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Topic: Fire Emblem Series Discussion

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Socar

DarthNocturnal wrote:

I'll reset even if a unit I had no intention of using the unit. And I'd never think of proceeding without a trained unit unless I was trying to give myself a no reset challenge.

Also, when playing an FE game without the freedom of grinding, you don't want to spread that XP out too much. I go for roughly one character for most classes (a few exceptions are OK, like Cavaliers and their kin). No reason to train every Mage you stumble across (unless the game has more then one magic type. Then getting two or more casters can be ideal.)

And stay away from pre-promoted units unless they have good average stats. Generally speaking, training up from the starting class is better.

Ok so here's the thing, just how does reclassing work in older games? Like if you max your pre promoted unit lv and then max the promoted unit to 20, then how would reclassing work in that sense?

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Grumblevolcano

@Socar: Reclassing doesn't exist in all the pre-Awakening games in the west except Shadow Dragon (DS).

Grumblevolcano

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DarthNocturnal

@Socar

What @Grumblevolcano said. Reclassing wasn't much of a thing until Shadow Dragon (although I think Gaiden may have allowed it, but only for a select few). Although, it was more of a "gap filler", in the event you needed more of a certain class. Not as open or diverse as Awakening's class system.

Most Western-released titles just use levels 1-20, with one promotion with no alt choices. Exceptions are Sacred Stones (two choices at promotion), and Radiant Dawn (most characters have TWO promotions, allowing for a max effective "level" of 60... although, most characters you get start at the 2nd tier... it bends the rules a bit =P)

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

Well that changes everything. I guess I was right earlier in which Fire Emblem seems to be the only one doing Tactical RPG right.

Despite this, I don't get why battle saves can't be present in classic mode. Some maps are huge and take hours to beat. I mean, that's what Holy war did so why can't handheld games just have battle saves if the maps are too big?.

You can have short maps and make them tactical so why make some big especially when it comes to handheld games alone? I can understand that for the console games but having long maps in handhelds without the classic mode having battle saves? Sheesh.

I'm fine with long maps but if battle saves can't be in classic, either make it so that players don't have to spend like 3 hours for that kind of map or bring back Aum staves...or that they do something like when this certain lord is being played, the units that die under that lord can be recruited by another lord when it comes to long battles.

Edited on by Socar

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DarthNocturnal

@Socar

The games tend to go back and forth a bit, but Classic usually just gives you suspend saves (which can only be reloaded from once).

Radiant Dawn allowed for normal saving mid-battle on all but the hardest of difficulties. I felt it was handy... but there were a few cases where you might actually screw yourself over by saving at the wrong time (and you might not know it at the time). And Shadow Dragon has one-time use "save points", which allowed for normal saving (with limitations.)

From what I remember, Genealogy had huuuuuge maps (and only about 12 of them). Several maps worth of story unfolded in just one map. Normal saving was probably seen as more of a requirement to avoid frustration..... well, more frustration then was the standard.

But, the default for most Fire Emblems is only allowing temporary saves mid-battle. Hence why it's part of the Classic ruleset. They really want you to think your actions through.

Heck, the Advanced games save after any move. That Bandit that just killed your healer? He's always going to make that move, and no amount of game reseting will fix that. Chapter restart is your only option. And these were before Casual Mode existed.

I understand that restarting after a lot of work has been done is not for everyone, but that's just how Classic goes.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

@DarthNocturnal: Yeah, I get the whole point of classic mode which is why I'm like suggesting that smart move that they did for the GBA one where this lord's units won't die and can be used again for some maps that are big just to encourage those casual gamers to try out classic mode.

I really do value the point of classic mode seeing as how its the traditional way to experience fire emblem. Unfortunately, its not that I can't do it because seeing as how I now have a job and just got only few hours of free time, I just simply can't find the time and this is really in the case for Holy war which is really helpful having battle saves.

Now even though I hate everything in Final Fantasy Tactics, at the very least, It is possible to reset the whole thing for two reasons.

1. The maps are small
2. They give some time before a unit fully dies.

Fire Emblem doesn't need that second option. They can just easily make smaller maps like Tactics, further adding more chapters.

I'm saying this because I want to experience classic mode so that time barrier isn't the big problem for me and that it can be less brutal. I really love the tactical stuff that the franchise gives and I want to experience that without spending 4 hrs on just 1 or 2 chapters because well..like I said earlier. FE seems to be the only one getting this genre right.

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Socar

Guys, let's not make this thread dead cause there is still a lot to talk about this franchise.

Like how things could have been if we haven't gotten another fire emblem game had Awakening failed?

To me, that sounds like the end of TRPG games. Why? Because FE is the definitive and seems to be the only series that gets TRPG done right.

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yokokazuo

@Socar I'm certain there are other good TRPG's (I thought it was called strategy, but I'm not certain). And I do know that there are fans of FF Tactics, I remember seeing someone mention it in the Mystery of the Emblem review and they were a fan, but didn't like FE.
Aside from Fire Emblem, I think the only other SRPG I've played is Pokemon Conquest which I did enjoy. Since I'm not familiar with other games of the genre though I can't exactly judge it myself though.

Speaking of the map size. Aside from Genealogy of the Holy War, I don't think there were too many large maps in the series. Most of the time they would take around 10-20 turns or so at most so it wouldn't be too time consuming to restart it. (Although the chapters where I've failed in the late turns can be a bit frustrating to start over)
But they do also give you ways to get through them faster. In some games you can change the movement speed to make it faster and you can also edit the animations so it won't even go into the battle animation which saves quite a bit of time. And in the DS games as well as 3DS, you can skip battles as well as turns which helps speed them up even more.

My backloggery

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Socar

@yokokazuo: Buddy....let me tell you that of all the TRPG games that I ever got my hands on, I can guarantee you that Fire Emblem does it the best unlike any other game out there.

All the games that I last check don't do the variety bit right at all. They just have Rout the enemy and defeat commander which is admittedly true for Fire Emblem for the most part like Awakening but Fire Emblem when it comes to it, gives variety and does it well.

There are objectives in FF Tactics that tell you to protect someone and to do that, you have to defeat every single unit that can get their hands on that someone you're suppose to protect. What happens here is that you are doing the same thing only with one more obstacle in mind which becomes bland. I can say more horrible things about the game but doing so would only spoil the whole point of this thread so I'll leave it at that.

In Fire Emblem, it doesn't work like that at all. There's an objective of the same but this time, doing it within a certain turn limit. Its fantastic in many ways. Firstly, you can't grind because the enemies here are tough and when you can grind, you can only do so little after which, you can't level that unit at all.

You then have additional gimmicks that while they don't kill units, can still do decent damage to them. And lastly, the map is designed in such a way that you can't even think of defeating the main boss because the enemies can easily kill you. So the map is fully designed in such that you have to defend within a certain time.

There's one objective where you have to escape all your units. The enemy units will keep growing both from front and back making it endless. This will not be easy grinding because the units will stop levelling up at some point if you keep killing enemies. So unless its something like getting chests or other goodies, you're better off just running away from them.

The closet variety that you can get besides Fire Emblem is Valkyria Chronicles but its not as perfect as FE. Infact majority of them are just boring and not very fun to play.

Again, I have no issues with the length of the map. Just add another difficulty mode like super easy mode so that I don't suffer too many consequences and I'm happy. Of course, maybe this is something Nintendo will do for the next game.

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DarthNocturnal

Socar wrote:

Again, I have no issues with the length of the map. Just add another difficulty mode like super easy mode so that I don't suffer too many consequences and I'm happy. Of course, maybe this is something Nintendo will do for the next game.

Casual and Pheonix Mode do just that.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

@DarthNocturnal: Nah....pheonix is just invincibility.......i'm talking about like reducing the AI difficulty not making me a god or something. So that I don't have to think too much. That way, it will motivate casual players to move to classic mode.

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DarthNocturnal

@Socar

Does Birthright / Conquest not feature an Easy mode? I guess it's not a consistent addition, but FE has had it in the past. In fact, I think some games added it exclusively for the Western release.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

@DarthNocturnal: Well Conquest is pretty much telling you to play the game in Casual Mode unless you can spend about 3-5 hours per chapter. And the Normal mode isn't exactly easy mode.

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xPH03N1Xx86

A bit off topic here, but I love that Percy's voice actor is Anthony Del Rio, aka Pit! And Silas too. I'm super happy Ryoma is voiced by Matthew Mercer, my favorite voice actor.

Meow. :3

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Socar

I just don't understand why the hell NoA won't market the FE Cards? Really....is it THAT expensive to release those cards to the west considering how trading cards also has a market for the west?

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Iggly

@Socar 3-5 hours per chapter seems a bit over exaggerated, each chapter usually only takes 30 minutes to 2 hours even with Classic on. The higher difficulties would maybe add a few extra minutes of thinking, but even that is kind of pushing it.

I'm not lazy! ...I'm just very forgetful. :|

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Socar

@Iggly: Yeah, two hours does seem to work, But in my experience playing conquest, some chapters do take a while to complete.

Also, considering that you can't save at the end game in conquest or even retreat, it makes it all the more forgiving to have casual mode just to have battle saves.

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Iggly

@Socar Personally I always found the Chapter after 27 easier on every route so there's no need to save if your units are already properly leveled. If your units are under-leveled during the final fight, then you'll probably want to manage your units better on your next playthrough.

I'm not lazy! ...I'm just very forgetful. :|

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DarthNocturnal

If units are under-leveled, then you may be using too many. And / or letting the Jagens do too much of the fighting.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

So do any of you guys know which Fire Emblem has the best story ever told to date?

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