are "core games which sell well" are one and the same. If there is such a thing as a game which appeals to "core gamers" then you'd expect that those are the sort of games they'd buy. Infact there would be no other way of measuring it. So instead I thought that the real question that needed to be discussed in this thread was what constitutes a "core game" because that's the shakey ground that the whole of the OP's hypothesis stood on.
Now personally I believe that if there is such a thing as a "core gamer" then surely I'm one of them. I have brought over ten games this year excluding indies across Wii U, 3DS and PC and on an average week I'll spend 15hours or so playing games. I got the Wii U because I loved Nintendo's content and I have a library of 14 or so games now also excluding indies. When I hear most people talking about the Wii U even in forums dominated by PC gamers? It's usually in that sort of content. I mean lets face it, the Wii U is and can only really be used as a game playing machine. Of course there are a lot of people on it who play a lot of games.
Also yes, of course Mario Kart is a more "casual" game. Its a hugely popular game, everyone knows about it and people can enjoy themselves without much skill. If you have a Wii U you're going to buy that game regardless. The fact that you could call it a more "casual" game doesn't automatically mean that the people who brought it were "non-core" gamers. Infact if anything I'd say that a "core gamer" would be defined by the fact that they play a large variety of games. If you're a "core gamer" and have a Wii U? No way you're going to make a habit of skipping games like Mario Kart.
.... and it so happens that the Wii U has a high tie ratio and the vast bulk of their best sellers are games for gamers. I think it's unlikely that people are buying a Wii U and only getting Nintendo Land, Wii Party U, Just Dance and Wii Fit U. I think a more typical Wii U gamer got it this year and has Mario Kart 8, New SMB U, 3D World, Smash Bros and something like Hyrule Warriors or Bayonetta 2 to fill that last spot. Why aren't they buying Watch Dogs? Well probably because a lot of them already have a 360, PS3 or PC
Haha and finally you are making sense maybe I should have just explained to you earlier than that , wouldn't have the useless long posts. this should really have been your initial post atleast it relates...
And yes If i had to put u in one of the two categories, I'd label you as a core gamer, judging by your first post and that is why I mentioned you in my post as a core gamer saying Im looking at you. Also what I was trying to say is that core gamers are not limited to just playing core games but also any good games of their interest (Unlike Casuals limited by their skills etc.), hence also open to any kind of good games not just one particular franchise or game and the core gamers who bought a Wii U are most likely fans of Nintendo franchises which highly influenced them getting one so they are not likely to miss any of Ninteno's big titles (Like Mario Kart) , but they would also open to any other good games found on Wii U. So games like Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101 and Pikmin, when these titles do badly, the thread's question arose. Because these titles are likely to appeal only or mostly to core gamers and when these titles did badly it means only or mostly the core Nintendo gamers bought it. So (just by this logic)
No. Of copies sold = No. Of core gamers
So if Wii U's population = 7Mil, and No. Of copies sold (Any of the title) were 300,000,
Total Wii U Population - No. Of copies Sold
7,000,000 - 300,000 = 6700000 (Which could also mean the no. Of casuals)
Now this theory is also flawed because also matter of interest and choice would come into effect but it would relatively come close or atleast the closest thing idk .On the other hand there are games like SM3DW or NSMBU these games are balanced that appeal to both which means the core Nintendo fans and casuals both can enjoy this which is why the ratio that it sells are relatively high, because both core and the casual gamers are contributing.but games like Bayonetta 2 appeal mostly only to the core gamers hence the low sales.So what really is stopping these core games from being a success on the platform ? is it the quality (which definately is not the case here I believe), Is it because the low numbers of Core gamers? I would say the latter.
What if the problem is that Nintendo isn't flooding the market fast enough? When other developers release a game and it does well you can expect a sequel in 1-3 years. Normally Nintendo only makes 1-2 games in a series per generation, meaning you could be waiting a lot longer for a new game in a series you enjoy. So without sequels coming out faster what is the reason to stay up to date on the latest Nintendo console? With a Xbox or Playstation you need to be there when the game comes out cause it will be replaced with a sequel in about a year. With Nintendo games you can wait until the end of a generation before buying all the Nintendo games and only be 1 or 2 games behind. So what if the real reason nintendo is struggling is because they aren't flooding the market enough? People complain about Nintendo lack of innovation in the Mario or Zelda series but Call of Duty still sells ridiculous numbers every year. Just a thought I felt I should put out there lol
How is Call Of Duty so popular? Please explain. Lol I'm serious.
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It became popular by being an actual good game. It keeps its popularity by coming out every year. Each year it has the possibility of being even better, so people get excited for the next release almost immediately after buying the newest CoD.
But hey, that's just a theory. A DefHalan theory lol
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
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Haha and finally you are making sense maybe I should have just explained to you earlier than that , wouldn't have the useless long posts. this should really have been your initial post atleast it relates...
I've literally been saying the same thing the whole time
[......] So games like Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101 and Pikmin, when these titles do badly, the thread's question arose. Because these titles are likely to appeal only or mostly to core gamers and when these titles did badly it means only or mostly the core Nintendo gamers bought it. So (just by this logic)
No. Of copies sold = No. Of core gamers
So if Wii U's population = 7Mil, and No. Of copies sold (Any of the title) were 300,000,
Total Wii U Population - No. Of copies Sold
7,000,000 - 300,000 = 6700000 (Which could also mean the no. Of casuals)
Now this theory is also flawed because also matter of interest and choice would come into effect but it would relatively come close or atleast the closest thing idk[....]
Of course it's flawed, you're talking nonsense. Here's another number for you:
Bayonetta on PS3 & 360: 2mill with an effective install base at ~70mill
Bayonetta 2 on Wii U: ~400k with an install base of ~7.5mill
~2.8% vs ~5.3% so what... the Wii U is "twice as core" as the PS3/360 were in late 2009?
See, this sort of stat hunting is meaningless. You can get it to say whatever you want especially when there are so many external factors. You haven't proven anything.
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Topic: Are There Enough Core Gamers On Wii U? (Opinion)
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