Cos, despite all the chit chat about "innovation" the average Nintendo user only cares about Mario and Zelda universes.... call it close minded, call it fanboysm, but even excellent games like Pikmin didn't sell extraordinary.
I would agree with this, but I wouldn't say this is limited to Nintendo gamers though. COD, FIFA and similar multi-plats are the least innovative out there and yet they sell by the truck load on PS3/4 and XB360/one. I have Pikmin 3 and it's a superb game and I also have NSMBU and yeah it's a bit stale, but still enjoyable.
Perhaps then that's what the gaming industry is; providing updates to experiences gamers know and love. Is that the developers fault or the consumer? I would say the consumer.
I don't wanna defend Ubisoft generally (they made bad s**t) but still, a company don't care too much about attach rate
I also agree with you about the profits. Unlike a studio like Platinum who create games for the love of it, Ubisoft is all about profits.
Because they will never run on the platform till big work on coding optimization/downgrading is done (due to Power Pc architecture and low WiiU specs) -> they don't sell well anyway->sells won't cover porting costs.
While the architecture is different and the Wii U specs are lower, this shouldn't stop them from creating a port. It's been done in the past and to great affect. Unfortunately developers or publishers just don't value this step or want to spend time doing it.
The first party Games Nintendo has in its is console is Core games and whatever the others have to offer are casual? Is that correct?
I never said that or even implied it. All I was saying was that this idea of dividing games into "core" and "casual" is arbitrary and also a load of BS. That the only way I see the definition of "core games" making sense is if you treated it in the same way that you would movies or music. That is to say that Radiohead's OK Computer or The Swans To be Kind are "core music listener" music while movies like Pulp Fiction and Toy Story 3 are "core movie watcher" movies. We're talking high quality, complex pieces that are well polished and do what they intend to do very well.
And in that sense? The Wii U has plenty of "core" titles. Content doesn't need to have age restrictions in order to be a masterpiece, gaming is the only media where this is accepted, it's not at all about that. With games in particular the quality of the piece is in the details like the precision of the controls or the subtle queues that tell you what to do next. A "core gamer", if there is such a thing, is constantly looking for that sort of experience. Something that is polished but also does something unexpected. Nintendo does do that very well, so there's no shortage of it on their platforms.
If you want to compress what I'm saying into a small little sentence then compress it to that. Not some nonsense about Nintendo being for "core" gamers and everyone else being casual, because I never said that. If I really thought that I wouldn't have a PC.
Good to know you can read. But the question is did you read? Still none of these explains where I've written things like SM3DW was less core compared to GTA or Smash Bros. being less core compared to SF and Mortal Kombat ? and are you still explaning how there are tons of "core" games on the Wii U.Ok will put it this way, actually I'll just copy/paste what I've written above : " And also who said anything about Wii U being a casual console. Haha where did u read that? Wii U lacked Core Games? We are talking here that the Wii U lacks Core Gamers.Does the Wii U have enough of the core gamers, not does the Wii U have enough core games.Nobody talked about Wii U not having enough core games." Hope that helped.
You keep missing his point. He is arguing, and I agree, that there is no such thing as a "core gamer." You disagree. But you have essentially had to arbitrarily create what is a core gamer and then take your definition and apply it to the Nintendo community.
Also, I think trying to break down the Nintendo gaming community is a fool's errand. I think it is a pretty diverse community. There are WiiU owners who own multiple consoles and play a little bit of everything. There are casual gamers (not sure what that term means). There are what I will call value gamers, who like family friendly content (I fall into this category, and as I have said before I would have no problem playing 3rd Party games if they knew how to be creative without all the filler. I don't think there is a studio in existence today who can or knows how...outside of Nintendo). I don't think any of those groups is less "core", "hardcore", or whatever other meaningless phrase you want to use.
I think the way "core" is being defined in this thread makes it more or less synonymous with "mainstream", not that there is anything wrong with that.
Hmmm...Still doesnt counter any of my arguements, or answer anything for that matter. Sorry bro but you're off, Like way off. I'll just say I get what you are trying to explain, and I'll respect your opinion. (y)
Did you want to create a thread just so that people would agree with you or did you want to have a discussion. I don't agree with your premise, simple as that. The Wii U has fantastic software and a high attach rate so clearly it is a system that has attracted people who play games. The best selling games on the system aren't twenty different versions of Just Dance either, the games are things like Smash Bros and Wind Waker HD. So are there "core" games, "core" gamers and do those "core" games sell on the Wii U? Clearly yes.
If you wanted to argue whether or not there's a market for more "adult" content on the Wii U? Well that would be another topic entirely. And again I don't think it's as simple as a yes/no answer. I think people buy the Wii U for different reasons than they buy an XBOne/PS4/PC, but I don't think that's nessisarily the same as saying they won't buy "mature" games. It's certainly not a "kids" console in terms of pure demographics. If you look at the age demographics for Wii U owners that Nintendo has published:
There's clearly enough people there for that sort of game something which seems obvious when you look at the success of Bayonetta 2. The vast bulk of people on the Wii U are at least old enough for that sort of game. There's also clearly a lot of people in their late 20s and early 30s happily enjoying New SMB U and not giving a crap about how "kiddie" it is. There are probably a whole chunk of people happily playing Mario games on the Wii U who have been regularly playing games since before some of the "hardcore gamers" were even born
Also, I think trying to break down the Nintendo gaming community is a fool's errand. I think it is a pretty diverse community. There are WiiU owners who own multiple consoles and play a little bit of everything. There are casual gamers (not sure what that term means). There are what I will call value gamers, who like family friendly content (I fall into this category, and as I have said before I would have no problem playing 3rd Party games if they knew how to be creative without all the filler. I don't think there is a studio in existence today who can or knows how...outside of Nintendo). I don't think any of those groups is less "core", "hardcore", or whatever other meaningless phrase you want to use.
I think the way "core" is being defined in this thread makes it more or less synonymous with "mainstream", not that there is anything wrong with that.
Personally, i like to define Core gamer as a person who is passionate and knowledgeable about gaming without seeing it as a lifestyle(knows there are more important things in life).
does not have solidarity to any brand and doesnt hate on consoles he or she doesnt have or prefer, meaning they cant be like "only Nintendo/Playstation/Xbox has good games, my favorite console is the only good one". can have preferences of course, but not be prejudicial. honestly i have seen the "Nintendo rules, anything else drools" type of gamer on Miiverse many times.
judges on game-per-game basis instead of generalising "AC Unity was a really dissapointing effort from Ubisoft, but atleast The Crew is pretty good". i seriously cringed when Wii U daily made an article called "Nintendo fans, be glad Ubisoft abandoned you" because god forbid if a publisher doesnt make all ports equal, nobody forced you to buy the games either, Ubisoft offered a product and you had the choice of buying or not buying. its not like they shoved the game down your throat Wiiudaily. anyway, ranting, back to topic.
i consider this kind of rational, neutral type of gamer to be the ideal gamer and what i personally define as the core gamer.
when it comes to casual gamers, i define them as people who enjoys games, but dont know much about gaming or talk about gaming. kind of how a person can watch soccer without even i knowing what teams are on the field.
I still say the bulk of the library issue lies on the third party publishers. Who is going to buy ME3 without all the dlc when the trilogy came out right after it? If you never played ME before I doubt a ton of people would start with 3. Who is going to buy Watch_Dogs six months late at full price? Who is going to buy AC 3 and 4 when they have triple packs on the other systems to get you caught up on the other games? Who is going to buy a game without DLC support? This has way less to do with the Nintendo demographic and more to do with the options provided. Back during the Nes and Snes days there were more exclusives or bigger differences between the same game on different systems. Now when you can get a game on everything under the sun crippling (and the experience is mostly the same) a potential purchase is not going to fly with gamers and consumers in general. Heck that is why I still have yet to jump on the One/Ps4 bandwagon (although I'm trying to get the dragon quest ps4...because dragon quest) because there aren't enough exclusives for me.
Even for those that aren't informed they have friends or family members that will warn them about what to purchase. It is not that we don't have the proper demographic... the demographic doesn't get proper support.
The issue I have is with the publishers that pick up their ball and go home. I'm sure they have smaller franchises that aren't getting the light of day because they can't afford to drop a AAA budget on them. I'd buy a new GOOD prince of persia game twice. Since it doesn't sale well enough to get the AC treatment then toss it on the WiiU...but don't treat it as an afterthought. Obviously there is little reason to put franchises that are graphically strenuous on the Wiiu, however I still say If we were ok with 360Ps3 graphics a year ago then I feel that it is not a dealbreaker to work with a system that looks better than them. The AC Rogue game should have gone to WiiU with it as the lead version (since the pc version will be a port). If the system is treated as an legitimate option people will buy the games. The demographic is there...otherwise no one would be complaining about it so much. After all aside from minecraft I've not seen many people upset about the library differences between the Vita and 3ds.
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Its really getting to the point where Nintendo is gonna have to overhype their games like crazy with advertising like how Sony does with Destiny and any other big game. Nintendo has to overhype and make games feel necessary to own. It also doesn't help that there are alot of people who just find Nintendo to be boring and bland no matter what they do. Like seriously... Nintendo could try to answer every problem and demand with the Wii U and people would still say they are bland and boring.
Its also getting to the point where children (yes) and loyal Nintendo fans are the only ones who will support the Wii U. Children doesn't buy everything (they prolly are the most dedicated 1st party only buy gamers) and loyal Nintendo fans just doesn't buy everything Nintendo makes. Its a good and bad thing... because most diehard Sony and Microsoft fans WILL ALMOST BUY ANYTHING 1ST PARTY. Loyal Nintendo fans just won't, though. If the new Kirby doesn't interest them... they won't buy it. If Xenoblade Chronicles X doesn't interest them... they won't buy it. If Devil's Third doesn't interest them... they won't buy it. If SMASH BROS doesn't interest them... they won't buy it. But yet they are still loyal Nintendo fans.
I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!
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There's clearly enough people there for that sort of game something which seems obvious when you look at the success of Bayonetta 2. The vast bulk of people on the Wii U are at least old enough for that sort of game. There's also clearly a lot of people in their late 20s and early 30s happily enjoying New SMB U and not giving a crap about how "kiddie" it is.
Oh my, I'm in the last 14% category.
That great thing about the Wii U is that it has something for all ages. But not only that, all ages can enjoy everything from Mario, to Bayonetta, to Zelda, to the forthcoming X, Devil's Third and Yoshi.
Variety is the spice of life.
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I still say the bulk of the library issue lies on the third party publishers. Who is going to buy ME3 without all the dlc when the trilogy came out right after it? If you never played ME before I doubt a ton of people would start with 3. Who is going to buy Watch_Dogs six months late at full price? Who is going to buy AC 3 and 4 when they have triple packs on the other systems to get you caught up on the other games? Who is going to buy a game without DLC support? This has way less to do with the Nintendo demographic and more to do with the options provided. Back during the Nes and Snes days there were more exclusives or bigger differences between the same game on different systems. Now when you can get a game on everything under the sun crippling (and the experience is mostly the same) a potential purchase is not going to fly with gamers and consumers in general. Heck that is why I still have yet to jump on the One/Ps4 bandwagon (although I'm trying to get the dragon quest ps4...because dragon quest) because there aren't enough exclusives for me.
Even for those that aren't informed they have friends or family members that will warn them about what to purchase. It is not that we don't have the proper demographic... the demographic doesn't get proper support.
The issue I have is with the publishers that pick up their ball and go home. I'm sure they have smaller franchises that aren't getting the light of day because they can't afford to drop a AAA budget on them. I'd buy a new GOOD prince of persia game twice. Since it doesn't sale well enough to get the AC treatment then toss it on the WiiU...but don't treat it as an afterthought. Obviously there is little reason to put franchises that are graphically strenuous on the Wiiu, however I still say If we were ok with 360Ps3 graphics a year ago then I feel that it is not a dealbreaker to work with a system that looks better than them. The AC Rogue game should have gone to WiiU with it as the lead version (since the pc version will be a port). If the system is treated as an legitimate option people will buy the games. The demographic is there...otherwise no one would be complaining about it so much. After all aside from minecraft I've not seen many people upset about the library differences between the Vita and 3ds.
Ironically... I bought Mass Effect 3 on Wii U and I loved it so much that now I'm a Mass Effect fan. The only AC game I ever played was AC: Black Flag on Wii U. You're totally right when you said this... "If the system is treated as an legitimate option people will buy the games." The Wii U is still seen as a joke. A kid walking around adults.
I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!
Master of the Hype Train
3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9
The first party Games Nintendo has in its is console is Core games and whatever the others have to offer are casual? Is that correct?
I never said that or even implied it. All I was saying was that this idea of dividing games into "core" and "casual" is arbitrary and also a load of BS. That the only way I see the definition of "core games" making sense is if you treated it in the same way that you would movies or music. That is to say that Radiohead's OK Computer or The Swans To be Kind are "core music listener" music while movies like Pulp Fiction and Toy Story 3 are "core movie watcher" movies. We're talking high quality, complex pieces that are well polished and do what they intend to do very well.
And in that sense? The Wii U has plenty of "core" titles. Content doesn't need to have age restrictions in order to be a masterpiece, gaming is the only media where this is accepted, it's not at all about that. With games in particular the quality of the piece is in the details like the precision of the controls or the subtle queues that tell you what to do next. A "core gamer", if there is such a thing, is constantly looking for that sort of experience. Something that is polished but also does something unexpected. Nintendo does do that very well, so there's no shortage of it on their platforms.
If you want to compress what I'm saying into a small little sentence then compress it to that. Not some nonsense about Nintendo being for "core" gamers and everyone else being casual, because I never said that. If I really thought that I wouldn't have a PC.
Good to know you can read. But the question is did you read? Still none of these explains where I've written things like SM3DW was less core compared to GTA or Smash Bros. being less core compared to SF and Mortal Kombat ? and are you still explaning how there are tons of "core" games on the Wii U.Ok will put it this way, actually I'll just copy/paste what I've written above : " And also who said anything about Wii U being a casual console. Haha where did u read that? Wii U lacked Core Games? We are talking here that the Wii U lacks Core Gamers.Does the Wii U have enough of the core gamers, not does the Wii U have enough core games.Nobody talked about Wii U not having enough core games." Hope that helped.
You keep missing his point. He is arguing, and I agree, that there is no such thing as a "core gamer." You disagree. But you have essentially had to arbitrarily create what is a core gamer and then take your definition and apply it to the Nintendo community.
Nope I am not missing any point. I'm just not feeding off the fence arguement. Arguing about what? arguing about something that isn't even part of the arguement??? All his long post he keeps arging about how Wii U has core games, when the topic is not even about Wii U not having core games, Which Wii U has plenty ( I spoon feed you this because maybe it will be too tough for you to understand, thank me later ) and which I have mentioned in the original post itself. End of this. Now tell me where is his arguements going? The question is are there enough core gamers on Wii U??? hahaha god is it that hard to understand.
Its really getting to the point where Nintendo is gonna have to overhype their games like crazy with advertising like how Sony does with Destiny and any other big game. Nintendo has to overhype and make games feel necessary to own.
Sorry, I didn't read past here because that is absolutely ridiculous. That Nintendo doesn't overhype their games is a big reason that I love them.
That route is a slippery slope. And it's slippery because it's covered with shxt.
Its just to increase sales. I think its a slippery slope, too but look how Sony is doing it. They overhype games like its the last day on Earth and it works for them. The games may turn out to be jokes but people still bought the games. Sony doesn't even get hate over it!
I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!
Master of the Hype Train
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I’m glad you wrote that piece about Zombii U. I’ve had arguments with others before on this and for some reason they believe it should’ve sold more. It’s sold over 700K when the install base was just 3.5 million. That’s actually pretty darn good, especially when you consider it didn’t score particularly well and won’t necessarily appeal to a lot of people. What do these idiots expect that is should’ve sold 1 million? That’s almost an attach rate of 1/3, which puts it in MK territory.
While Ubisoft is stupid and unbelievable saying this wasn't a success, and 700,000 is a nice number, I do think this game should have sold millions, and it also should have had a metacritic of 90. It's an amazing game, but that's my opinion
Nope I am not missing any point. I'm just not feeding off the fence arguement. Arguing about what? arguing about something that isn't even part of the arguement??? All his long post he keeps arging about how Wii U has core games, when the topic is not even about Wii U not having core games, Which Wii U has plenty ( I spoon feed you this because maybe it will be too tough for you to understand, thank me later ) and which I have mentioned in the original post itself. End of this. Now tell me where is his arguements going? The question is are there enough core gamers on Wii U??? hahaha god is it that hard to understand.
Dude, wow. When you are ready to have an adult conversation at the big kid table, let me know. In the legal world we have a phrase "asked and answered." I think that phrase is very applicable here. Your questions have been addressed here multiple times. Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean they haven't been addressed.
Hmmm...Still doesnt counter any of my arguements, or answer anything for that matter. Sorry bro but you're off, Like way off. I'll just say I get what you are trying to explain, and I'll respect your opinion. (y)
Did you want to create a thread just so that people would agree with you or did you want to have a discussion. I don't agree with your premise, simple as that. The Wii U has fantastic software and a high attach rate so clearly it is a system that has attracted people who play games. The best selling games on the system aren't twenty different versions of Just Dance either, the games are things like Smash Bros and Wind Waker HD. So are there "core" games, "core" gamers and do those "core" games sell on the Wii U? Clearly yes.
If you wanted to argue whether or not there's a market for more "adult" content on the Wii U? Well that would be another topic entirely. And again I don't think it's as simple as a yes/no answer. I think people buy the Wii U for different reasons than they buy an XBOne/PS4/PC, but I don't think that's nessisarily the same as saying they won't buy "mature" games. It's certainly not a "kids" console in terms of pure demographics. If you look at the age demographics for Wii U owners that Nintendo has published:
There's clearly enough people there for that sort of game something which seems obvious when you look at the success of Bayonetta 2. The vast bulk of people on the Wii U are at least old enough for that sort of game. There's also clearly a lot of people in their late 20s and early 30s happily enjoying New SMB U and not giving a crap about how "kiddie" it is. There are probably a whole chunk of people happily playing Mario games on the Wii U who have been regularly playing games since before some of the "hardcore gamers" were even born
I was actually taking you seriously and gave you some respect in all of my posts, but Now that you are totally losing all credibility.First with accusing me of things I didn't even mention and Now Looking at the success of WHAT??? Bayonetta 2 ??? Pfff...hahahahaha Yeah right you might as well add Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3 , Monster Hunter 3, Ninja Gaiden, nyah but these are not core games right??? Because core games for u are Wii Sports club, Nintendo Land, Did I just hear candy crush? No ? thank god hahaha : D I think when I talk with you I have to break down each sentence with further explainations to maybe like spoon feed you.Let me help you. See the thing is the whole thread is about as the name suggests : ARE THERE ENOUGH CORE GAMERS ON WII U??? and not does the Wii U have enough Core games, Which it does as I've made it clear in the original thread itself that is why I kept asking you to go back and read ( Read these terms carefully : Gamers - Games. Let me help you, gamers as in the ones that play games and games are the software that the gamers play with??? Is that clear enough for you?) The core games are there, but is there an audience for that on Wii U? That is the question.Since not one so called hardcore game has had a good outing on the Wii U.You might say games like LOZ : WW, SM3DW, NSMBU etc did well (and nobody said these weren't core games) But what about the rest of the core games, that makes up the 90%, the mature games, even nintendo exclusives games like Bayonetta, Wonderful 101 sold poopoodoodoocacapoopledoople. and No people don't buy a Wii U for different reasons, everybody has one reason .To play games. Now what games do they intend to play ? that is the catch, that is where casuals and core steps in.The casuals buy it to play games such as Wii Sports club, Nintendo land, Just Dance etc. or do you see your elderly parents, your little kid, Sister (Exceptional cases,Mostly Not) etc to be beating Bayonetta 2/Wonderful 101? And why even put up the demographics ??? It has been cleared in the original post itself that Wii U is NOT a kiddo console? (Were you ooking to win some votes? ) Core gamers are open to all sorts of good game, Not sticking to just one brand or game say to Marios or Zeldas.These games are destined to sell, Just like COD and FIFA are, otherwise Nintendo wouldn' be around would they? I myself have played Various Zeldas, Marios and Donkey Kongs but also have been playing FIFA dating back to 98. So finally after all of these, are there enough core gamers on Wii U? I hope I made you clear this time around Lol
Nope I am not missing any point. I'm just not feeding off the fence arguement. Arguing about what? arguing about something that isn't even part of the arguement??? All his long post he keeps arging about how Wii U has core games, when the topic is not even about Wii U not having core games, Which Wii U has plenty ( I spoon feed you this because maybe it will be too tough for you to understand, thank me later ) and which I have mentioned in the original post itself. End of this. Now tell me where is his arguements going? The question is are there enough core gamers on Wii U??? hahaha god is it that hard to understand.
Dude, wow. When you are ready to have an adult conversation at the big kid table, let me know. In the legal world we have a phrase "asked and answered." I think that phrase is very applicable here. Your questions have been addressed here multiple times. Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean they haven't been addressed.
"Your questions have been addressed here multiple times" Since you seem to be Skyawke's sidekick or something Please guide this old man where it has been adressed?
I think the thread creator is confusing a few terms to be the same. Core, maturity rating, production value/costs, sales, and game rating/score are not the same thing. To say, for example, Mario Kart is not a core game is wrong, IMO.
People confuse core gamers with gamers who only buy "M" rated games. I mean, there is no real definition to the terms core and casual, except that which an individual assigns to them.
I consider myself a "core" gamer, because of various factors.
(1) I enjoy games — All types of games. Not just shooters, not just sports, not just M games, not just Nintendo games.
(2) I am knowledgable about the industry — I keep up with news, I get on message boards and fora, and I frequent video game websites.
Main stream can be core, but it doesn't have to be. Big-sellers can be core, but they don't have to be. Core gamers don't have to only like CoD or AC. Mario Kart and Smash Bros, are, in my opinion, very much hard-core games. They can be played casually, with friends, but when played in a competitive nature, they are as hard core and hard core gets.
In that sense, the thread creator is missing the point. There are core gamers on the Wii U. The issue then becomes why certain 3rd party games aren't selling/didn't sell on the Wii U. I think that boils down to quality, marketing, and a few other factors.
The fact is Mario Kart 8 is a masterpiece in every aspect: game play, art-style/direction, technically. While a game like Watch_Dogs was a mess technically, and was mediocre in game play. Nintendo put more heart and effort into MK8 than Ubi did for WD Wii U. It's as simple as that. So I don't think it's fair to blame the people who own the system and call them casual or not core enough, when really the games just don't appeal.
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Topic: Are There Enough Core Gamers On Wii U? (Opinion)
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