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Topic: Lets talk about Sonic - lets get it all out - lets deal with this...

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mrmicawber

1. Posted:

Was SOnic ever good? I mean, really, really good?

The big push today is for SEGA to 'fix' Sonic, and bring the quality back up to the 'classic' Sonics. But I have to say - Sonic, I am just not that in to you - ever.

Look at Sonic Adventure - this game was hyped to high heavean, and it is mediocre to the core. No, it is not the only mediocre platformer of the era to be over praised, DK64 comes to mind immediately, but what was the big deal on Sonic? Was it all graphics hype, a game that slipped the blurry bounds of the N64/PS1 era? Was it all Sonic is cool hype - despite the horrible, horrible cut scenes in this game? Was it just the speed - impressive graphics at a high clip, like 2-d Sonic to life, the 23 year old reviewer of that day getting to relieve his 13 year old memeories of Sonic? At any rate Sonic Adventure does not hold up today, and I believe if you could wipe the collective memory banks of the game media and had them review it today, I think it would score just the same as Sonic and Black (k)Night aond Auuuuggg-oooooohhh Werewolf in Green Hill Zone. Do you really think Sonic advcenture is head and shoulders above current Sonic???

Which brings me to the original Sonic the Hedgehog - what is the big deal on this game? I downloaded it on the VC and regret it. Sure it is not the only VC platformer I regret buyting, Kirby on SNES comes to mind - but what was the big deal on this game? It is just no that fun, the boss fights are junk and the stages not very memorable. Seriously if Mario 3 and Mario 2 are 10's, where does this game stack up? A 3?

Not being a turd or a troll, just my impressions of Sonic _ I always wonder what the fuss is about?

Side note - SEGA announces a Sonic Mario Kart Clone - and the trailer is a minute and a half long CG movie starring Sonic the Cool. ZERO gameplay in the trailer - to me that is the difference between Nintendo and SEGA - SEGA is style, Nintendo is substance.
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Machu

2. Posted:

I'm a fan of the original game, I enjoyed Adventure on the DC as I did Secret Rings on the Wii (kinda). But that's it!!!

If you are looking for some useful sega-related input from me, I'm afraid this is all I can manage. :)

Edited on by Machu

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Adam

3. Posted:

I recently read (and it's a wonder this is the first time I've heard this) an opinion that the speed sections of Sonic are rewards for platforming. I've always heard it's so fun because of the speed, but I find it all too dull because you're basically on auto-pilot, and the faster you go, the less of the level you get to see and enjoy. Looking at it as a sort of reward instead of part of the game play itself does make more sense, but all that leaves is some slow and awkward platforming to fill in the gaps. It's just not a good platformer, and I don't know how to explain why.

When I was a kid I played through Sonic 2 and 3 multiple times because my friends and I loved the idea of 2P-simultaneous platforming, which Mario unfortunately didn't offer (though in retrospect I think I enjoy taking turns at least as much), and because I loved the boss fights. I haven't played them in years, so maybe they are pretty bad. I don't know. But really, they could not be worse than Mario World's bosses, which were really a joke. You'd basically have to be trying to die to lose at some of them, like the two who walk up the walls and ceiling then fall down at you, or the one who spins around on the ground then springs up and shoots a fireball.

I think Sonic 2 and 3 (especially with Knuckles expansion) have enough redeeming qualities to be decent games. You really picked the wrong one of the originals to download as the game really isn't fun without a Tails player, in my experience (versus mode is fun, too), but to be fair I have barely played the original. But even then, it doesn't hold a light to Mario or many other platformers.

Rating them a 3 would be an exaggerated response, I think. If 5 were truly an average game, I would say these are 5- or 6-star games.

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CowLaunch

4. Posted:

I think the potential of Sonic was limited to begin with. Run really fast. Granted, it wasn't just that, but that was the aspect of the games that made them different from other platformers. After a while, & pehaps even after a certain age I think it loses it's appeal. There's little scope for expansion on such a model because any differentation in level design is just going to be sped past by the player. Mario games however kept introducing new ideas & evolving in a way that the Sonic series never could & I think this inherent flaw is evident in how the franchise has gone in the last few years. All good things must come to an end, but hopefully Mario has a bit more life in him than Sonic.

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Odnetnin

5. Posted:

I agree with Adam about the game(s) often feeling like it's on autopilot.

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Cheezy

6. Posted:

I actually started playing Sonic Adventure after not doing so for like 6 months a couple weeks ago and beat it just then, It's just such an awesome game...

Edited on by Cheezy

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SonicMaster

7. Posted:

S-sonic genesis-s 5 or-r 6? What cruel world am I in? curls up into ball

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Mabbit

8. Posted:

ive always believed sonics been hugely overrated, and also got more overrated as his games got worse
the original sonic games were just running full speed down a few different tracks

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mrmicawber

9. Posted:

hopefully Mario has a bit more life in him than Sonic.

There is no 'hopefully' - Mario always delivers.

IGN: The holiday Wii lineup looks thin for the hardcore crowd. We see this. Gamers see this. What, if anything, is Nintendo planning to address it?

Oh good, I am neither a gamer or hardcore. Saves me from having to be IGNorant.
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MetalMario

10. Posted:

The 2D ones were great, the ones on DS and PSP I actually liked.

But the 3D ones are slowly killing the series. The only good one was Sonic Adventure 2: Battle. (Or you know, just Sonic Adventure) And Sonic & the Secret Rings is like a big pile of crap. I highly regret getting that as a GIFT. Ew...

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Adam

11. Posted:

mrmicawber wrote:

hopefully Mario has a bit more life in him than Sonic.

There is no 'hopefully' - Mario always delivers.

I have to agree. Mario latest excursions may not be his best, but they are still a few notches above any other series I can think of. He is the epitome of platformer, and as long as Nintendo can think up new levels and a few new power-up ideas, I will be helplessly in their pockets. If Nintendo released a Mario game with a level editor I could sell every game I own and never look back. There is unlimited potential.

SonicMaster wrote:

S-sonic genesis-s 5 or-r 6? What cruel world am I in? curls up into ball

Haha, I'm so sorry you had to see this. :D

Edited on by Adam

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Xkhaoz

12. Posted:

I think that Sonic is still good. If only X-treme came out. And it's just been IGN being the stupidest idiots ever. IGN just hates Sonic. They do.

Edited on by Xkhaoz

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Adam

13. Posted:

What does IGN have to do with any of this, and what is X-treme?

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The_Ink_Pit_Ox

14. Posted:

I love Sonic. I had Sonic, Sonic 2, and Sonic Chaos for GG as a kid along with Spinball and Drift. I also had Sonic Mega Collection and still have Gems. I also have the Genesis Collection for PS2. I've downloaded Sonic & Sonic Chaos for VC, and still have Sonic Adventure DX. I had Secret Rings for awhile, but it was stupid so I sold it. I also have Sonic Rush. I have Sega Superstars Tennis and looking to get All-Stars Racing.

Edited on by The_Ink_Pit_Ox

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pixelman

15. Posted:

The Sonic Rush games really suffered from the autopilot problem. Most of the game was just holding right and pressing the jump button when you slam against a wall.

Sonic Unleashed's daylight levels were really fun, I must say. You can see a lot farther and thus you have more time to react, and you're still going really fast. The drift mechanics and the semi-2D parts were awesome too. It's a shame that Sonic Team decided to make 99% of the game a halfass attempt at a Ristar clone instead of perfecting the Sonic engine, but well, we all know that Sonic Team is run by a first-class moron.

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Knux

16. Posted:

All 2D Sonic games [even the recent ones] are awesome. But, Sonic has gone downhill since Sega left the console business, all his 3D games after that are medicore to downright terrible. Sonic 06 is also one of the worst games of all time.

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SwerdMurd

17. Posted:

All Sonic games of all types are sub-par. Yes, this includes 2D. None of the systems-at-play are any good--rings were and are lame. The games are ugly (large blocky backgrounds to make speed-scrolling look smooth didn't impress me), they're easy, the collision is pathetic (PATHETIC! ALL OF IT!), the stage design at least started out inspired in the first one before devolving into nothing but speed-breaking sections that exemplified awful acceleration and bad platforming physics, and the 3D ones contained all these problems with the addition of bad camera angles.

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grenworthshero

18. Posted:

Okay, this bothers me. I'm not the biggest sonic fan, and I grew up with Nintendo during the huge Sega/Nintendo rivalry, but I can admit Sonic is awesome. I'm terrible at it, but Sonic is just completely different from Mario, and in a great way. It's not for everyone, and I have the Sonic Mega Collection just because it's kind of a requirement. They're classics, and they're great games, but I just can't do Sonic.

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mrmicawber

19. Posted:

This is kind of my point - Sonic lives off of the long dead, over rated, 'Nintendo/SEGA' rivalry.

But Sonic has never been as big or as good as Mario, and Mario has always got their in front of Sonic, be it in arcade, in 2-d platformers, in 3-d platformers. Mario has not neccesarily been the 'first' on all kinds of platforming, but he has been far and a way the best and the most definitive.

It is a pretty simple hypothesis on my part - no way 2-d Sonic has held up today or ever held a candle to 2-d Mario, no way Sonic Adventure holds up as well as Mario 64, and obviously the current crop of Sonic's pale in comparison to Galaxy (with the presumable great SMG2 and NSMW in the wings.)

New Marios are expected to be great, a new Sonic is sure to bring fanboy moaning about how good the series used to be. But I do not buy it, I do not think Sonic has ever been toe to toe with Mario (in games), simple as that. This is not even a coke/Pepsi thing, sonic was simply 'better' back in the day on his own systems.

In fact their are only a handful of non mario platformers I really care about, DKJB, Yoshi Touch and Go, Yoshi Island (super mario world 2), Banjo Kazzoie. I think that is it, I believe that is my list of top tier platformers, if you add in SMG, M64, SMW, SM3 SM2, SMB, and MB's. With apologies to DK.

Final point SEGA is a big mascot copycat with Sonic - Sonic Party, Sonic RPG, Sonic Racing, you name it. Sonic is always a day late and a dollar short aping Mario. Really Sonic's 'reputation' is just an extension of the Genesis/SNES rivalry as a system figurehead and his resume is dog crap. Now that Dreamcast has marked an end to SEGA consoles, their is no need to hype Sonic as the 'cool' platforming alternative to Mario - the emporer has no clothes.

PS - Adam I would love a Mario level editor, will be shocked if Nintendo ever does it. I wish they would make an anviersary gaem of Mario 3 with the same engine, no extra moves, just the level design baby@

Edited on by mrmicawber

IGN: The holiday Wii lineup looks thin for the hardcore crowd. We see this. Gamers see this. What, if anything, is Nintendo planning to address it?

Oh good, I am neither a gamer or hardcore. Saves me from having to be IGNorant.
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IAmNotWill

20. Posted:

Im going to have to agree with most people here on this one. Even though the 2D games feel like autopilot, i still enjoy them (except for the PSP ones, those suck IMO). Though they are not the 9/10 or 10/10 some fans think. The 3D ones, just.... no. It seems when Sega tries something new with this franchise it fails.

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