Wii U Forum

Topic: "Acheivements" on the Wii U

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DefHalan

61. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Optional features are not always good. Smoking is an optional feature of life but if you are forced to be near someone that smokes then you get a lot of the negatives (just an example). I see more bad than good in Achievements, even when they are optional.

If you are forced to also take part in the smoking, its not optional.

That was not a good analogy. lol

I am not saying you are forced to take part in smoking. I am saying if you are forced to be near someone who is smoking. If you are at DisneyLand and the line to the ride you want to go on is near a Smoking area then you have to take in the bad of second hand smoke to ride that ride. If I am playing with a group of guys and they are all going for achievements and not caring about how the team overall is doing then I am forced to have bad teammates do to achievements.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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SCAR392

62. Posted:

@AlexSays
The problem is, is that my opinion doesn't matter to you, and that apparently makes me look self-centered. That's ironic.

There's a simple solution if you want a goal system: Play Xbox or PS.

Like @DefHalan said, it's an optional feature many would rather not have.

Edited on by SCAR392

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AlexSays

63. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

AlexSays wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Optional features are not always good. Smoking is an optional feature of life but if you are forced to be near someone that smokes then you get a lot of the negatives (just an example). I see more bad than good in Achievements, even when they are optional.

If you are forced to also take part in the smoking, its not optional.

That was not a good analogy. lol

I am not saying you are forced to take part in smoking. I am saying if you are forced to be near someone who is smoking. If you are at DisneyLand and the line to the ride you want to go on is near a Smoking area then you have to take in the bad of second hand smoke to ride that ride. If I am playing with a group of guys and they are all going for achievements and not caring about how the team overall is doing then I am forced to have bad teammates do to achievements.

You are implying they are being forced to inhale the smoke. Achievements are entirely avoidable. This is pretty evident by the fact you didn't remember several Nintendo games already have them. lol

Now you are envisioning playing with a group of people playing an online game for achievements? Has this ever happened to you? You magically got set up with a team of individuals that were miraculously all striving towards the same achievement and not caring at all for the rest of the game?

Even if that magical situation ever happened, you could simply spend the five seconds to find a new match. You are really reaching here..

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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AlexSays

64. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@AlexSays
The problem is, is that my opinion doesn't matter to you, and that apparently makes me look self-centered. That's ironic.

There's a simple solution if you want a goal system: Play Xbox or PS.

Like @DefHalan said, it's an optional feature many would rather not have.

Nintendo games have goal systems. Why can't I play Nintendo games?

How long till you accept Nintendo already does this, just to a lesser extent? I can find the achievement lists for a few Nintendo games, if you'd like. Your whole 'that's a MS and Sony thing' is not helping you look any less biased when you repeatedly ignore what is available on the Nintendo systems.

You can not want Nintendo to replicate what other companies have done, but to wish for an optional feature which has already been used (apparently without your knowledge) to be removed and never implemented makes absolutely no sense.

AlexSays

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SCAR392

65. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

AlexSays wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Optional features are not always good. Smoking is an optional feature of life but if you are forced to be near someone that smokes then you get a lot of the negatives (just an example). I see more bad than good in Achievements, even when they are optional.

If you are forced to also take part in the smoking, its not optional.

That was not a good analogy. lol

I am not saying you are forced to take part in smoking. I am saying if you are forced to be near someone who is smoking. If you are at DisneyLand and the line to the ride you want to go on is near a Smoking area then you have to take in the bad of second hand smoke to ride that ride. If I am playing with a group of guys and they are all going for achievements and not caring about how the team overall is doing then I am forced to have bad teammates do to achievements.

You are implying they are being forced to inhale the smoke. Achievements are entirely avoidable. This is pretty evident by the fact you didn't remember several Nintendo games already have them. lol

Now you are envisioning playing with a group of people playing an online game for achievements? His this ever happened to you? You magically got set up with a team of individuals that were miraculously all striving towards the same achievement and not caring at all for the rest of the game?

Even if that magical situation ever happened, you could simply spend the five seconds to find a new match. You are really reaching here..

I've already said, that those aren't tied into the system, and unlock in game content. That different than saying, "Oh, you found the key" mid game. No s*** I found the key. I don't need stuff like that to be kept track of.
Have you ever heard of boosting? VOID.
Also, achievements are avoidable, by not implementing them at all.

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SCAR392

66. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@AlexSays
The problem is, is that my opinion doesn't matter to you, and that apparently makes me look self-centered. That's ironic.

There's a simple solution if you want a goal system: Play Xbox or PS.

Like @DefHalan said, it's an optional feature many would rather not have.

Nintendo games have goal systems. Why can't I play Nintendo games?

How long till you accept Nintendo already does this, just to a lesser extent? I can find the achievement lists for a few Nintendo games, if you'd like. Your whole 'that's a MS and Sony thing' is not helping you look any less biased when you repeatedly ignore what is available on the Nintendo systems.

You can not want Nintendo to replicate what other companies have done, but to wish for an optional feature which has already been used (apparently without your knowledge) to be removed and never implemented makes absolutely no sense.

Do you read, at all? We've already discussed the bias situation. I enjoy Xbox games with or without achievements. Nintendo doesn't need to have them, because no one cares.
You're right, Nintendo should add them so that there are 3 goal systems that don't matter.
I just agreed with you, happy? Also, Nintendo's mot going to add them, because no one gives a s***.

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AlexSays

67. Posted:

SCAR wrote:

I've already said, that those aren't tied into the system, and unlock in game content. That different than saying, "Oh, you found the key" mid game. No s*** I found the key. I don't need stuff like that to be kept track of.
Have you ever heard of boosting? VOID.
Also, achievements are avoidable, by not implementing them at all.

So you're perfectly content with Nintendo's achievement system, but you do not want an achievement system. Congratulations, you masterfully admitted Nintendo is doing something you don't like while only saying positive things about them at the same time. Nicely done.

Also yes, boosting happens ALL THE TIME. This is why you see people raging all over the Internet about achievements... oh wait.

AlexSays

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DefHalan

68. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

You are implying they are being forced to inhale the smoke. Achievements are entirely avoidable. This is pretty evident by the fact you didn't remember several Nintendo games already have them. lol

Now you are envisioning playing with a group of people playing an online game for achievements? His this ever happened to you? You magically got set up with a team of individuals that were miraculously all striving towards the same achievement and not caring at all for the rest of the game?

Even if that magical situation ever happened, you could simply spend the five seconds to find a new match. You are really reaching here..

Do to people Smoking in a Theme Park that I paid to get in, that smoke is destroying the fun that I am having. Yes the situation about the online players happens to me a lot on Xbox and more and more games are putting things in the online multiplayer that punishes quitters. So do to them going for these achievements I am not having as much fun in a game that I paid for. You are acting like I do not have legitimate reasons for not liking achievements. I have explained my reasons why I do not like Achievement using real scenarios that I have experienced. There is no right or wrong answer.

Edited on by DefHalan

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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AlexSays

69. Posted:

SCAR wrote:

Do you read, at all? We've already discussed the bias situation. I enjoy Xbox games with or without achievements. Nintendo doesn't need to have them, because no one cares.
You're right, Nintendo should add them so that there are 3 goal systems that don't matter.
I just agreed with you, happy? Also, Nintendo's mot going to add them, because no one gives a s***.

You enjoy Xbox games regardless of there being achievements, but achievements would hurt Nintendo games? Makes perfect sense.

Oh and also, there are Nintendo games with achievements. They've already added them. lol

AlexSays

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SCAR392

70. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

SCAR wrote:

I've already said, that those aren't tied into the system, and unlock in game content. That different than saying, "Oh, you found the key" mid game. No s*** I found the key. I don't need stuff like that to be kept track of.
Have you ever heard of boosting? VOID.
Also, achievements are avoidable, by not implementing them at all.

So you're perfectly content with Nintendo's achievement system, but you do not want an achievement system. Congratulations, you masterfully admitted Nintendo is doing something you don't like while only saying positive things about them at the same time. Nicely done.

Also yes, boosting happens ALL THE TIME. This is why you see people raging all over the Internet about achievements... oh wait.

I understand that Nintendo has 'achievements'. Does unlocking an Xbox/PS achievements give you in game content? No.
Does Nintendo's? Yes. You unlock artwork and music in Nintendo games.

It is most definitely different on the separate consoles. Nintendo gives you unlocks, and the others just give you a point which contributes to nothing. You still didn't answer how the Day One Xbox One achievement is good at all.

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AlexSays

71. Posted:

@Def There's not much else I can do for you. By comparing it to inhaling someone else's smoke, your understanding of the situation is fundamentally flawed. A similar comparison would be allowing people to smoke without having an impact on you at all.

Instead, you view people having options as being a burden to you and affecting you in some great way. Achievement systems do not affect you. They haven't affected you in previous Nintendo games (to your admission) and even my friend Scar has admitted he enjoys 360 games regardless of there being achievements.

At this point we're just being stubborn because 'we don't like them'. This is a lot like a political discussion, and much in the same way, 'just not liking them' is not a valid critique of any sort of mechanism or system.

AlexSays

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SCAR392

72. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

SCAR wrote:

Do you read, at all? We've already discussed the bias situation. I enjoy Xbox games with or without achievements. Nintendo doesn't need to have them, because no one cares.
You're right, Nintendo should add them so that there are 3 goal systems that don't matter.
I just agreed with you, happy? Also, Nintendo's mot going to add them, because no one gives a s***.

You enjoy Xbox games regardless of there being achievements, but achievements would hurt Nintendo games? Makes perfect sense.

Oh and also, there are Nintendo games with achievements. They've already added them. lol

You forgot to mention that it unlocks content, unlike achievements or tropies. The other difference is it being tied to your online account. It's just a number. The only thing the system does is count.
Good job.

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AlexSays

73. Posted:

@SCAR Why would I care if the Xbox One achievement is good? Even if I buy an Xbox, it will affect me in no way whatsoever.

At least you're finally admitting achievement systems, when done right, can be a positive. It took praising the almighty Nintendo for this to happen, but we're making progress here. If unlocking game content is your preferred mechanism of achievement system, that's perfectly okay.

AlexSays

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Reala

74. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

It is most definitely different on the separate consoles. Nintendo gives you unlocks, and the others just give you a point which contributes to nothing. You still didn't answer how the Day One Xbox One achievement is good at all.

So you would be perfectly happy with achievements as long as they give you a pic for it?

there's nothing that's certain... of that you can be certain

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DefHalan

75. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

@Def There's not much else I can do for you. By comparing it to inhaling someone else's smoke, your understanding of the situation is fundamentally flawed. A similar comparison would be allowing people to smoke without having an impact on you at all.

Instead, you view people having options as being a burden to you and affecting you in some great way. Achievement systems do not affect you. They haven't affected you in previous Nintendo games (to your admission) and even my friend Scar has admitted he enjoys 360 games regardless of there being achievements.

At this point we're just being stubborn because 'we don't like them'. This is a lot like a political discussion, and much in the same way, 'just not liking them' is not a valid critique of any sort of mechanism or system.

I have shared with you ways that Achievements have affected me. I was addicted to getting all Achievements for all the games I played. It caused me to have a massive back catalog of games and to start hating the game by the time I finished it. I personally have problems with Achievements, as I have stated before. You will not be able to change my opinion on them. Am I going to actively try to ruin Achievements for everyone else? No. There are some good Achievements but they have affected me in such a way that I personally would rather not have then even as an option. That is my personal opinion.

EDIT: Also, I was so obsessed with getting Achievements that I would make accuses not to do things so I could work on getting achievements. I do not like achievements. I am sorry my personal opinion does not match yours but my opinion will not change.

Edited on by DefHalan

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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SCAR392

76. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

@SCAR Why would I care if the Xbox One achievement is good? Even if I buy an Xbox, it will affect me in no way whatsoever.

At least you're finally admitting achievement systems, when done right, can be a positive. It took praising the almighty Nintendo for this to happen, but we're making progress here. If unlocking game content is your preferred mechanism of achievement system, that's perfectly okay.

You should care about the Day One achievement, because therels only one day one. After that, it's done. You can no longer get that achievement ever again. Unlocking content is the right way to do it I guess, but I don't need/want a score count for the thing.

@Reala
I know where you're going with this... I've unlocked gamer pics on Xbox, so I already know. My point is that the score doesn't matter. The unlocks are ok, but the number usually gets in the way, because it gives a goal that doesn't entirely matter for my enjoyment of the game.

Edited on by SCAR392

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SCAR392

77. Posted:

In otherwords, Nintendo has already done a sort of achievement system on 3DS using play coins. I still don't see why that should matter when you see my online profile.

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AlexSays

78. Posted:

@SCAR I should care, because it will be inaccessible to me? Why would I care about being left out of an optional reward in an optional feature? I have like 10% of achievements across all my games, I'm not exactly weeping over the fact I'm missing out on those imaginary points.

Once again, you are unable to let people enjoy something because of your point of view. You don't like it, therefore nobody should like it. I'm not even asking you to like it, I'm just asking for you to acknowledge there's nothing inherently wrong with achievements and they can be positive, optional contributions to games.

I'm not asking the world of you here

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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AlexSays

79. Posted:

@Def This is equivalent to an alcoholic supporting prohibition because he had a drinking problem.

Now that is a good analogy.

AlexSays

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iHailPhilly

80. Posted:

Never liked them, they always took the fun out of games. Going back to do stupid, mundane tasks. Maybe something along the lines of completing a game but that is all I am interested in. They arent worth anything either.

iHailPhilly