Topic: Does anyone else feel like this gaming generation isn't as good?

i don't know why everyone is focusing on the virtual console part of my argument so much. my main reason the wii is so great was because it has has an amazing selection of new games, in my opinion the best lineup i've seen. not only that, but it introduced those games with new control methods that have expanded how gaming is going to work forever, and for good reason; well implemented motion controls are extremely fun to use and enable entirely new types of games. the virtual console is just the icing on the cake, but that ability still does count for something.

as for the looks of the vc itself...

the wii renders n64 games at twice their original resolution. if you can't see the difference, you've got bad eyes; even on a SDTV i could tell majora's mask looked better right away, and on a 480p tv the improvement is absolutely amazing. it looked so good that i had to hook up my old n64 to compare and there was no mistaking the two... i seriously doubt you've tried it.

and like waveboy said, the component and 480p do their part to noticeably improve the looks of every other console on the service too, even if they aren't improved as much as 3D rendered games are.

when it comes to the last gen ports, i think resident evil 4, the metroid trilogy, and okami are the best examples of what the wii can add to a game. those games were already regarded as near-perfect classics and the wiimote still made them significantly better. giving us definitive versions of the last generation's best games is another small but welcome feature to give the wii credit for, but again, the VC and ports are supplemental reasons for why the wii is great, not the main drive of my argument.

yes, the conduit sucked, but i've played modern warfare 2 and the like on the new systems and to be honest i couldn't be any more bored with current gen shooters. they're very impressive, but not fun; to me, local multiplayer is what's fun and playing splitscreen with 4 wiimotes would be undeniably awesome. that's why i added conduit 2, although the new goldeneye is likely to be better, so maybe i should have chosen that instead.
either way, i'm a lot more interested in playing either of those admittedly humble games than a single more generic FPS on an HD system.

the argument about it being fired like a real gun has come up before, and while it obviously doesn't literally feel like a gun, it's a hell of lot closer than fumbling with two rubber sticks or moving a mouse across a desk. it imitates real shooting in that your whole arm is used to point something at a target and gives you a very intuitive method of aiming that vaguely resembles real shooting (and i have the shooting experience to know).

it's all the more intuitive when you consider just how disconnected aiming on a controller or computer is from the real thing in comparison; cranking two wheels to align a gun to a target is actually much closer to the way a cannon works. it's comfortable for a lot of people, but i don't see why you'd want to use a needlessly complicated, completely unrelated process to aim when you could just do it the way your character on screen does.

as for the quality of IR controls, i defy anyone to play sin and punishment 2 using a controller without running right back to the wiimote within minutes; when the screen is filled with enemies, there's no contest. the most important asset of the wiimote isn't the speed or accuracy, but the fun; it's just simply fun to use. i admit nintendo got the button placement wrong, but that's overshadowed by the mammoth improvements to the core of any shooter, the shooting.

i don't know what turns people off to remote aiming, but from reading first impressions it looks like sony move is making a lot of HD fans reverse their negative opinions about the wiimote aiming controls, which just goes to show you that wiimote bashing is often more motivated by system loyalty than the controller itself. i admit there are some issues, like stability in your aim when having to shake the controllers around or when you make any movements, but i think they're minor.

phew, this is a hellish bunch of long posts...

adam, i guess i have to ask the question of what games you do like, since if you're obviously enough of a nintendo fan to come on the forums you must like something out there. you've dumped on pretty much every wii game as well as every nintendo franchise ever made at this point, so if you dislike practically everything nintendo offers so much, what brings you here?

My problem with motion controls is that not only are they often done poorly, but even when done right, it rarely seems like it even adds to anything. I can only think of a handful of really good Wii games where it really felt like it couldn't be done and wouldn't be nearly as good without the motion controls. At most, its often just a nice gimmick that I would've missed had they taken it away, but had it never been there I would've liked the game just as much. Really, motion controls just seem like an utterly pointless addition to gaming in my eyes. As you pointed out, its taken years for developers to make games play half as good as they did with the old pads, and even a lot of the good Wii games could've been just as good, if not better without Motion controls. Is this what people really call "innovation"? Seems more like everyone took one huge step back and now they're racing just to get back to where they were. Honestly, I just hope that by the next generation they finally wise up and move on from this little "advancement". Otherwise I may just retire from gaming all together.

@VC Discussion

I'd just like to say that while I love the VC and all, and its the main reason I still play my Wii more than my Xbox 360, it's still far from perfect. There are some many great games that simply can't come to Virtual Console that you're honestly better off getting/keep the original consoles, since otherwise you'll miss out on the best they have to offer.

1. Said select few. N64 games are a select few. And again, people are making it out as if Nintendo actually touched up the visuals instead of just allowing them to run on modern TV cables.

2. I'm guessing you guys buy the Wii gun shells too? Hey those are cute. Again, I choose control methods based on quickness and accuracy.

If the remote is improved next gen, maybe I'll reconsider. If it stays as is though, I'll always prefer other control methods. Same reason I won't be purchasing the PS3 Move.

My view on motion controls is much of the same. Rarely does it ever add to anything, Shaking the Wii remote isn't much more 'fun' than just pressing a button. The only games that really benefit are Tiger Woods and sword games.

3. Do I look like Adam? Oh well, my favorite games are Power Pros. and Tales of Symphonia. Nintendo-wise, Animal Crossing is nice and Galaxy/Mario Kart/Brawl are good for the most part.

And then Wii Fit Plus is one of the greatest games they've ever created, so I like that too.

This thread should be renamed to is the wii the greatest console this gen since thats what everyone is on about now. Anyway, regarding that topic i disagree. I think until one owns multiple consoles outside of nintendo one will think the wii is the almighty gaming machine. I was like this at one point, but then i got my ps3 and realized outside of nintendo adding some motion controls to games, they really didnt advance that far compared to other consoles and the massive/easily appreciated changes theyve made.

What sony has done with graphics, and by making the console a complete blu-ray/movie/game/music/DVR/everything media hub shows how far they advanced to be considered current gen and with the motion controls arriving soon, they are showing they can match nintendo's tech too, however little i do care for that.

I cannot speak for Xbox360 since i dont have one, but i must say, i think the ps3 is a step over (a few steps actually) the Wii at this point in time. If you believe motion controls are the savior, well sony will have those soon as well, so that argument doesnt stand. VC = Ps1 classics, Wiiware = PSN games, sony has equivalents to what the wii has and much more, with much more improved graphics and tech. I do like my wii, but i gotta admit, theres better stuff out there this gen beyond the gimmicks.

well, they did; not through the games themselves, but the emulator. as i said, it renders the games at 480p instead of 240p, making all of the models look a lot less blocky and making it much cleaner in general. it's a fundamental change in the way the wii renders the game that brings those better visuals, not better cables alone.

even if it were just better cables, it'd still be enough of a difference for me to choose the VC over the original systems; if it looks better and i can use essentially the same controller, why not?

hey, i don't take it that seriously.

i see no way that dual analog can represent speed or accuracy. you always know where it is you want to shoot, but you have to wait for the cursor to catch up while you hold the stick in that direction; higher sensitivity levels let you reach the target faster, but make it harder to do precise aiming. i can never stop thinking about how clumsy the whole process is when using analog sticks.

i'll say it again, in a game like sin and punishment 2 where you have hundreds of enemies on screen at once the dual-analog process of sliding the cursor over each enemy one at a time is far too slow to keep up with the action. i know because i tried the controller for the hell of it and didn't even finish one level before switching back; even on the fastest setting i could only hit a fraction of the enemies i could with the remote.

don't take my word for it; the wiimote made such a dramatic difference in your ability to shoot that the developers of the game had to go back and redesign everything after testing it with the remote, since they had designed it using the gamecube controller and segments that had been challenging using analog sticks wound up being such a friggin breeze with the wii remote that there was no difficulty clearing them at all. it goes to show how much of a difference the wiimote controls can make that a game has to be built differently in order to accommodate it's aiming speed.

D'oh! they do start with the same letter...

i admit that most games feature poor motion, but who do you fault for that? most developers tried to implement motion regardless of whether it belonged or not, which led to pointless waggling.

nintendo themselves understood the time and place for motion and made more subtle use of it, like shaking to spin and the ball rolling segments in mario galaxy, or steering in mariokart. these welcome changes in 1st party games might be small, but if most people actually like them and as you yourself say they add something to the game, are they really that pointless?

i could argue by the same logic that HD output and cutting edge graphics are pointless features because you could take them away and still play the game without losing much... so at what point does an enhancement become meaningful? i think anything that makes you enjoy the game more is worth having in there.

and if we're talking about motion i think the IR controls have to be lumped in there, so are you willing to say they've been pointless too? the wii controls in corruption made the vast majority of people crap their pants, and they've only gotten better since then. i can understand if you prefer different controls, but no one besides the most die hard dual analog fans would say IR controls are a meaningless advancement.

you admit that games like red steel 2 and sports resort are a few examples of things that wouldn't even be close to possible with a normal controller. does the small number of these games available cancel out all the innovation in their controls? it doesn't matter if only a few developers have taken interest in designing innovative motion games while the rest take the easy road making shovelware or cookie cutter shooters on the other systems... you can't exactly fault the controls themselves for that, can you?

the controller can become absolutely anything with the motion + and that potential has barely been scratched yet. it's been a painfully slow crawl to make progress in that direction, but just because it's taking a while to build up good games doesn't mean we may as well forget about it. skyward sword for one is sure to feature the best motion controls yet, and having experiences like that makes it seem very worthwhile to me, even if it is only once in a while.

Hey Mickeymac said utterly pointless, not me. lol

How am I suppose to haz the uniqueness when I'm always confused with someone else?

i caught that and have no idea why your name was quoted instead of his; i fixed it anyway.

The biggest mistake some people make is believing someone else is missing out because they prefer something else.

But then Nintendo fans aren't exactly known for being able to see things from other perspectives..

The rude comments though are moving you further away from holding an actual conversation and more towards the generic Wii fanboy 'teh motion control rulez' rant.

Edit: Waveboy, is the Wii the only console you own this gen?

@WaveBoy: chill out. it's not like he's never tried them and is dismissing them, it's just his opinion. everyone's got one, and if you want your own to be respected, you're going to have to respect theirs too.

@Waveboy: I own a Wii and a PS3 and I honestly don't think motion controls are all that necessary for a good gaming experience

It's Chris Bores syndrome (Super Mario Bros. 2 is the perfect predecessor to Super Mario Bros.)

Yes, because none of that actually adds to the game. It could've never had those, and those games would've been just as good. The ones that add to the game are ones like Boom Blox, where what they do simply can't be done without Motion controls, and make for a truly fun and unique experience like little else on the market. You don't need to steer a platic wheel to make Mario Kart Wii fun, and you shouldn't need to shake the controller to make Mario spin.

I also felt that HD graphics aren't necessary. The graphics of last gen were good enough. Now its just overkill, IMO. In fact, it's been negatively affecting all areas of the media for a while and it seems it'll only get worse. I'd go on, but this is not the thread for such discussion.

Metroid Prime 3 Corruption may be my favorite game, but to this day I still feel it could've been just as good with the controls from Metroid Prime 1 on the Gamecube. Whats the point of having pointer controls if you lock onto everything anyways?

I enjoyed Red Steel 2 more for the fact that it fulfilled my childhood fantasy of being a cowboy samurai - firing my 6-shooter at enemies while cutting them up with my samurai sword - in a retro-future setting than anything else. The swordplay was fun, I'll admit, but it wears on your arm after a while. It was fun to try once and only once. A fun gimmick? I'd say so. Would I want to play another game like it? Maybe, especially if its a sequel to Maken X. An advancement in gaming? Ehhhh...no, not really. Not in my opinion, anyways. Its not like First-person slashers haven't been done well before. I'd say some of the old ones, like Maken X, even outdo Red Steel 2 in a lot of ways, and without motion controls.

I'll believe it when I see it. The future is unknown and there's still time for things to change. I'm just saying that right now, Motion controls have proven to be nothing more than a mere gimmick, not a true advancement. There's still much to prove, and so far its given me no reason to be optimistic.

Bah, in all this bickering, I forgot to reply to this:

That's...interesting. I don't think I would've come to the same conclusions you did, but hey, different people see things differently. Thank you for finally elaborating on that, and helping us all to understand.

Can't you be critical of Nintendo because it's a Nintendo board or what?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had to be a Nintendo devotee to be here. I guess they must've changed the rules during the change from VC-Reviews to Nintendo Life, hold on. Checks the community rules Nope, the rules are still mostly the same. There's nothing written there that says you have to absolutely love Nintendo to be a member here, nor is there anything saying that you have to love the Wii to love Nintendo, or love Motion controls to love the Wii or Wii games. I'm here because I'm a lover of good games, including the myriad of good games on Nintendo consoles, and because I love discussing with people, particularly the people here, about various things, particularly games.

Still, if all are discussions are gonna devolve into mindless bickering, I suggest we just drop the subject and move on. The last thing I want is for this thread to get locked, and since I started this, I'll end it. Reading over my first post from a couple days ago, I realize it came off as more than a little smug. I meant it as nothing more than a joke, and obviously you're not laughing. I'll try much harder to be more considerate from here on out. Really, I do apologize. Now, how's about we just agree to disagree and move on, eh?

Also, I'd just like to clarify that I don't have anything against the Wii, I'm just disappointed in it. I'm disappointed that it didn't turn out to be this huge revolution in gaming like all the PR bullcrap lead me to believe, and I'm disappointed in myself for believing that it would be the next big thing in gaming since the PS2 and Super Nintendo, based on nothing more than pure speculation. I should've known better. I really should've.

GT1 and GT2 were excellent, very ahead of their time. However, Forza quickly killed my interest in the GT series. I even have all the DLC for Forza 2 and Forza 3.

Gaming is almost a right these days, not a priviledge. Consoles and games used to cost a lot more twenty, twenty five years ago. I remember getting Donkey Kong Country for 70 bucks when it came out, which would be like paying 100 bucks for a game today. A lot of hype gets lost in games today with the internet revealing large amounts of game footage before the release and a month goes by and there are hundreds of Youtube videos of gameplay. It was exciting to read in Nintendo Power a short article with a few screenshots and that was it, the rest was up to you to discover.

I guess my point is that gaming isn't necessarily worse today, it's just drastically different. It's not just nerdy boys who play anymore.

That's why you gotta self limit. I just keep most of my info for a game down to a minimum. Yeah, I'll watch a video to see how it'll play, or I'll skim a review to make sure its not broken, but for the most part, my experiences are just like the days, except with way less bad surprises.

that's only if you turn off free aiming, which few people do. normally the lock just fixes the camera (not the cursor) on an enemy so you can aim easier.

I never touched an of the settings. Yet all I had to do was hold the Z button and keep the pointer straight. I never missed.