Wii U Forum

Topic: "Acheivements" on the Wii U

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SCAR392

81. Posted:

I still don't care. I'm indifferent, but that doesn't mean Nintendo's gonna do it.
They probably would have already done it. They want people to talk and share about their "achievements" on Miiverse.

It's like if you buy a car, you get the title for it. Say there wasn't a title saying you own the car. That doesn't mean you don't own the car(outside of the law, of course).

Edited on by SCAR392

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DefHalan

82. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

@Def This is equivalent to an alcoholic supporting prohibition because he had a drinking problem.

Now that is a good analogy.

As I said before I am not against people enjoying Achievements. If you enjoy Achievements congratulations. You want my opinion? Achievements can destroy game-play experiences if used incorrectly, and most are used incorrectly. So you want to know if I think Achievements should be on Wii U? I do not for reasons listed before. I am not actively stopping Nintendo from adding Achievements, I am just voicing an opinion. Just as someone who ruined their life due to being addicted to Pot might support the banning of Pot. Just as someone who had their house burn down due to an arsonist might be more inclined to send someone to jail that is being accused of arson. I am not claiming that my point of view is neutral but that is why I have said time and time again, it is my opinion.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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AlexSays

83. Posted:

Disregarding the fact, you are legally required to have a title to prove ownership in almost all circumstances. You guys and your analogies..

Edit: Ah, corrected yourself. You are learning well my brother.

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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AlexSays

84. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

Just as someone who ruined their life due to being addicted to Pot might support the banning of Pot. Just as someone who had their house burn down due to an arsonist might be more inclined to send someone to jail that is being accused of arson. I am not claiming that my point of view is neutral but that is why I have said time and time again, it is my opinion.

Well one of those situations is illegal (a jury incriminating someone due to previous personal experience)..

The other? Sure I'll let you have that one. Just like a drug addict that ruined their life.. thankfully those achievement-less games intervened before we lost you forever. : (

AlexSays

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DefHalan

85. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

Well one of those situations is illegal (a jury incriminating someone due to previous personal experience)..

The other? Sure I'll let you have that one. Just like a drug addict that ruined their life.. thankfully those achievement-less games intervened before we lost you forever. : (

Right that is why someone who cannot remain neutral shouldn't be the one making the choice. We all have our opinions. You have voiced yours and I have voiced mine. We are on opposite sides of the argument but it doesn't mean one of us is trying to ruin something for the other. We are just voicing our opinions.

Edited on by DefHalan

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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cheesesteak7

86. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

It is a mechanic that is used to sell DLC. I personally don't like Achievements, it destroyed the fun of gaming for me. I became obsessed with getting all Achievements from all the games I played. I am glad Nintendo didn't make an Achievement style mechanic required for their system.

Don't get me wrong Achievements do a great job of selling DLC and showing players somethings they wouldn't have seen otherwise but i personally don't like Achievements

ehh, want me to list all the DLC-less games that have achievements? I'm not even sure how you even came to that conclusion...

DefHalan wrote:

I have shared with you ways that Achievements have affected me. I was addicted to getting all Achievements for all the games I played. It caused me to have a massive back catalog of games and to start hating the game by the time I finished it. I personally have problems with Achievements, as I have stated before. You will not be able to change my opinion on them. Am I going to actively try to ruin Achievements for everyone else? No. There are some good Achievements but they have affected me in such a way that I personally would rather not have then even as an option. That is my personal opinion.

EDIT: Also, I was so obsessed with getting Achievements that I would make accuses not to do things so I could work on getting achievements. I do not like achievements. I am sorry my personal opinion does not match yours but my opinion will not change.

so b/c you lacked self-control over achievements, you think they are some way to expose or exploit others who lack self-control? And it's not like they're harmful in any way besides sentiment. They don't cost you money and you aren't FORCED to play in any way different than you'd normally play. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just genuinely don't understand your perspective.

I, for one, love achievements, though I rarely go out of my way to get them. I think they add some incentive to diversify your play experience and can be nifty little things to share/show to your friends and other gamers. I'd love it if Wii U added achievements, though I feel it's a tad late - what about retroactive achievements?

Edited on by cheesesteak7

cheesesteak7

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DefHalan

87. Posted:

@cheesesteak7

There are plenty of games that have achievements that don't have DLC. Achievements are mandatory on Xbox 360 and PS3 so any game released for those systems have Achievements. When I said that Achievements are used to sell DLC it is less about the Achievements and more how companies use Achievements. Rather than repeating myself please read what I have already posted. It is a personal opinion of me not liking Achievements. I see more bad than good. I see how it can destroy game-play experiences. Yes I personally had bad experiences with Achievements and that is why I do not like them. That is why I would rather Nintendo not. If you want them then good for you. If Nintendo adds mandatory Achievements then that is their choice and I will continue to play Nintendo games but personally I would rather them not, for personal reasons.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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DisasterStruck

88. Posted:

No, keep virtual rewards away from Nintendo platforms, by virtual rewards I mean achievements/trophies. In my opinion, it can potentially ruin a gamer's experience. As for me, trophies always made me feel a sense of incompletion. Sony released a firmware update recently, it gives gamers an option to turn off trophy notification. Trophies pop up while you're gaming which makes me feel as though they're a part of the game. I try to ignore it but after beating a game without getting all the trophies, It makes me feel a sense of incompletion. Consequently, folks end up wasting time trying to max out a trophy list instead of playing new games or catching up on their backlogs.

Without trophies, I think gamers would be more creative in how they play their games. We should be re-playing games and enjoying them because we love them not because of additional tasks disguised as artificial rewards. I'm glad achievements aren't on 3DS and WiiU. In-game achievements are okay, but not a mandatory achievement system. All of this is my opinion of coarse.

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DefHalan

89. Posted:

@DisasterStruck

I totally agree with you

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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PloXyZeRO

90. Posted:

I see no downside of having achievements...if you want them, they are there to complete
If not, you don't have to do them. That's all there is to it. Of course, Nintendo already expressed its opinion about achievements, so it's likely that we will never see them on the Wii U or 3DS.

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8BitSamurai

91. Posted:

Why are there people in here bashing achievements? They're completely optional. The only thing they can possibly do is add replay value and a larger sense of achievement to a game, which is pretty hard to say no to. If you don't want to get them, there really is nothing stopping you. Now on the PS3, even, you can turn off the notifications. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, but not including them in the new systems just feels archaic and backwards to me.

Personally, I don't usually go for 100% completion (and again, nothing is forcing me to), but I love the added sense of achievement I get when I see the trophy message in the top right of the screen. I didn't even know that the games had separate trophies in the Jak and Daxter Collection, so when I got the platinum, it was quite the moment.

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SyntheticPerson

92. Posted:

I prefer the old system of having completion percentages for the game, and having plenty of stuff to do. Even if it is just hidden medals (like the red star rings in Sonic). Unlockable cheats for achieving things should also be used more often in modern games - much like in GE and PD. I miss working hard on a level to earn a golden gun, or paintball mode, or big head mode, or whatever.

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SCAR392

93. Posted:

It just wouldn't make much sense for Nintendo to add "accomplishments". I could be proven wrong, but I really don't care, anyway.

I think their play coin system is quite a bit better on 3DS. They could just apply that to unlock extras in-game, or on the system software(they've already done this).

Every time you get "100 kill or whatever", just give 2 play coins to the account, then you can download little extras on the eShop or something.

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dumedum

94. Posted:

No. Trophies/Acheivements suck. In game is ok, even outside, but it should be optional for the developer, not just for the user.

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element187

95. Posted:

uttfan wrote:

I'd like to see Achievement like awards within games on Wii U

Then you should start campaigns for the individual devs to add it to their games as an option you can turn in settings of that game.... It would be a mistake to force it system wide by Nintendo's part on people who don't need arbitrary metrics to feel motivation to play a game. Nintendo did good by not forcing achievements in every game. Some games like 1st party Nintendo games don't need them because of the high replay value of their software.

If your having difficulty remaining motivated to play a game it sounds like you are playing games with limited replay value. Ass Creed 3 had a hard time keeping me motivated to play to the end. I don't see how creating arbitrary goals in games will change that. A bad game is a bad game.

How should a platform holder handle this, it seems pretty crappy to force this on their customers who see zero value in achievements. It costs money to maintain servers/records and extra dev time which will need to be passed onto the customer and I really would not like to pay for something that would be forced system wide when it should be on a case by case basis of each individual game... If a Ubisoft or Cacom sees fit to add it, great but I don't want Nintendo to start charging for online just to have achievements forced down everyone's throats.

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element187

96. Posted:

MAN1AC wrote:

I'm all for it.
I really dont see why anyone wouldn't. You dont have to do them just because they're there.

To do it system wide it would require the platform holder to setup databases/servers that keep track of it (I don't want to pay for crud I'd never use). It would also force every game to be patched to support it. It would put extra unneeded work on indie developers who are just trying to get a game released without blowing their budget. They don't have unlimited funds like Ubi, Capcom, Activision.

element187

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element187

97. Posted:

cheesesteak7 wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

It is a mechanic that is used to sell DLC. I personally don't like Achievements, it destroyed the fun of gaming for me. I became obsessed with getting all Achievements from all the games I played. I am glad Nintendo didn't make an Achievement style mechanic required for their system.

Don't get me wrong Achievements do a great job of selling DLC and showing players somethings they wouldn't have seen otherwise but i personally don't like Achievements

ehh, want me to list all the DLC-less games that have achievements? I'm not even sure how you even came to that conclusion...

DefHalan wrote:

I have shared with you ways that Achievements have affected me. I was addicted to getting all Achievements for all the games I played. It caused me to have a massive back catalog of games and to start hating the game by the time I finished it. I personally have problems with Achievements, as I have stated before. You will not be able to change my opinion on them. Am I going to actively try to ruin Achievements for everyone else? No. There are some good Achievements but they have affected me in such a way that I personally would rather not have then even as an option. That is my personal opinion.

EDIT: Also, I was so obsessed with getting Achievements that I would make accuses not to do things so I could work on getting achievements. I do not like achievements. I am sorry my personal opinion does not match yours but my opinion will not change.

so b/c you lacked self-control over achievements, you think they are some way to expose or exploit others who lack self-control? And it's not like they're harmful in any way besides sentiment. They don't cost you money

They most certainly do. Any second a developer has to take time to create any kind of content it's money being spent... In order for Nintendo to implement it system wide they will have to add capacity to their already taxed servers... I personally would rather Nintendo put their resources towards more important things like Miiverse and speeding up their downloads (bandwidth/server performance)

Why do you think ms and Sony charge a monthly fee and put all this behind pay walls ? They want to be compensated for every feature they spend time (therefore $$$) on.

It should be on a game to game basis as it is now. NSMBU has challenges to play. Has star coins to collect, nintendoland has stars, coins, presents/trophies... Having it on a game to game basis compliments the experience much better than trying to shoe horn this crap into every game by some sort of metric every dev has to implement... And what of Indie developers who have finite resources? You are forcing them to spend more development resources (read time/money) to implement things that may or may not improve the experience because they are bound to some silly policy of the platform holder.

If Nintendo follows suit, expect network services to be put behind a pay wall like the other two systems.... No thx.

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8BitSamurai

98. Posted:

element187 wrote:

MAN1AC wrote:

I'm all for it.
I really dont see why anyone wouldn't. You dont have to do them just because they're there.

To do it system wide it would require the platform holder to setup databases/servers that keep track of it (I don't want to pay for crud I'd never use). It would also force every game to be patched to support it. It would put extra unneeded work on indie developers who are just trying to get a game released without blowing their budget. They don't have unlimited funds like Ubi, Capcom, Activision.

Why would adding achievements to their servers break the bank, but not their other online functions? I also really, really cannot imagine it taking any real amount of effort to put achievements in a game. They have to create music, game mechanics, character models, stories, controls, and a million other things, so why would a list of in-game accomplishments be too much to handle? Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense.

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CanisWolfred

99. Posted:

Yeah, achievements are work, but as far as game development goes, they're practically peanuts as far as I can tell. I like that Nintendo isn't forcing it on developers, but you'd think more developers would be doing it anyways just because it'd give their games more life, even if it's just for a few people who bother with it, that the system would easily make up for the added development costs. Having a unified system would make it that much easier for the developers, too, as well as motivate more people to do them, which could lead to more sales, if only for it to mean the difference between a weekend rental and full-time purchase for some people.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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shingi_70

100. Posted:

why do people assume achievements mean a pay wall. I mean steam has them right? Patching is free so it wouldn't break indies banks too add achievements.

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