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Topic: So are Metroidvania style Castlevania games widely disliked by gamers these days?

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Bass_X0

1. Posted:

Reading the Castlevania 3DS review, people are glad that the series has moved on from Metroidvania style games. They are my favorite style of Castlevania games, even now. Even though there have been several, I still enjoy that type of game and would enjoy a new game with that style.

The exploration, platforming, collecting and levelling up is what appeals to me most.

Are you now bored of these type of games or do you still enjoy them?

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cheetahman91

2. Posted:

The only Metroidvania that I've played was SOTN, and I thought it was excellent. I was pretty disappointed when I found out that the new 3DS game wasn't going to be a Metroidvania.

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Bass_X0

3. Posted:

You should look up the DS Castlevania games. You would quite enjoy them.

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Dr_Groose

4. Posted:

I still love metroidvania style games. They give a sense of adventure and they tend to have good replay value.

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Geonjaha

5. Posted:

Well first of all I hate the fact that a so called genre is named after two games. We don't call Platformers Mario'ers or JRPG's Dragon-Fantasy/Final-Quest games.

Yes, the exploration is fun - but without a really well made game it can easily become tedious. Platforming isn't exclusive to branching gameplay - and Castlevania 1/3/4 had plenty of platforming. Having linear gameplay means that more effort can be put into designing that one path. To be honest Simon's Quest is the ultimate example of why many of these concepts don't work as well as they could - they just usually aren't that extreme. There are plenty of 'Metroidvania' games that I love, but when you choose to go that route instead of a more linear approach problems come up more easily unless it's really well designed.

Levelling up can become tedious, the game can become less fun as you lose the challenge simply by playing more, the path forward can be very unclear, paths can be unforgettable and indistinguishable, having to backtrack is annoying - and while doing so killing enemies will either be really easy or an annoying chore simply because you've already done it before.

Edited on by Geonjaha

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moomoo

6. Posted:

Guacamelee! is a Metroidvania game that just came out, and people seem to be loving it. I think this is less about gamers thinking about the design getting stale and more about them trying to convince themselves to enjoy the inferior game-design featured in Mirror of Fate, which doesn't hold a candle to the linear games, either.

@Geonjaha For what it's worth, the Castlevania games are pretty consistent in fantastic level design. Aria of Sorrow, Symphony of the Night ,and Dawn of Sorrow were emmaculately made, with level design rivaling Rondo of Blood (in my opinion).

Edited on by moomoo

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RevolverLink

7. Posted:

I wouldn't say that they're widely disliked; plenty of players still seem to enjoy those games. It's just that, as with any long-running series with a somewhat large following, fans and gamers in general seem to be pretty split on what they want from Castlevania, which is a part of why Mirror of Fate's reception was so wildly different from reviewer to reviewer and person to person. Some people (such as myself) want more SotN-style entries and for Iga to stay prominently involved with development, some people want a return to the gameplay of the classic games, some people want more of the God of War-flavored Lords of Shadow games and others want the series to go in a different direction.

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Tasuki

8. Posted:

Honestly I think the Castlevania series is just a prime example of different strokes for different folks. While I prefer the Metroidvania style over the straight platform action of early Castlevanias, I dont hate the older ones. For me it just seems that the Metroidvania styles have more meat to them than say the older Castlevanias.

For example older Castlevania games. Ok I go to the right whip a skeleton. Ok now up the stairs hit some candles, oh look I got the holy water, keep gong right whip some more skeletons and jump over the medusa head fight the boss at the end.

Now take a Metroidvania style there are different weapons to get you gain levels and that boss that you couldn't beat at level 10 is now a piece of cake at level 20, or with a different weapon. Oh I cant get to that platform now cause I need double jump. Ok cool now that I have double jump I can get to the platform and see where that path takes me.

Now this is entirely my opinion but for me I just tend to get bored of the older Castlevaina and I also get frustrated due to their high difficulty. But hey thats just me.

Oh and for the record my top two Metriodvania Castlevanias are SotN and PoR.

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WaveBoy

9. Posted:

Two metroidvania's were enough for me. the insane selection of weapons makes the combat system feel completely overwhelming and totaly convoluted, and there just isn't that much variety between the metroidvania games that make each and every one of them standout vs the traditional vanias. Plus, i prefer the steep challenge, platforming and music of the traditionalvania games rather than trying to cover every single little nook and cranny. It just works better for metroid, at least i find.

I still had a great experience with Dawn of Sorrow(Not so much SOTN) and the boss battles were absolutely ACE. However, it's too easy for anybody to abuse the HP system and stock up on health potions....THAT is what can make these games all too easy. I avoided the potions and used NONE of them when going toe to toe with the bosses and because of that i ended up with a much more intense, satisfying and rewarding experience where i had to learn from my mistakes by mastering the patterns and kicking Drac A**. B-) Instead of some noob relying on the 20 extra health potions he has stored in trusty Belmont bag.lol What's the point? It's like somebody abusing the E-Tanks in mega man because they're too lazy to master the Boss patterns and what have you. It's basically cheating and they're getting a watered down lack luster experience instead of trying to spend the time and dealing with a good challenge.

As for that new sell out 3DS Castlevania game? Thee' worst 2D incarnation the series has seen yet! It's like a 2D god of War with uncreative environments, forgettable music, the combo system and the way you perform moves is just tiring and unsatisfying and Simon Belmont(whoever the hell it is) controls like a truck... He must be severely constipated from all of the wall meat he's been munchin' on. The only redeeming factor is the stereoscopic 3D which is Outstanding stuff! :o Anyways! Hopefully Konami Japan gets it together and releases another True 2D ClassicVania game! ReBirth was cute, but I want another spiritual successor to SCIV. Bring back the dangly whip baby! :*

As is.... Konami is another example of a developer who has gone Bad Dudes-bad. Contra/Bill Rizer seems to be on some whacky alien vacation, Silent Hill has been outsourced to untalented western devs who jus don't GET the series as evident with their terrible sequals(outside of the decent Wii version of Shatterred memories) and now Castlevania has been turned into a God of War clone. Elebits is easily the most original and unique innovative effort they've come out with in years.

But yup! Most will agree that Late 80's & 90's Capcom & Konami were the absolute ALF! I truley miss those days.

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Ryno

10. Posted:

I prefer classic old-school Castlevania because if you have Petey sized balls you play Classicvania. If you like lollygagging then you play Metroidvania.

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kkslider5552000

11. Posted:

you forgot to say "said no one ever". No one of value is sick of Metroidvanias.

at most people were just sick of Castlevania relying on the same thing it did in the late 90s. Which is ironic considering how Lords of Shadows alone blatantly ripped off other games more than the series has ever ripped itself off in any way.

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Bass_X0

12. Posted:

"Metroidvania" is just a term that stuck over the years. Marioers and Final-Questers aren't terms that were ever used, let alone stuck like Metroidvania. Itself invented to say how different SotN was to previous Castlevania games.

I quite enjoyed all the GBA and DS games. However those GBA games are very dated now as the series has improved considerably with each new game. Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia being the best on Nintendo. Its wrong to say only two should exist since that indicates only SotN and the first GBA game should exist.

As for difficulty, you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Its soley up to the player, not the designer. Although "easy" tends to require hours longer playtime to make it easier. This is better to me than the difficulty of the old games. If you really can't do a section or boss, then you're screwed.

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ogo79

13. Posted:

i like em all!

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Retro_on_theGo

14. Posted:

I didn't mind them but I'm honestly getting tired of Castlevania doing metroidvania after metroidvania. I don't hate those type of games. I just want a classic Castlevania.

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NImH

15. Posted:

@Retro I feel the same way. They've become tediously repetetive. I long for a good old action exploration-heavy Castlevania.

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Karakato

16. Posted:

I personally prefer the Metroidvania type games over the classics just because I am a fan of the metroid exploration formula. I just like how you start of basically with no power and you feel like you are restricted when you first wander the rooms of the castle, then you get the feeling of progression as you make dwell deeper into the area. The DS Games especially Order of Ecclesia were the best and I am not against the idea of Iga would work on another game for the 3DS, if he still works for Konami that is.

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nakamura

17. Posted:

I like all styles of Castlevania if they play well and feel like Castlevania. Mirror of Fate doesn't really feel Castlevania, more like a generic western platformer but it's still an ok game.

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hiptanaka

18. Posted:

I generally feel Metroidvanias these days are very sloppy. There's not much finesse in the core gameplay, and the abilities are predictable to the point of being keycards. "Oh, there's a ledge I can't reach, I'll wait until I have the double jump, then". 30 minutes later, double jump is obtained. As for Castlevania, the later entries are certainly sloppier than SotN, but they are still good (sometimes great). I think the problem there is the amount of rehash.

It's not enough to just be a Metroidvania in order to be a good game, but when they are good, they are often my favorites. Super Metroid, SotN, La Mulana are all superb games that have enough scope, mystery and experimentation encouraging gameplay to support the Metroidvania structure.

Edited on by hiptanaka

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SwerdMurd

19. Posted:

I gotta say.... I'm a sucker for platformers of all shapes and sizes. I loved the entirety of the Metroidvania series - especially the DS iterations, and still feel that Order of Ecclesia is one of the finest examples of this gameplay style. Metroid: Zero Mission was another spectacularly-executed game in the style. SoTN was good in its day - one of the best actually - but there are a ton of underlying issues. Each form tying up a button (and not being very useful outside of the few places required for exploration), incredibly bizarre equipment balance, the fact that shields exist, the fact that everything does 1 damage the whole game long.... I still enjoy it, but it's tough to deny that the later entries cleaned up a lot of things and perfectly executed the difficulty I wanted.

However, Mirror of Fate was an incredibly ambitious game, and one I greatly enjoyed. I love the darker take on the universe that Mercurysteam has crafted - Lords of Shadow was a blast both to play and experience, and they did a damn fine job of pulling off the concept in 2d. If anything, the game wasn't long enough. The story was cool, the presentation was good, the controls did a great job of covering for the 3DS's lack of horsepower / resulting framerate issues in spots, and overall I enjoyed all the time spent. Those who've been scared of by the change in direction - give it a try. Simon is the man.

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nakamura

20. Posted:

I found Lords of Shadow to be a wonderfully dull experience. It just felt like a lifeless God of War clone. Overly frantic combat mixed with dull music and bland but sometimes pretty locations. I don't hate it, it's just well, dull. Too many cutscenes too.

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