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Topic: where do i start

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ThanosReXXX

@Heavyarms55 Did a little edit on the previous comment. Didn't expect you to respond that fast...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Heavyarms55

@ThanosReXXX It's completely fair to make that comparison. It's 2018 not 1997. It's not short-sighted at all. Those outdated devices were wonderful in their time. They were wonderful because that was the only way to enjoy those games. I put countless hours into Game Boy and GBA when that was all that existed. But that's not the case anymore and going back and playing games on those obsolete screens simply isn't the enjoyable experience it once was. We know better and have better options now. That's not to say the games themselves were bad. That would be an absurd statement. There are dozens, if not hundreds of outstanding games spread across those devices. But that doesn't mean that, in 2018, playing them on the original hardware is the best way to experience them anymore. Playing a game on a screen the size of a Pokemon card just isn't appealing anymore because we know there are better ways to do it. Straining your eyes to play an old Game Boy without a back light when that is no longer needed, is really not worth it. A huge part of why I wanted Virtual Console on Switch was so I would no longer need to play many if not all those games on a modern portable device with a bigger screen that is properly lit.

There is a big reason there is a huge market for modding retro equipment or remaking retro equipment at a higher quality, HDMI out, or modded Game Boys with better screens, speakers, etc... Heck, the only thing keeping me from buying Metal Jesus's Ultimate GBA is the 2 month wait time. (and if you have never heard of that, I suggest you look it up, it's pretty awesome!)

And side note, I love you quote about the console war!

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Switch username: Em
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx

ThanosReXXX

@Heavyarms55 Thanks, much appreciated.

Don't think we're gonna agree on the other stuff though, and I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. It's like comparing a Model T-Ford to a modern car: can't be done and it isn't a fair comparison.

Back in the day, that was a great car, and it STILL is, IF you view it in its own time frame, which is the ONLY correct way of looking at these things, no if's, and's or but's about it. It's the objective and honest way. Anything else is subjective, because of opinions, comparisons, tech differences etc.

And playing on original hardware is DEFINITELY the best way. It brings you back, gives you the proper controls, and has that overall real feel that only the actual hardware can bring you. But in all fairness; I am a total retro gamer, so you're never gonna convince me otherwise. I don't need to play my GBA games in UHD/4K at 60fps. I couldn't care less about all that. If I play old games again, I specifically want to go back to that time, want to feel like a kid or a teen again, and not play them on any modern device that breaks that illusion/immersion.

The only exception I've made so far, is the SNES Classic Mini, but that at least looks like the real deal, and has the correct controllers, so I can still kinda pretend it's an actual SNES.

And the whole modding thing: well, to each their own. I would almost say that it is a fault in modern screens that they can't display these games correctly anymore, or sometimes even not at all, due to frequency differences/output and what not.

That is also why real retro gamers keep some old screens/CRT's handy, so they'll always have the right screen to play on. A lot of what you said, is your own opinion, and that's perfectly fine, but in my opinion there's nothing wrong with a "Pokemon card-sized screen" to play my games on. I still have all my DS's: a Phat, a Lite, a DSi XL and a 3DS XL, and I still use and enjoy all of them, to this day.

And I also have no problems with my non-backlit Game Boy Color. As I said: it's the genuine hardware that can take me back, and back then, we simply didn't have all these shenanigans, so we were satisfied, and more than that, with what we had. That grey screen with those ink-like colors on it still oozes a certain charm for me, so I really don't have any of the problems with it that you or anyone else seems to have...

You see, the enjoyability IS in that charm, the simplicity or whatever you wanna call it, and THAT is what I meant by seeing (and using) these devices in their own time frame, and not bemoaning the fact that they don't have a super-duper-fantastic Full HD screen, because that is simply completely beside the point, and that is also what I meant by the person doing that, actually losing out, because you're compromising/limiting yourself by these comparisons and thoughts, and that's a shame, because if you let that go, you can enjoy these devices for what they are, and not only focus on what they aren't or can't do.

But I'm 48, and I've seen it all live, ever since playing the Pong console, on a black & white portable CRT, and maybe I'm just a bit more able to put things in (the right) perspective. And I just don't get as upset as I often see much younger gamers do, nowadays. Even an intro-cut scene that takes 10 or 20 seconds too long can already infuriate some, which to me is completely ridiculous.

I come from using the MSX home computer, with a tape deck, and games smaller than a megabyte took 10 to 15 minutes to load, so I took a shower or made myself some sandwiches while waiting. And sometimes, it didn't load correctly, which meant rewinding the tape and loading again...

And yeah, I've seen Metal Jesus's Ultimate GBA. It's really nice, but I would never buy it. Too expensive. Do like his videos, though. Watched more than a few of them, especially his retro videos...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Eel

Sometimes it's cool and all to play game boy games on the big screen, but most of the time these games were designed specifically to play on the go.

Restricting them to the big screen would feel wrong. At least to me.

I do want to find a working gb player disc though... But that's mostly because my gb micro is like 12 years old and even though it works perfectly, I don't want to use it too much.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

<My slightly less dead youtube channel>

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

HDPD

Okaaaay.i have my gba sp ags101 and got a ds lite for 10bucks from my friend since he didnt use it in 2years.thinking about a gameboy lite now

HDPD

ThanosReXXX

@HDPD Congrats, man. That's a REALLY good deal. Hope the hardware is still in good shape, though, for that price. But why would you still want a Game Boy now that you have both those handhelds and you've already got the 3DS? Between those three handhelds, you can play all of the Game Boy and DS games you would want to play.

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Eel

Maybe he meant game boy micro. It’s a fancy little way to play game boy advance.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

<My slightly less dead youtube channel>

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

ThanosReXXX

@Yosheel I actually think he meant this one:
Untitled

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Eel

It’s very possible, but he said lite.

He could either misremember the name of the rare and relatively expensive Japanese-exclusive Light console (that only plays original game boy), or mix the names of the gb micro and DS lite.

(to be honest in either case, it's a bit redundant to own one when you already have a gba and a ds)

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

<My slightly less dead youtube channel>

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

ThanosReXXX

@Yosheel To a lot of native English speakers, Lite or Light is seen as the same. So, unless you have no knowledge whatsoever about the Game Boy Micro, it would seem highly unlikely to me that you mistake a "Micro" for a "Lite", but we'll find out, hopefully, when he has the time to respond...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Vinny

Heavyarms55 wrote:

@ThanosReXXX It's completely fair to make that comparison. It's 2018 not 1997. It's not short-sighted at all. Those outdated devices were wonderful in their time. They were wonderful because that was the only way to enjoy those games. I put countless hours into Game Boy and GBA when that was all that existed. But that's not the case anymore and going back and playing games on those obsolete screens simply isn't the enjoyable experience it once was. We know better and have better options now. That's not to say the games themselves were bad. That would be an absurd statement. There are dozens, if not hundreds of outstanding games spread across those devices. But that doesn't mean that, in 2018, playing them on the original hardware is the best way to experience them anymore. Playing a game on a screen the size of a Pokemon card just isn't appealing anymore because we know there are better ways to do it. Straining your eyes to play an old Game Boy without a back light when that is no longer needed, is really not worth it. A huge part of why I wanted Virtual Console on Switch was so I would no longer need to play many if not all those games on a modern portable device with a bigger screen that is properly lit.

There is a big reason there is a huge market for modding retro equipment or remaking retro equipment at a higher quality, HDMI out, or modded Game Boys with better screens, speakers, etc... Heck, the only thing keeping me from buying Metal Jesus's Ultimate GBA is the 2 month wait time. (and if you have never heard of that, I suggest you look it up, it's pretty awesome!)

And side note, I love you quote about the console war!

Completely agree, to me the older screens just look incredibly tiny after playing on bigger screens, not to mention the quality of the screens themselves improved drastically.
Earlier this year I sold off my AGS-101. I hadn't touched it in years and to me it's not pratictical to keep a lot of hardware around.

Edited on by Vinny

This blue eye perceives all things conjoined. The past, the future, and the present. Everything flows and all is connected. This eye is not merely seen reality. It is touching the truth. Open the eye of truth... There is nothing to fear.

PSN: mrgomes2004

Eel

I only keep two very old SPs and a very broken-but-functional DS around because of pokemon.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

<My slightly less dead youtube channel>

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

ThanosReXXX

@Vinny Fair enough if that's your personal opinion, with which I have no issues whatsoever, but no offense: like him, you are sorely missing the specific point I was making, and in that point, I was absolutely and indisputably right.

Could of course also be an age thing, me being almost double his and more than double your age, which gives me a completely different (and probably broader) perspective on things. And me being a genuine retro gamer also factors into things...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

HDPD

Um..i dont want to actually play on them.i want a collection.and i meant the gameboy light.and yeah the hardware is very good
Also thanks alot for the support. :0
Didnt expect so many answers

Edited on by HDPD

HDPD

Eel

Yeah that makes sense. I honestly don’t see many people wanting a GB Light to actually play. It’s more of a collectors item.

Bloop.

<My slightly less dead youtube channel>

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

Vinny

ThanosReXXX wrote:

@Vinny Fair enough if that's your personal opinion, with which I have no issues whatsoever, but no offense: like him, you are sorely missing the specific point I was making, and in that point, I was absolutely and indisputably right.

Could of course also be an age thing, me being almost double his and more than double your age, which gives me a completely different (and probably broader) perspective on things. And me being a genuine retro gamer also factors into things...

From your post, I can see you have a lot of nostalgia for your old consoles. I'm not close minded or anything because of my age, I just have a different perspective.

I really enjoy older games, it's just that I don't have a lot of attachment for the hardware it's being played on. The SP? It was a really nice hardware at the time, but it has some pretty annoying flaws. It doesn't have a headphone jack, so you need to buy an adaptor, and some motion compatible games don't work properly because the cartridge slot is upside down.

The original GBA? Great grip but the dark screen was terrible. It was what was avaliable at the time. It was tolerable back then, but should we use go back to something so flawed because we didn't mind it back then?

3D DS games also work better on a 3DS, because the DS does not have an analog stick and the 3DS does. In this case I do think it's actually better than the original hardware.

I grew up with both VHS and DVD, but if I want to watch a movie I watched on VHS I'm gonna watch the HD version, because it just looks much better.

No offense to you either but you seem to have a bit of a "kids nowadays" mentality.

"But I'm 48, and I've seen it all live, ever since playing the Pong console, on a black & white portable CRT, and maybe I'm just a bit more able to put things in (the right) perspective. And I just don't get as upset as I often see much younger gamers do, nowadays. Even an intro-cut scene that takes 10 or 20 seconds too long can already infuriate some, which to me is completely ridiculous.

I come from using the MSX home computer, with a tape deck, and games smaller than a megabyte took 10 to 15 minutes to load, so I took a shower or made myself some sandwiches while waiting. And sometimes, it didn't load correctly, which meant rewinding the tape and loading again..."

An older person from an older generation than yours would also see your MSX and Pong consoles as "Damn those kids nowadays with their videogames and computers. Back in my time we played REAL ping pong with real balls".

All I'm saying is that conflict between generations is absolutely fruitless. You say newer gamers are spoiled by HD graphics, while the generations before said your generation was spoiled by technology itself and the previous generations said the previous generation was spoiled for having electric energy at all. You see? It's an endless cycle.

Edited on by Vinny

This blue eye perceives all things conjoined. The past, the future, and the present. Everything flows and all is connected. This eye is not merely seen reality. It is touching the truth. Open the eye of truth... There is nothing to fear.

PSN: mrgomes2004

ThanosReXXX

@Vinny I do, and nice and decent of you to at least understand that. My main point is that whatever you play or use, see it in it's own bubble/time frame, and don't compare a 20 year old handheld with a 2020 smart phone (statement slightly over-exaggerated on purpose, so no typo, just in case). That is a VERY skewed comparison, that makes no sense whatsoever.

And for clarity's sake: I never implied that gamers are spoiled, it's just that they're often quite impatient, or have no knowledge of or respect for what has come before. Without that Pong console, they never even would have had their 4K console.

And I enjoy current gen games just as much as the next gamer, so it's not that either. But I just don't have to see or play my GBA, SNES or whatever equal to or lower than 16 bit console's games in 1080p/60fps. That's not how I remember those games and that breaks the immersion for me. But that part is specifically my opinion, so I know that although some will agree, there will also be plenty that don't, and that's just fine. (having said that, I agree on the dark screen of the original GBA, which is why I play all my GBA games on the SP. But I do sometimes play on the original as well, just for old time's sake. But only in daylight... )

And although I'm not offended, I can assure you that I'm anything but a "get off my lawn" type of elderly miser...

The stuff you quoted in bold, was just some examples. The thing with the intro cut scene was actually a discussion I had the other day on here in another topic, where the complaint was not being able to skip a game's intro, and that really kind of baffled me, because in general, those only last a minute or two at most, and to be honest, there are far more important things to worry about or get frustrated over.

Hm... damn, now I actually AM sounding old...

Anyway, I'll stop now. This discussion has already derailed the original topic enough as it is...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Heavyarms55

@ThanosReXXX You're right, I don't think we are going to agree. But You don't seem to understand the point I was making. Not once did I say a single thing about HD or 4K. My point we primarily about the size and brightness of the screen. I am not saying those devices were poor quality in their context, but that context is past. Perhaps you can trick yourself with nostalgia and pretend to enjoy squinting at a tiny, obsolete screen like you did 20 years ago. But not everyone has that ability. A lot of us cannot separate ourselves from the present like that. Frankly please spare me your "correct" opinions and "no ifs ands or buts" as that is rather rude. They are opinions, there is no "correct" opinion. That only applies to verifiable facts. That's what's good about opinions though. They don't have to be the same and we can agree to disagree.

On your comparison to the Model T, of course it was a fantastic car, both historically significant and a well built and versatile machine for its era. But today its only real value is as a collectors item or for hobbyists and recreational driving. No one is seriously gonna use it as a regular vehicle anymore. In my opinion outdated hardware is much the same way. It can be fun to use in shorter amounts for nostalgia, but its mostly a collectors item these days. Though consoles are easier to enjoy because they can be played on a CRT or modded to output HDMI to modern TVs. They aren't limited to tiny, dim screens.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Switch username: Em
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx

ThanosReXXX

@Heavyarms55 Okay, fair enough. My bad on the first part. But for me it's not about tricking myself into believing something, it's about ACTUALLY reliving something, and if I play old games in a far higher resolution and much better screen quality, then it breaks the illusion for me, that's my main gripe with it.

But that's just my sentiment, and like I said to the other poster, I can understand that someone else feels different, but in general, and trying to look at it objectively, it doesn't all of a sudden make those old consoles or handhelds bad, or a lesser experience, because both the hardware and the games were in tune with each other, like all HD hardware is now.

And no offense, but how can it be so difficult for you or anyone else to dive back into your own childhood memories and have a taste of reliving them by replaying these old games? Seems entirely possible to me, and I don't possess any special skills in that regard that separate me from the crowd. It's just being able to remember when, and get a sense of that same sentiment that you had back then.

One tiny nuance in the whole thing: although my "no if's, and's or but's about it" statement was perhaps a bit harshly put, it wasn't an opinion. I tried to emphasize the whole objectivity thing and seeing things in their own bubble, instead of comparing them to hardware that they could never in a million years compete with, so simply put, for its time, these consoles and handhelds were the best there was, and even when played today, you can still see them as such, with the right reference point, so you compare the SNES to the Genesis, and not to the PS4 (or more in general: compare things to other things from the same era to make a fair comparison), because that really makes no sense whatsoever. That's not opinion, that's just logic.

Now, if you want to gauge/estimate how much things have improved since then, that's a situation where comparing to modern hardware actually IS valid and warranted.

Agreed on the using old hardware in shorter amounts, but that is exactly what I meant: I play these old consoles to take a trip down memory lane, if you will. Either because of fond memories of the hardware, or for a specific game itself, and that is indeed always in short bursts, or at most for the evening.

Anyway, that's all for me about this. Like I already said to the other poster, we've derailed the original topic enough as it is, so thanks for the discussion, and I genuinely wish you a good evening.

And regardless of the difference in opinion, no hard feelings, far as I'm concerned.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Heavyarms55

@ThanosReXXX Absolutely, no hard feelings. You've been a very reasonable and pleasant person to chat with. You still seem to be missing my point that I am not disagreeing entirely with you. You aren't wrong about the devices having been the best (reasonably priced) technology for their era. That is 100% correct. But my point was, it's not that era anymore. Judging things but 1997 standards in 2018 just doesn't make sense to me unless you are talking about judging them in a vacuum only against other options that were available at that time. Which I don't see why you would do unless you're trying to put together some kind of retrospective.

I am not really sure what illusion you are talking about breaking. Do you pretend you are a kid again when you play games from that era? I do enjoy replaying games from when I was a kid, but I will never have that experience of playing them the first time, and seeing them through the unjaded eyes of child-me. Perhaps that is the reason. I am a pretty cynical and jaded person. I cannot really separate myself from who I am now and pretend I am a kid again. So for me, there is no illusion to break. I just want to play the game in the best quality I can afford reasonably. Not that long ago I did go back and play through a game all the way through on Game Boy Color, and once the nostalgia wore off - after about 2 hours, the rest of it was a neck ache and strained eyes. It was neat but by the end I considered it not really worth it. But that is just me.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Switch username: Em
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx

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