@TwilightPhantom
With all due respect, OP did say in his original post that he meant if it was overrated as a game today, not based on how innovative or revolutionary it was in the 90's.
As for the N64 vs. PS1 thing, I did not care at all about the PS1 during its era, and when I play it today it doesn't look that great. Just look at Cloud from FFVII. He literally looks like a block, with blocky arms, and with the head of a cube. It was a 32-bit system compared to the N64's 64-bit technology.
Final Fantasy VII is probably not a good comparison, since it started development in the early days of the PS1, and in the day it was actually applauded for brilliant visuals (Check old magazines and early internet articles). Better examples of what it could do would be Final Fantasy VIII ( http://youtu.be/IOMReDD0aaU ) or Ridge Racer Type 4 ( http://youtu.be/GieZGf7A3W8 ). The Nintendo 64 being 64-bit really does not give it any technological benefit at all, after 32-bits, it was pretty much just a marketing tactic. The Dreamcast actually has as many, if not more, bits than the Xbox. That being said, the Nintendo 64 should be a more powerful console on paper (In 3D, it really can't compete with the PS1 and especially the Saturn in 2D), but due to questionably designed hardware, games on the PS1 tend to look as good and usually better than N64 games. Especially when you count the PS1's FMV and pre-rendered backgrounds (Both of which you can see in FF VIII).
And yes, some of the N64 peripherals were clunky in retrospect, but when you were a kid you didn't really mind all of that, since you didn't know any better at the time. PS1 proceeded to copy the N64's rumble feature idea.
The reason they're so clunky and difficult to use is mainly because Nintendo thought it swell to put them all in the same port on the controller (Which juts out in an annoying way, IMO). Yes, the PS1 copied the rumble, but at least it didn't require an accessory (Which then in turned required tons of batteries).
@8BitSamurai
Well, to each their own. It's debatable whether the PS1 looked better than the N64. I've heard arguments from both sides. I'm just saying from the games I played, I didn't think it looked better than the N64. Some people say the N64 had better character models, whilst the PS1's environments looked better. And yes, other people told me FFVII was not the best example, and that Vagrant Story is the best looking PS1 game, but I still don't see how it obliterates the N64 in all aspects. There were a lot of pixelated textures on the PS1 (like you could literally see the pixels sticking out), something which the N64 didn't have.
As for whether SM64 is a great game today, that completely depends upon the person. I've seen many people play it today who didn't like it at all. And then some who did like it a lot. Though here's a fun fact: Even Gabe Newell cites Super Mario 64 as one of the top 3 defining games of his life. If it was the end of the world, and he could meet his doom playing one game, it would be Super Mario 64 for him. I still think it's a pretty fun game to this day. And prefer it over the Galaxy games. There is something about that game that NIntendo has failed to recapture since then.
Well, to each their own. It's debatable whether the PS1 looked better than the N64. I've heard arguments from both sides. I'm just saying from the games I played, I didn't think it looked better than the N64. Some people say the N64 had better character models, whilst the PS1's environments looked better. And yes, other people told me FFVII was not the best example, and that Vagrant Story is the best looking PS1 game, but I still don't see how it obliterates the N64 in all aspects. There were a lot of pixelated textures on the PS1 (like you could literally see the pixels sticking out), something which the N64 didn't have.
Yeah, you're right on a lot of that. The Nintendo 64 definitely had better specs on paper, but Nintendo admitted to making it hard to develop for in an attempt to weed out bad developers, and there were problems just with the way it worked (With textures in particular). Also, the N64's RAM could be expanded, which did yield improved visuals.
Without getting into too much detail (I don't really have too advanced of a knowledge in these things, TBH), The N64 has native anti-aliasing, so the visuals are much less jagged, and it has a faster processor and pushes out more polygons. What it did badly was textures (They were usually blurred and often just distorted), and tons of fog. Also, the inherent problems of storage with the cartridges.
The PS1 was just much more flexible, and easier to work with, so developers really used it to its full potential. It benefited from the CD format (It can do FMV and can hold many, many more art assets), and better texture memory. It didn't really have any native anti-aliasing though, so a lot of jaggies and aliased models going around. Also, more pop-in.
Basically, as far as I'm aware (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no tech nut)
N64
Smooth edges
Cleaner
More detail
Can improve visuals and other aspects with expanded RAM
Blurry and distorted textures
Tons of fog
No FMV (At least very, very rarely)
Not many art assets
PS1
Better textures
Developers made better use of the hardware
FMV
CD format (More art assets)
One hundred trillion jaggies per square inch on the screen
More pop-in
Less detail, more pixelation
I'm no tech expert though, so I'm just going with what I've gathered over my gaming time, and the games seem to agree.
That's in 3D though, in 2D, the N64 really just cannot compete. Neither have dedicated 2D hardware (unlike the Saturn), but the PS1 can carry itself along respectably with the CD format and better texture memory. The N64, though, has neither of those, and was pretty much crippled from the get-go for 2D (And only a handful of 2D games were ever released for it).
Personally, my vote easily goes to the PS1. The lack of all the blur, the distortion, and the fog make it so. Not to mention, more art and FMVs, and developers just used what was there better, and respectable 2D performance. But honestly, it's kind of personal preference (Again, only in 3D), since they're both different and have visual ups and downs (And heck, they both look awful by today's standards!). I've pretty much devoted myself as a disciple to the grey 32-bit top loader (That and the SNES), though, so I suppose it's not really a surprise I prefer the PS1 visuals. But part of it is, the N64 should have hands-down better visuals, since it was released a year later, in a time of rapidly developing 3D hardware. The fact that it's up for debate says something negative for the N64. Though I will note I think the Nintendo 64's visual issues are the least of it's problems.
As for whether SM64 is a great game today, that completely depends upon the person. I've seen many people play it today who didn't like it at all. And then some who did like it a lot. Though here's a fun fact: Even Gabe Newell cites Super Mario 64 as one of the top 3 defining games of his life. If it was the end of the world, and he could meet his doom playing one game, it would be Super Mario 64 for him. I still think it's a pretty fun game to this day. And prefer it over the Galaxy games. There is something about that game that NIntendo has failed to recapture since then.
Fair enough, as for me, the controls frustrate me to no end, and the gameplay I find to be rather lackluster.
I believe the Saturn was the most capable hardware of the time but devs didn't know what to do with it. It was ahead of it's time being multi-core. But seeing what Yu Suzuki was doing with it with the Saturn build of Shenmue is incredible.
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I know this is kinda off topic, but whatever. I personally think the Nintendo 64 handles 3D graphics quite a bit better than the PS1. There's no denying that the PS1 had some beautiful 2D sprite work, but when it comes to 3D models, I like the look of games on the N64 a bit more. I think games like Ocarina of Time and Banjo Kazooie still look pretty good today, obviously dated, but still good.
ThePirateCaptain
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I believe the Saturn was the most capable hardware of the time but devs didn't know what to do with it. It was ahead of it's time being multi-core. But seeing what Yu Suzuki was doing with it with the Saturn build of Shenmue is incredible.
Saturn 2D games can look great, but the Saturn's 3D work can be pretty patchy, TBQH. I don't think SEGA really knew if 3D polygonal games would be the future of gaming, and they really built the system for 2D (And the system actually has a lot of beautiful 2D games, http://youtu.be/pr8NEv4SIP8 ), then added 3D on later. In terms of just raw specs, the Saturn on paper should be capable of about the same 3D performance, and SEGA Saturn fans might even tell you more,(Although Saturn fans have a knack for defending the system to death, so yeah (I'm a hypocrite, I know)), than the PlayStation, but it's the way the system worked that gave the system mediocre 3D capabilities. The dual-processor setup was apparently just a nightmare to develop for (Only one processor could access the memory at a time), and the system's other internals tended just not to make sense (Nothing was really designed to work together). Even worse were the Saturn development kits. The PS1 development kits would simply allow developer to "Turn on" light sourcing or transparency among other effects. Saturn developers would be forced to code everything themselves. Also worth noting, the Saturn used quadrilateral polygons instead of the standard triangles. That being said, very, very few developers were ever willing to put this much effort (And many were just incapable of it) into making good looking games for a niche system (Outside of Japan), so it definitely has the worst 3D performance on average. But really, even at it's maximum, it probably wasn't the most capable system of the day, but since it was abandoned pretty early on, who knows?.
A couple examples of good 3D on the system would be Stellar Assault SS- http://youtu.be/D_7advUakJI - Tons and tons of effects (At times the game even calls on the sound chip to pull them off) and high poly count.
Also, Sonic R (Probably the best 3D visuals on the system) - http://youtu.be/25QNBWdn4EU - A little foggy, but just a great looking game in general.
Though I would like to note the Saturn has pretty awesome audio (Which was kind of a first for SEGA ), with the CD format and quality dedicated sound internals.
The Saturn also did have a memory expansion option, but as course of par for late-90's SEGA (If you think they localize badly now, you should have seen SoA in the day!), it was never released in America.
As for the most capable system of the day (Just in general, not just visuals) was, IMO, certainly the PlayStation, with it's easy developing, great 3D performance, surprisingly good 2D performance, great audio, and CD format among a good amount of other factors. The Nintendo 64 surely could have been, by far, but bad decisions (Primarily the cartridges) pretty much took care of that.
@8BitSamurai That's why I pointed to the Shenmue build for Saturn. It really shows what the system could do if someone had the know how. But yea the Saturn was possibly the best system built for 2D. Just look at all of Capcom's great work on it.
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That's why I pointed to the Shenmue build for Saturn. It really shows what the system could do if someone had the know how. But yea the Saturn was possibly the best system built for 2D. Just look at all of Capcom's great work on it.
Yeah, you're right actually, Shenmue looked absolutely incredible for being on a 5th generation system! And to think it wasn't even a finished game! And yeah, Capcom's (And others') 2D games on the system look absolutely fantastic on the Saturn. Even with all of the difficulties programming for it, it was still probably more capable than the Nintendo 64 (Due to cartridges).
I just cannot understand the love for the N64 (Beyond nostalgia). Every time I play another one of it's super-hyped games, it ends up being just decent or downright unbearable! And that's the hyped 1st/3rd party games, the few 3rd party games that ever came to the system besides ports (Which usually had cut content and bad audio), had a knack for being downright atrocious. The analog sticks were pretty innovative, but they were just cheap and it feels like I'm grinding on the controller when I'm using them. Mario 64 pioneered a new genre of platformers, but it has serious control and camera problems, and I know I'm going to get slack for this, but I just, for the most part, hate the games that came later in the Mario 64 style! There's too much non-linearity and collect-a-thon'ing and not enough of what made platformers fun, platforming and action.
And just for the record, I have no nostalgia for any of the 5th generation systems. I had a Nintendo 64 briefly, and then a GameCube. I've never even seen a Saturn, and I've played the PlayStation (The real deal, not backwards compatibility) one time, I've only fallen in love with the games for it only recently..
It felt like such a downgrade after owning the SNES.
Completely agree. The games just had so much more life and personality (And just played a lot better!) on the SNES, IMO. Mario RPG felt a lot more polished and complete than Paper Mario, Yoshi's Story was a shell of Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong 64 was another collect-a-thon, Mario 64 didn't have the tight platforming and great controls or Super Mario World, Kirby 64 didn't even come near close to being the greatness of Super Star, or even Dreamland 3, OoT just wasn't didn't play as smooth and didn't have the charm of A Link to the Past, etc. I know it's opinion, but still, I think they just had so much more charm on the SNES, and then on the GameCube.
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Wow a long bullet point list of reasons why you don't like a system? That's a pretty compulsive interest, in that loathsome hardware.
For me it never comes down to the system specifications, and if Nintendo has proven anything it's that first-party games on their systems are fun. Period.
The N64 came out at just the right portion of my childhood to be captivating; its visual style, perhaps ragged to some eyes, made a lasting impression. [no I'm not referring to blindness, hehe ]
While I don't have an N64 of my own, 1080 Snowboarding is one of my favorite games on the Virtual Console.
99% of old games that have been praised as best game(s) of all time are over rated. Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past bored me to the point I just stopped playing. It's best to just accept now that whenever someone says an older game is one of the best games of all time they're assuming you have nostalgia for the game. If you don't, it's no where near as good as they say it is.
My SD Card with the game on it is just as physical as your cartridge with the game on it.
I love Nintendo, that's why I criticize them so harshly.
But you're wrong about one thing.......FMV's did exist on the N64, I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure I remember Resident Evil 2's opening FMV looking distorted & fuzzy on the N64 Vs the PS1 version. Plus, the in-game graphics had blurrier textures(Big surprise there), but perhaps my soggy memories are frazzled & fogged, better bust out the Wave windshield wipers!
Yeah, there were 4 games that had some FMV on the Nintendo 64, but it was pretty minimal. Resi 2 was one of them, but they were super duper fuzzy and low-quality compared to the PS1 version. Also, that version had really compressed audio and bad fire effects and things like that. ( http://www.lensoftruth.com/retro-head2head-resident-evil-2/ )
The NES was junk from start to finish. (What is worse Nintendo's practices stopped the West getting the decent TG16 versions). The Master System is more tolerable and I don't really like that either. (SNES / TG16 / Megadrive are fine - don't like the filters they use on some of them on the virtual console though).
I hated the sprite flicker then and I hate it even more now. Nintendo of America sucked all the life out of many of the best games as well. (i.e Castlevania III).
It cannot be nostalgia for me because at the time I hated Super Castlevania IV and didn't get into the series due to that until I played Rondo of Blood pretty recently.
The N64 could have done 2D better than the Playstation if somebody chose to. Could have made a CD addon for the expansion slot and had the main game on cartridge and some of the assets on CD. 8 Meg Ram. The DSP nobody used much other than Rare. The 64DD could have provided enough.
(What I don't like is sprite flicker / slowdown / jagged 3D / Gamecube dpad).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
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@unrandomscam
Stopped reading the moment you said "the NES was junk from start to finish"
Based on what i've seen of your comments, you don't seem to like anything.
oooh! he told you!
the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)
I remember the first time I saw this game on display at a Toys R Us. It blew the 11 year old me away. I played it and it was a complete game changer as far as gaming goes. I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite games ever, BUT, it's definitely not over-rated. It deserves all the praise it gets. It was one of the most fun and memorable games of it's time, that's for sure.
Now.. a game that is over-rated is Ocarina of Time. Especially when compared to Majora's Mask.
I don't think Super Mario 64 is overrated at at, especially since upon it's release there was nothing quite like it and it lit a path for what 3D games could (and would) become in the future. The game featured amazing graphics, smooth control, and amazing music that created an atmosphere that no other game could touch up until that point, it was truly a trend setter and a title that will always live on as the game that truly led the "next generation" into gaming. I'm serious, its that damn important. Was the game perfect? Of course not, no game really is. But what this game did for the landscape of video games was important and if people don't recognize that than there really is no help for them.
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