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Topic: Advance Wars should have had Online.

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LegatoSkyheart

21. Posted:

CaviarMeths wrote:

Why? Just get Days of Ruin. It has exactly what you want.

Online would be gone by the end of May.

LegatoSkyheart

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Morphbug

22. Posted:

Well then, you should hurry up.

I doubt it will regain its online when it gets released on the Virtual Console. And from the looks of it, this series won't see a new game any time soon.

Edited on by Morphbug

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Oh! eShop Gurus.

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DefHalan

23. Posted:

Rather than adding online to an old game, I want them to ma I'm e new games. A new Advance Wars with online? A new turn-base strategy? A completely different type of game? Anything, just something new lol

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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kkslider5552000

24. Posted:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

I think there was an example of a popular old game on XBLA (I wanna say it was Golden Axe) where people constantly complained that it should have online and then when it came out no one played it online.

this was ignored because it would require people to admit they are wrong

sorry, more often than not even when they add this stuff to old games, they frequently are played online by practically no one. There are exceptions but this happens, and there's no reason I can believe there would ever be any "online Advance Wars 1" community at all. If this was the old Mario Parties or Pokemon Firered, sure but Advance Wars?

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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ultraraichu

25. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

Rather than adding online to an old game, I want them to ma I'm e new games. A new Advance Wars with online? A new turn-base strategy? A completely different type of game? Anything, just something new lol

Darn it, I was going to say the same thing.

In any case, it would be better (and make more sense) if they put online in a new or remake of Advance Wars like they did with Excitebike: World Rally, Dr. Mario Online RX and Dr. Luigi.

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UGXwolf

26. Posted:

Someone brought up a bunch of games that didn't have online that the lack of online was apparently a let down, but when I read through their list, all I saw was a bunch of games that would have infuriating, pointless, or just plain bad online multiplayer, and one game that may have actually benefited from it, being Star Fox 64 3D. I'm sorry, but Nintendo Land? New Super Mario Bros U? Super Mario 3D World? The online wouldn't be any fun. These games are designed from the ground up for LOCAL multiplayer. LOCAL being the key word, here. You benefit greatly from being able to reach over and smack your friend when they steal all of your stars, or give that one guy the mean look for taking all four moons and getting 12-up while everyone else suffers. The online modes would be absolutely lousy with trolls, and finding a good game would be difficult. The only solution would be to make the online run on pre-set-up matches, but then NOBODY WOULD FREAKING USE THE THING. It sounds pretty on the box, sure, but what good would online REALLY do for these games? And we all know that Nintendo doesn't just throw things in because they sound good. They do stuff they think will actually benefit the game and the player. It's that simple.

As for why Advanced Wars doesn't have online? Simple. It's far easier and far cheaper to port the game into the emulator than it is to rebuild it so that it can play online. Considering the low expected sales of the VC title, I'm not at all surprised that Nintendo doesn't plan to add anything to it.

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faint

27. Posted:

UGXwolf wrote:

Someone brought up a bunch of games that didn't have online that the lack of online was apparently a let down, but when I read through their list, all I saw was a bunch of games that would have infuriating, pointless, or just plain bad online multiplayer, and one game that may have actually benefited from it, being Star Fox 64 3D. I'm sorry, but Nintendo Land? New Super Mario Bros U? Super Mario 3D World? The online wouldn't be any fun. These games are designed from the ground up for LOCAL multiplayer. LOCAL being the key word, here. You benefit greatly from being able to reach over and smack your friend when they steal all of your stars, or give that one guy the mean look for taking all four moons and getting 12-up while everyone else suffers. The online modes would be absolutely lousy with trolls, and finding a good game would be difficult. The only solution would be to make the online run on pre-set-up matches, but then NOBODY WOULD FREAKING USE THE THING. It sounds pretty on the box, sure, but what good would online REALLY do for these games? And we all know that Nintendo doesn't just throw things in because they sound good. They do stuff they think will actually benefit the game and the player. It's that simple.

As for why Advanced Wars doesn't have online? Simple. It's far easier and far cheaper to port the game into the emulator than it is to rebuild it so that it can play online. Considering the low expected sales of the VC title, I'm not at all surprised that Nintendo doesn't plan to add anything to it.

this guy gets it.

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ACK

28. Posted:

Advance Wars online multi is hardly appealing. When I have time to play games, I don't have the patience to wait for an invisible stranger to make his or her moves.

Besides, why put in a feature maybe 10% of buyers will use? Especially if it increases the price/cost and therefore reduces the total number of buyers further.

ACK

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gage_wolf

29. Posted:

Unca_Lz wrote:

19Robb92 wrote:

You can definitely have online multiplayer even though it's in a EMU. But they would have ad code to the game to ad online features. Which wouldn't make it a port anymore. Unlike the manuals etc. which can just be put straight in to the EMU without changing the games code (since it's a separate feature).

Again, what does Nintendo gain from this? Most of these arguments only look at how the consumer alone benefits from such decisions, but that alone does NOT give a business a good incentive to do it

Seeing as how we are consumers, and not shareholders it only makes sense that people's desires and demands on these forums will represent the consumer. Maybe Nintendo should pay you guys for looking out for their best business interests.

gage_wolf

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BluesDrive

30. Posted:

I'm shocked at how negative everyone is towards this idea and that people still use that "it's built for local co-op" excuse. Sure some games would be enjoyed more locally but fun could still be had online. I'd love to play Mario 3D World with 4 player online. Or DKCTF co-op online. Adding online multiplayer to some GBA games would greatly lengthen a games lifetime. Aside from the fact that Nintendo is making a killing. $5 NES games? $8 SNES games? $8-9 GBA games which as many have enthusiastically pointed out are nothing but direct ports.

BluesDrive

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DefHalan

31. Posted:

BluesDrive wrote:

I'm shocked at how negative everyone is towards this idea and that people still use that "it's built for local co-op" excuse. Sure some games would be enjoyed more locally but fun could still be had online. I'd love to play Mario 3D World with 4 player online. Or DKCTF co-op online. Adding online multiplayer to some GBA games would greatly lengthen a games lifetime. Aside from the fact that Nintendo is making a killing. $5 NES games? $8 SNES games? $8-9 GBA games which as many have enthusiastically pointed out are nothing but direct ports.

I don't think anyone is against Nintendo putting Online into games, I just don't think Online has to be in all games. If a game is designed with Online Multiplayer in mind then it should have it, if it is designed for Local Multiplayer then it should have that. There are very few games that are designed for both Online and Local. Mario 3D World and DKCTF were designed for local multiplayer. Online Multiplayer cost a lot of money to do. If Online Multiplayer isn't a focus of a game's design why put resources into it? If racing isn't a focus of Battlefield do you want them wasting time and money on making a Racing Mode? Online os important for some games, not all.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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OptometristLime

32. Posted:

Agree with this:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

I think there was an example of a popular old game on XBLA (I wanna say it was Golden Axe) where people constantly complained that it should have online and then when it came out no one played it online.

this was ignored because it would require people to admit they are wrong

sorry, more often than not even when they add this stuff to old games, they frequently are played online by practically no one. There are exceptions but this happens, and there's no reason I can believe there would ever be any "online Advance Wars 1" community at all. If this was the old Mario Parties or Pokemon Firered, sure but Advance Wars?

This, too:

DefHalan wrote:

Rather than adding online to an old game, I want them to make new games. A new Advance Wars with online? A new turn-base strategy? A completely different type of game? Anything, just something new lol

I think a brand new game with the mechanics of Advance Wars, could push folks online. Heck we're overdue for a game that incorporates some of the tenets of the series such as a compelling approach to strategy, and an approachable multiplayer experience.

Edited on by OptometristLime

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

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BluesDrive

33. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

BluesDrive wrote:

I'm shocked at how negative everyone is towards this idea and that people still use that "it's built for local co-op" excuse. Sure some games would be enjoyed more locally but fun could still be had online. I'd love to play Mario 3D World with 4 player online. Or DKCTF co-op online. Adding online multiplayer to some GBA games would greatly lengthen a games lifetime. Aside from the fact that Nintendo is making a killing. $5 NES games? $8 SNES games? $8-9 GBA games which as many have enthusiastically pointed out are nothing but direct ports.

I don't think anyone is against Nintendo putting Online into games, I just don't think Online has to be in all games. If a game is designed with Online Multiplayer in mind then it should have it, if it is designed for Local Multiplayer then it should have that. There are very few games that are designed for both Online and Local. Mario 3D World and DKCTF were designed for local multiplayer. Online Multiplayer cost a lot of money to do. If Online Multiplayer isn't a focus of a game's design why put resources into it? If racing isn't a focus of Battlefield do you want them wasting time and money on making a Racing Mode? Online os important for some games, not all.

That last example of yours isn't really good. BF is a shooter, people like BF because it's a shooter. It would be ridiculous to change its genre. Adding online modes doesn't change the fundamentals of a game like that. Adding online costs money? That's fine, sounds reasonable. The problem I have is that some people are so close minded. Mario 3D World and DKCTF could be fun. Mario Kart and Smash Bros were both birthed as local games but are pretty fun online. And yes, I'm aware that they are completely different genres, but I would love to be able to play with my buddies online in Mario 3D World. Especially the ones that live in other states or countries.

BluesDrive

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Sleepingmudkip

34. Posted:

Its a cheap port not a remake......why are we really complaining

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MAB

35. Posted:

It doesn't and never will so ya'll just gonna have to...

Untitled

MAB

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DefHalan

36. Posted:

BluesDrive wrote:

That last example of yours isn't really good. BF is a shooter, people like BF because it's a shooter. It would be ridiculous to change its genre.

But it requires different design. Just like an Online Multiplayer game or Local Mulitplayer game, which is where my comparison comes from.

BluesDrive wrote:

Adding online modes doesn't change the fundamentals of a game like that.

Perfect Dark is a game designed for Local Multiplayer, sure the remake on Xbox 360 has online multiplayer but it wasn't as much fun. You cannot take any local multiplayer game and throw Online in and keep it just as fun. (there are exceptions)

BluesDrive wrote:

Adding online costs money? That's fine, sounds reasonable.

yes

BluesDrive wrote:

The problem I have is that some people are so close minded. Mario 3D World and DKCTF could be fun.

could be fun isn't what we want as consumers. We want Fun plain and simple. Mario 3D World and DKCTF as designed for local multiplayer. Lets forget Lag, Servers, and all the other issues online games have. Lets look at straight design. How much fun is exploration in an online game? Do you want to play 3D World with someone that isn't going towards the same goal as you? What if want all the Star Coins but someone else just wants to get to the end? When some people are rushing through a level trying to complete it and others are trying to explore the area it can cause problems: groups becoming separated, people not being able to achieve what they set out to do, and people forming bad opinions on a game do to other players and their play styles. Other people play games differently than you or I, which is why many online games are very simple in their goals: Kill the other team, gain levels, complete a certain quest. Platformers that focus on exploration are very hard games to make fun while playing online.

BluesDrive wrote:

Mario Kart and Smash Bros were both birthed as local games but are pretty fun online. And yes, I'm aware that they are completely different genres, but I would love to be able to play with my buddies online in Mario 3D World. Especially the ones that live in other states or countries.

Mario Kart and Smash Bros are competeitive games and fit into the online world do to their limited amount of goals. All you have to do is Win. Most people will agree placing 1st in Mario Kart is Winning or being the last survivor in Smash Bros is Winning. How do you "Win" at 3D World? The scoring system? The Star Coins? The Time Limit? How many coins you collected? Gold Flagging a level? I personally don't care about coins collected, time limits, or the scoring system. Others do. If we try playing together we will be hurting each other's play styles.

I am sure you can find certain games you think break this idea, and I am sure I can counter every point you make but this is how I see online gaming. When playing online I want a certain goal to achieve, even in a MMO. Ever wonder why most MMOs have stupid easy quests at the beginning of the game? They want you to start completing goals. Most of the goals in online games are simple and not open to much interpretation, how you complete those goals is where these games are open to interpretation. Some people think getting to the end of the story is completing a game, others think maxing out skills, and others may think it is completing all the side quests.

Wow I wrote way too much lol, sorry about the wall of text

Edited on by DefHalan

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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gage_wolf

37. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

BluesDrive wrote:

That last example of yours isn't really good. BF is a shooter, people like BF because it's a shooter. It would be ridiculous to change its genre.

But it requires different design. Just like an Online Multiplayer game or Local Mulitplayer game, which is where my comparison comes from.

BluesDrive wrote:

Adding online modes doesn't change the fundamentals of a game like that.

Perfect Dark is a game designed for Local Multiplayer, sure the remake on Xbox 360 has online multiplayer but it wasn't as much fun. You cannot take any local multiplayer game and throw Online in and keep it just as fun. (there are exceptions)

BluesDrive wrote:

Adding online costs money? That's fine, sounds reasonable.

yes

BluesDrive wrote:

The problem I have is that some people are so close minded. Mario 3D World and DKCTF could be fun.

could be fun isn't what we want as consumers. We want Fun plain and simple. Mario 3D World and DKCTF as designed for local multiplayer. Lets forget Lag, Servers, and all the other issues online games have. Lets look at straight design. How much fun is exploration in an online game? Do you want to play 3D World with someone that isn't going towards the same goal as you? What if want all the Star Coins but someone else just wants to get to the end? When some people are rushing through a level trying to complete it and others are trying to explore the area it can cause problems: groups becoming separated, people not being able to achieve what they set out to do, and people forming bad opinions on a game do to other players and their play styles. Other people play games differently than you or I, which is why many online games are very simple in their goals: Kill the other team, gain levels, complete a certain quest. Platformers that focus on exploration are very hard games to make fun while playing online.

BluesDrive wrote:

Mario Kart and Smash Bros were both birthed as local games but are pretty fun online. And yes, I'm aware that they are completely different genres, but I would love to be able to play with my buddies online in Mario 3D World. Especially the ones that live in other states or countries.

Mario Kart and Smash Bros are competeitive games and fit into the online world do to their limited amount of goals. All you have to do is Win. Most people will agree placing 1st in Mario Kart is Winning or being the last survivor in Smash Bros is Winning. How do you "Win" at 3D World? The scoring system? The Star Coins? The Time Limit? How many coins you collected? Gold Flagging a level? I personally don't care about coins collected, time limits, or the scoring system. Others do. If we try playing together we will be hurting each other's play styles.

I am sure you can find certain games you think break this idea, and I am sure I can counter every point you make but this is how I see online gaming. When playing online I want a certain goal to achieve, even in a MMO. Ever wonder why most MMOs have stupid easy quests at the beginning of the game? They want you to start completing goals. Most of the goals in online games are simple and not open to much interpretation, how you complete those goals is where these games are open to interpretation. Some people think getting to the end of the story is completing a game, others think maxing out skills, and others may think it is completing all the side quests.

Wow I wrote way too much lol, sorry about the wall of text

Haha. Outdoing me.

gage_wolf

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LegatoSkyheart

38. Posted:

To DefHalan,

holy crap man. You should read what you're typing.

1. What's so different from Online Multiplayer and Local Multiplayer? Go Insert your WiiSports Disc and play that for a bit and then go play Wiisports Club and tell me how much they changed the design of the game. There's little to no change is there? There was no hardcore redesign or anything, Wii Sports Club is just Wii Sports with Online Multiplayer and you know what? IT'S BETTER! because not only do you get the Local Multiplayer from Wii Sports, but now you can compete with other people in the Region and try to get your Club to be the Best Club around. It's way more open than it used to be, a lot more Social, but the Game didn't have to change, Online was just added.

2. I don't think you actually played Perfect Dark on the 360, because I found that game's Online Multiplayer to be INCREDIBLY fun especially when you're using Goldeneye Weapons and playing on Goldeneye Maps. Also on PC there's a Source Mod called Golden Eye Source which is a mod that takes everything you loved about The Original Golden Eye Multiplayer and revamps it, it has a community and people constantly playing it right now! So to say that you can't just slap Online multiplayer on Local Multiplayer is entirely false, because YOU CAN and it CAN be fun as it's constantly shown!

3. I think we all agree on that little tid bit. Kind of a given.

4. Not only do I not think you have played Perfect Dark on the 360, but I'm pretty sure you didn't play ANY Online Multiplayer Games on the other Systems either, because there are plenty of Platformers found on the Xbox 360 and PS3 that have Online and Worked pretty well. Lag can be an issue if YOUR connection is wonky, but We all played on the Wii...so we're used to this stuff. Anyway the game I'm trying to motion towards is a little game called Little Big Planet, It's platformer and has many goals in it, whether it's just to get to the end or to collect all of the Bubbles, in certain parts you are required another person or 4 to get to a certain item so Online Multiplayer or Local was necessary and you know what? It's fun. Even when the other person is just goofing off They're there to have fun. Super 3D World and Donkey Kong would have BENEFITED with this concept of Online, You could all be working to complete the level, or you would be goofing off trying to get that last Star or Letter, The Possibilities would be endless. The Examples you're giving are just things that could have happened anyway if you invited someone over and have them play with you. Their Goals maybe different than yours that's how people work!

5. In Platformers or Strategy games there is always a sense of "Winning" otherwise why is there even a Local Multiplayer Option? Going back to point one, Wii Sports, What is so different from Wii Sports to Wii Sports Club safe for the Online? There's really nothing there that's entirely different from the two games except for the Online. And as I've stated before there are Platformers and Strategy games out there that you're claiming to not being able to work properly that DO work properly and they do get played and people DO work together to get to a common goal. So What's Holding Nintendo back from Adding Online to all of their great Local Multiplayer games? There's really nothing to it.

What it just seems here is that many of you are trying to hold dear to something that you have convinced yourselves is the absolute truth and that is Local Multiplayer Experiences like Donkey Kong and Mario just can't work Online, but the evidence is there that it CAN happen and you don't want to face that because that would mean you're wrong.

There is no reason why Nintendo couldn't have added an Online option to their Virtual Console Emulator so we could play other people on Advance Wars, but instead we're stuck playing with Bots and passing the controller to someone who just so happened to be right next to us wanting to play Advance Wars. It just seems like a waste.

That's my 2 cents on what you wrote and this whole thing in general.

LegatoSkyheart

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DefHalan

39. Posted:

@LegatoSkyheart

DefHalan wrote:

I am sure you can find certain games you think break this idea, and I am sure I can counter every point you make but this is how I see online gaming.

Please don't make assumptions, I have played many online games and still do today. There are games that I want to experience online and there are games that should only be local multiplayer experiences. Just like there are gaming experiences that work better in the Analog World and in the Digital World. Wii Sports actually fits into my opinions of Online Multiplayer.

Adding Online Multiplayer to a game doesn't make it better or more enjoyable. It has the possibility to do that but it doesn't always. We can continue to argue game design with each other (which I love studying game design) but it is hard to understand how different features can/should be implemented in a game and how those features can affect mechanics.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Morphbug

40. Posted:

I have never played this game, but something tells me playing it online would be about as interesting as playing Chess with a slow, indecisive computer oponent.

Specially considering it would lack any easy way to comunicate with the other player.

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