......................... at which point the Wii U wins

@skywake Haha, maybe! I don't see winners and losers. I see system and games, and they all deliver fantastic unique titles that make owning them all worth the money. Early adopters into the next gen HD/UHD systems will be for the fanatics only. Like the PS3, most will adopt the system when the price comes down.

What I meant was they'd struggle to sell many 720/PS4s at $600-1999 (USD?). That's the price range for laptops and TVs not consoles. $600 gets you are fairly decent PC, $1999 is overkill by a mile. A 55" LED backlit 3D LCD with "smart TV" from Samsung costs $2370AUD, a 32" LED backlit LCD costs $690AU.

I really, really, really don't see the 720/PS4 going for that price and being successful. If that is what they do then the Wii U will be as big as the Wii was. I don't think that'll be what they'll do. I'm almost certain that they'll wait this one out for a few years and launch their next console in the $400-700 price range.

and that is why i read your posts with interest and value your opinions, slapshot: you don't see winners and losers, but equate the different systems honestly without bias.

Why does everyone call the controller a tablet? It's a classic controller Pro with a camera, IR sensor, Gyroscope, Rumble, and touch screen that uses a stylus. And it streams images from the TV created by a video game console. A tablet is a several hundred dollar touchscreen-only multi-use computer. It's just silly to say the two are in direct competition.

Hi everyone I just signed up to this site. I would always look at this site but never joined. Main reasons I joined was because it is a great site but also because this topic.

Anyway I don't think you should look so down at the wii u. First, it still isn't being released until april-december of 2012 so they can still do a ton of work to it. Second, don't judge it yet when it hasn't truly shown anything. I know there stock is down but a lot of people only buy stocks mainly for the money. So when nintendo goes and shows some crazy controller on stage every investors like "What? Why?" They aren't ready for a change. They don't understand the unique controller. So they take the safe route and sell. But do not judge until every detail about wii u is on the table.

I don't see any reason to value the opinion of someone who thinks that $600-2000 is a price that a console could launch at and be a huge competitor to the Wii U. That's not me saying there are winners and losers, that's me saying that's a really dumb idea. That's me saying that if Sony and MS both did that then Nintendo would dominate the market.

Perhaps you should learn how to read then. I said the Wii U will be a tough sell to casuals, not that it would be a failure. Casuals who don't really want a dedicated gaming console now they can get their fix out of other devices. The iPad and iPhone have a reasonable bunch of games now, and casuals don't really need much more.

The Wii U might just be able to attract back a core audience. Then it'll do fine for itself.

Also, for that who cares RE multifunction devices: the market cares. The market's interests do not equal your own, and there is a reason multifunctional devices are what everyone is oncoming out with these days - that's what the mass market wants.

WaltzElf. Once again I am amazed at your journalism knowledge.

The iPhone/iPad and home console markets are entirely different. A "casual gamer" who is happy with just these portable Apple devices isn't going to be interested in any home console. For them what Nintendo needs to do is make the 3DS an attractive option which is where big titles like Mario Kart, the short play style of the new Mario on 3DS and small 3DSWare and VC titles are important. Whether Nintendo will "win" there is another argument entirely.

The Wii/Kinect "casual" gamer is a different person/idea/market/thing entirely. They aren't after a short play session while they wait for a bus or a train, they're after something to play infront of their TV. They're after small play sessions with their friends/family and slightly more "deeper" casual experiences that you can't get with a portable device. They're after games like Wii Fit, Dance Central, Guitar Hero and Wii Sports Resort. For this market the iPad means nothing because you can't have friends or family gathered around an iPad. They're after a communal device rather than a personal device. You could easily argue that the Wii U doesn't win this over it's current major "competitors" the Wii and 360 + Kinect but I'm not sure how much the Wii U looks like it's going to be a complete failure with this "casual" gamer.

The way I see it the Wii U is a good HD upgrade path for casual gamers who want more from their "Wii"

If the average household has a TV that plays back video files and streams videos over the net and their network. If they also have a Blu-Ray that plays back video files, plays back DVDs and streams videos over the net and their network. You are right, multi-function devices are what everyone is coming out with these days..... which is why I doubt many people care if the Wii U is a media hub or not. Most people already have multiple media hubs.

People are quite welcome to try and explain how the iPhone, iPad and Androids aren't capturing a big slice of the casual gaming $$$s then. Let alone Kinect, which is selling well. And Facebook games. Zynga wasn't big when the Wii was at its peak. Now it is.

A common misconception a lot of people have is that a market is not infinite in terms of value. The number might be big, but it's finite. The reason the Wii was such a hit was because it was, for a long time, the only gaming product out there targeting casual gamers. And it made a bucketload of money as a result - that market value was almost entirely Nintendo's.

It's now a competitive market - the pie that is casual gaming is not going to go all of Nintendo's way now. And by the time the Wii U launches, the others will have had plenty of time to plant big flags in the pie. Of course Nintendo will win a slice, but to say that the casual market is a tough sell for anyone, given the competition that already exists, is simple logic.

The alternative is that Nintendo has somehow found yet another entirely new and untapped market. In which case it'll make an absolute killing again, but I struggle to see any other market beyond 'core' and 'casual' gaming.

iPhones, iPads, Androids and Facebook games are targeting a different person to what the Wii was tackling. The Kinect and Wii are the direct competitors to the Wii U, the rest are competitors to the Wii U like car radios are a competitor to TVs. People aren't going to come home and gather around with their friend/family around an iPad screen and play Angry Birds.

What the games on Apple and Android devices have done is capitalize on that time that people spend between doing things and for people who weren't interested in games before by making it a device that isn't about games. I think for the vast majority of gamers, even "casuals", the time when they are at home playing game is still mostly spent with "deeper" gaming experiences. For those that aren't, I'm not sure how many of those people were interested in games before they got their iDevices.

Things like Facebook games aren't tapping into something that was previously untapped either, people have always spent time online playing silly flash games. It's just that now it's centralized and socialized and small games can go viral a lot easier. People are encouraged when they play those games to tell all their friends about it. It's not a new thing.

@TheGameMonkey28 Welcome to the community!

The Wii U didn't make me angry... but I'd be hard pressed to see it as anything other than a Wii HD or a Super Wii, especially since most games will be played with Wiimotes or Classic Controllers anyway. When Nintendo finally gives me my Virtual Reality headset powered console (I've been waiting for that for years) then I'll feel like I've got something truly new. For the time being, as I get older the casual style of Nintendo gaming suits me more and more (work and commitments eats up my gaming time) so if Wii U brings more of the same, with more horsepower, I'll be happy.

You weren't satisfied with the Virtual Boy?

...had it got a UK release... maybe. Perhaps I watched Lawnmower Man too many times and set my expectations too high.

@TheGameMonkey28 Welcome to our community!

Your absolutely right TheGameMonkey28, the Wii U will very likely impress us all, but the one thing that really interested me with Nintendo at E3 this past year is that they spent so much time with Wii U, and showed way too little and offered hardly any information on the system specs (which in this day and age is becoming a big deal). What I find even more curious is that all of this happened at Nintendo's first E3 showing, post 3DS release. Many think that the 3DS isn't innovative, etc., but I disagree. The 3D effect on the handheld is like injecting pure Nintendo into the games, and somehow doesn't create eye fatigue, headaches, etc. The DS is still a wonderful system with the multiple screens, touchscreen/button layout combos and this upgraded system is fantastic in my opinion. This is what Nintendo should have pushed the most at E3!

@skywake Sorry I didn't state that correctly (I was extremely tired, as outside of game journalism I build ships for the US Navy and I work in upwards 110-130+ degree heat all day, and it wears me out immensely during the summer ), but the new HD systems will likely be very expensive and Nintendo's Wii U will most definitely outsell them once again if that is the case, but years after launch they will take-off, just as the 360/PS3 did before it. It cost money to push the technological limits in gaming and I understand that Nintendo is out to innovate, not push technology limits - which is why I love them.

Remember, I don't claim winners and losers, my friend. It's just something I don't do. I love them all, but I'm critical to them all too! Remember, you are what makes Nintendo great, just like you are what makes our site(s) great. Without you (readers and gamers), neither Nintendo or NintendoLife would be the success that they are today! Whether your a loyal Nintendo fan who thinks everything they do is superb, or someone who is critical to them, you as a gamer and fan have the right to voice your opinion and discuss it - nice and politely, of course - and you should also know that these forum thread are actually monitored by the gaming industry sometimes. This is where the gamers voices are truly heard!

@Slapshot
I'm not trying to be a pain and I'm not against being critical of Nintendo and/or praising their competitors. All I was saying is that I thought WaltzElf was wrong for saying that the iPad etc were something Nintendo needs to address with the Wii U, his idea that people don't want pure gaming devices but instead they want media hubs and I was also saying that $600-2000 would be a silly price for the PS4/720. That's all. For these reasons I would expect the PS4/720 to launch a fair while after the Wii U is out at a price closer to what the Wii U will launch for and, by then, the Wii U should have had a price drop. I also don't think the Wii U needs to worry about the iPad, that's the 3DS' concern, and I don't think people will want it less if it doesn't do DVD or Blu-Ray playback etc, etc.

I don't think I'm infallible either. When I first saw the DS I thought it was the dumbest idea ever and that the PSP would surely do better. I thought that the Wii was awesome when I first saw it but I also thought that the iPhone was ridiculious and would never take off. I thought that the PSP Go was awesome and that the PS Move was going to be a much, much bigger hit than the Kinect. I'm split on the PSV and 3DS currently, ignoring my love of first party Nintendo stuff, but I do think the Wii U is going to be huge. So... that's where I stand ATM.

so don't value his opinion. i do, because he isn't the typical fanboy type (no, i am not saying you are one, so don't go there) that sees some sort of console war all the time. there are some here that will get upset at any criticism of nintendo, no matter how valid it is. i have owned every nintendo system except the virtual boy. i don't have a 3DS due to it just costs too muich, imho. we have an xbox. we still use our ps2. i don't get the 'nintendo cannot do any wrong' attitude of some. that's why i tend to be drawn to those who don't see this in a 'the WiiU will blow microsoft and sony out of the water' type of thing. we all benefit from all the companies vying with each other.

I was thinking the same too. Wii U's just being over criticized for nothing. If they have a problem, they shouldnt play or test it.