I don't understand why this i such an issue with people. The lack of diversity amongst characters in Japanese developed games can pretty much be chocked up to there being almost no ethnic diversity in Japan, at least on the same level as America. This isn't a Nintendo issue, most non-american developers tend to suffer from not because of any racist beliefs. I think there is plenty diversity if you look for it, or if you really want that perspective it's stagnant and only caucasian and asian are represented by Nintendo. Not everything has to be a social/political commentary.
Mario, Peach, and Link do not look Asian at all. They look quite Caucasian, as Asian people of course do not have blonde hair or blue eyes, so the lack of diversity in Japan is not a big factor. And while it's true that there's very little ethnic diversity in Japan compared to America, Nintendo is a global company that reaches to many countries and ethnicities. It wouldn't kill them to have a more inclusive cast of characters.
Well of course not, mario is an Italian name, so why would he look Asian? Link is also apart of a fictional elf-like race called Hylians, so why would he need to look Asian? They created his race, they can make him look however they want. It wouldn't kill them no, but does it kill you to not have diverse races of characters within their games? It doesn't affect immersion for me at all. Regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or species when I play a game I just accept the character the game developers have given me. Besides there are plenty of Nintendo developed and published games that allow character customization, and I don't think it is necessary at all to create new characters to fill an ethnic gap. I'd much rather them focus on the gap in genres and gameplay, instead of catering to people who can't stop themselves from nitpicking about something as trivial as this.
Your point was that the reason there are no black characters is because there's little ethnic diversity in Japan. If this was really the case, then Nintendo's characters would all look Asian due to that being the largest ethnic population in Japan. Therefore if they can make their characters look so Caucasian, certainly they can make them other races too. Though I'll take back my reference to Link since his race is made-up, as are the Gerudo who are dark-skinned, but you can apply what I said to any other of Nintendo's franchises that involve humans.
And saying, "No, it wouldn't kill them, but it wouldn't kill them not to either." is completely missing the point. To you, this type of thing may not matter and may seem trivial. But to many people it does matter, and if they belong to a certain minority group (whatever it may be) it can be very good to see their group being represented in a positive light in the video game industry, and to not feel ostracized or ignored by the majority. So if it can't kill Nintendo to make more people happy and feel included, instead of playing it safe and making non-diverse characters, then why shouldn't they do so?
I'm all for customization, but if the developer has a specific vision for the game, and the character has to be a certain race (Shenmue, GTA San Andreas for example), I'm cool with that too. I'm black, but I could care less about the race of the main character. My favorite games like Fire Emblem and Kingdom Hearts don't have many black people, but I'm not bothered and I'll continue to play them.
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As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)
I wouldn't mind some more diversity in games myself (and not only in this aspect), but I find it rather odd when people assume that 1 shade darker than "white" = "Black" = "African American" or the other way around, white/light skin = "Caucasian" (not that anyone here is doing that)
I guess it is to be expected, with so many "ambiguously brown" characters in Japanese games and anime. As some people mentioned, Japan is not exactly diverse when it comes to residents... So they often end up using character traits they consider attractive and exotic, and often end up mixing and matching stuff.
Apparently the only way to make a fair point in a discussion on the internet is to use a meme now. This was essentially the point I was trying to make. Of course my poor grammar got in the way with people understanding that. Props to you man
I don't understand why this i such an issue with people. The lack of diversity amongst characters in Japanese developed games can pretty much be chocked up to there being almost no ethnic diversity in Japan, at least on the same level as America. This isn't a Nintendo issue, most non-american developers tend to suffer from not because of any racist beliefs. I think there is plenty diversity if you look for it, or if you really want that perspective it's stagnant and only caucasian and asian are represented by Nintendo. Not everything has to be a social/political commentary.
Mario, Peach, and Link do not look Asian at all. They look quite Caucasian, as Asian people of course do not have blonde hair or blue eyes, so the lack of diversity in Japan is not a big factor. And while it's true that there's very little ethnic diversity in Japan compared to America, Nintendo is a global company that reaches to many countries and ethnicities. It wouldn't kill them to have a more inclusive cast of characters.
Well of course not, mario is an Italian name, so why would he look Asian? Link is also apart of a fictional elf-like race called Hylians, so why would he need to look Asian? They created his race, they can make him look however they want. It wouldn't kill them no, but does it kill you to not have diverse races of characters within their games? It doesn't affect immersion for me at all. Regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or species when I play a game I just accept the character the game developers have given me. Besides there are plenty of Nintendo developed and published games that allow character customization, and I don't think it is necessary at all to create new characters to fill an ethnic gap. I'd much rather them focus on the gap in genres and gameplay, instead of catering to people who can't stop themselves from nitpicking about something as trivial as this.
Your point was that the reason there are no black characters is because there's little ethnic diversity in Japan. If this was really the case, then Nintendo's characters would all look Asian due to that being the largest ethnic population in Japan. Therefore if they can make their characters look so Caucasian, certainly they can make them other races too. Though I'll take back my reference to Link since his race is made-up, as are the Gerudo who are dark-skinned, but you can apply what I said to any other of Nintendo's franchises that involve humans.
And saying, "No, it wouldn't kill them, but it wouldn't kill them not to either." is completely missing the point. To you, this type of thing may not matter and may seem trivial. But to many people it does matter, and if they belong to a certain minority group (whatever it may be) it can be very good to see their group being represented in a positive light in the video game industry, and to not feel ostracized or ignored by the majority. So if it can't kill Nintendo to make more people happy and feel included, instead of playing it safe and making non-diverse characters, then why shouldn't they do so?
No that wasn't my point, because I never used the word African American or Black in my post, I know that is the title of the forum, but I could very well be talking about any race in the scenario I was describing. You could argue Caucasians are represented at all because it's a fairly common art style within Japan in Manga, Anime, and Video Games for characters to have fairly westernized features, while retaining Japanese social behavior and traditional names, but that's besides the point.
I could be apart of one of those minority groups, you are assuming that just because one doesn't feel unrepresented in video games that they are apart of the majority. I just find it a bit ridiculous to claim a company like Nintendo needs to not "play it safe" with their choice of characters. I don't think a company, who in the past and present has done nothing but made it apparent they want to appeal to gamers of all ages and tastes should have to create new characters JUST to satiate the insecurity of a small group of people who have to make everything a social commentary. I respect your opinion, but I don't think any company like Nintendo should be lambasted, when all they have done is brought entertainment to many a person. Video games are about entertainment, and if you really can't find any game to enjoy because there aren't enough African American, Hispanic, or Alien characters in a game, well then you aren't very good at finding video games to play.
Not everything has to be a social/political commentary.
More than white people = Social Commentary
Stupidest excuse I have ever heard. By that logic, every Tyler Perry movie is actually a deep film about society. It doesn't matter if Japanese developers have no diversity over there. If they are looking to do business with an American audience, they are going to need to keep in mind how important it is. Because if you even hope of getting any kind of business from American Young Adults, you cannot look racist, sexist or homophobic in any way possible.
"The pain goes away, but your work always remains."
Because if you even hope of getting any kind of business from American Young Adults, you cannot look racist, sexist or homophobic in any way possible.
You don't play many online games do you? That behaviour is all over the place and across all ages, genders, countries and ethnicities. Also America isn't the centre of the universe, people need to cater for other countries as well
I just find it a bit ridiculous to claim a company like Nintendo needs to not "play it safe" with their choice of characters. I don't think a company, who in the past and present has done nothing but made it apparent they want to appeal to gamers of all ages and tastes should have to create new characters JUST to satiate the insecurity of a small group of people who have to make everything a social commentary. I respect your opinion, but I don't think any company like Nintendo should be lambasted, when all they have done is brought entertainment to many a person. Video games are about entertainment, and if you really can't find any game to enjoy because there aren't enough African American, Hispanic, or Alien characters in a game, well then you aren't very good at finding video games to play.
Thread win. Just because a gender/ethnicity/whatever is not present does not mean they are being discriminated against. But then the social commentators that MuchoMochi mentions probably expect a 1:1 ratio on all these sort of things. Where o where are the obese, gay, modern day Tasmanian Aboriginal, paraplegic, dwarf men who are single fathers by day and cyborg demons by night? They're under-represented I tell you and it must be rectified. Also would any cyborg parts on the lower part of the body work (an interesting point to debate for sure)?
@HappyHappyist Very mature. I typed this on a mobile, so I can't be sure to check for typos when I'm waiting for the bus home. You could just look at my valid point, instead of being childish and pointing out the grammatical errors of others.
No, I was serious. You said everything that I was about to say. Wasn't trying to point out grammar errors, trying to highlight it because I liked what you said. good job! In retrospect, it does look like I was being a grammar nazi, sorry.
Personally, the way I see it, why should we be trying to shape the artist's vision. If the game developer is wanting to make a game with a 30-year-old, brown-haired male protagonist, why should I say that he can't do that? If someone wants to allow the protagonist a 206-year-old black lesbian woman with red hair, why should I be able to tell him he shouldn't? If the developer wants to make the main protagonist customizable, why should I be able to tell him that I want the character not to be? If the developer wants to make a set defined character, why should I tell him to make them customizable? If I don't support the artists vision, I'll just not buy the game.
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You have the right to disagree with me and the ability to consider anything valid that I say; Please exercise both.
Personally, the way I see it, why should we be trying to shape the artist's vision. If the game developer is wanting to make a game with a 30-year-old, brown-haired male protagonist, why should I say that he can't do that?
I don't feel like everyone's asking them to change their vision. We're just asking them to be more original and actually flex their brains. But at the end of the day...
If I don't support the artists vision, I'll just not buy the game.
...this probably is more the answer than anything else. Besides, looking at the picture simeone posted, I don't like most of those games anyways, and I doubt a different ethnicity would make them any better. <_<
[quote=jedisquidward]You don't play many online games do you? That behaviour is all over the place and across all ages, genders, countries and ethnicities. Also America isn't the centre of the universe, people need to cater for other countries as well
That's not the crowd that plays Nintendo stuff. Besides, people are much more likely to be mad about a lack of diversity other than the presence of it. People in Japan are not going to riot in the streets if a new Nintendo character is black, or gay, or anything like that. This should not be an issue. The fact that people are getting mad about there being something wrong with their oh so precious game and therefore jump into the automatic "Must defend the medium" mode makes gamers as a subculture look not at all good in any progressive light. Look, I love games. I've been gaming my whole life, but I wish that the gaming community would grow the hell up. Do you all think that the fact that people are defending a lack of diversity in games might make us gamers look bad? Back when Tropes vs Women came out, regardless of the actual show itself, the incredibly offensive backlash the creator recieved is not only shameful, but also makes all gamers look like a bunch of babies crying not to get their damn toys taken away. I'm not trying to say that Nintendo is racist. That is a stupid idea, especially about a company who wants to do business in the 21st century. But the fact is that there is a lack of diversity in games that people can't deny. The fact is when a gamer is asked to name an iconic heroine in games that isn't a blatant sex object, and isn't from some niche indie title, Samus, a character made over 25 years ago, is the first in very few that people can think of. When a gamer is asked to name a gay character portrayed in anything other than a stereotypical "HO HO HO THEY'RE SO SILLY" light, people point out Kanji Tatsume from Persona 4, a game from 2008. But wait, I can't say this because I'm trying to make sure every game character be a gay transvestite black woman, right? If I dare point out anything wrong, I'm Jack Thompson's devil baby, right? The fact is, things aren't going to get better unless we as gamers demand for things to get better. And 10 years from now when games are even more insanely popular than any other medium and we still have nothing substantial that caters to anything other than heterosexual white males, we're going to have only ourselves to blame, but we won't. We'll blame the game developers for making everything that way, even though when they do, they get loads and loads of backlash about being a bunch of hippies or femininazis or whatever the term of the week is, and when they don't, we'll come up with a reason why it's still fine to buy the game anyway.
"The pain goes away, but your work always remains."
You don't play many online games do you? That behaviour is all over the place and across all ages, genders, countries and ethnicities. Also America isn't the centre of the universe, people need to cater for other countries as well
That's stereotyping. Playing Nintendo games doesn't automatically exclude people from behaving in such a way, they just have fewer openings to behave in such a way.
Besides, people are much more likely to be mad about a lack of diversity other than the presence of it. People in Japan are not going to riot in the streets if a new Nintendo character is black, or gay, or anything like that. This should not be an issue. The fact that people are getting mad about there being something wrong with their oh so precious game and therefore jump into the automatic "Must defend the medium" mode makes gamers as a subculture look not at all good in any progressive light. Look, I love games. I've been gaming my whole life, but I wish that the gaming community would grow the hell up. Do you all think that the fact that people are defending a lack of diversity in games might make us gamers look bad? Back when Tropes vs Women came out, regardless of the actual show itself, the incredibly offensive backlash the creator recieved is not only shameful, but also makes all gamers look like a bunch of babies crying not to get their damn toys taken away. I'm not trying to say that Nintendo is racist. That is a stupid idea, especially about a company who wants to do business in the 21st century. But the fact is that there is a lack of diversity in games that people can't deny.
And yet I see no people campaigning for those with physical or mental handicaps. They are more under-represented in video games than any other group. It's all about skin tone, gender and sexual orientation. Did you ever consider that perhaps people of darker skin tones, sexual orientation, gender, physical/mental capabilities aren't represented as much because the creators are worried about how their respective communities will receive the character, that they may consider the character a stereotype for something the developers unintentionally depicted? (That is what I believe the reason is for the"lack of diversity"). It's easy to blame the "white heterosexual male," there's a not uncommon belief that they cannot claim racial/sexual orientation/gender discrimination, such calls should be open to everyone, but we shouldn't be so quick to use them.
The fact is when a gamer is asked to name an iconic heroine in games that isn't a blatant sex object, and isn't from some niche indie title, Samus, a character made over 25 years ago, is the first in very few that people can think of. .
To name a handful:
Clementine (Walking Dead).
Zoey/Rochelle (Left 4 Dead/2)
Metra Surik (KotOR 2). The canon character is female.
Chell (portal)
But then sex object is a matter of taste (and if clementine your taste you should be castrated immediately)
But wait, I can't say this because I'm trying to make sure every game character be a gay transvestite black woman, right?
Wrong. I said (in other words) if you want a "fair diversity" then you would have to have such a broad mix of protagonists and villains that no-one could ever feel left out. How about we deliver a check sheet to all the video game companies, and once the use a character with a particular combination of behaviours and characteristics they can't use the same sort of character again until every other combination is used. Might take a few hundred thousand games to do so, but at least everyone is catered for right? Too bad if that gay transvestite black woman is featured in a FPS and you absolutely despise FPSs, you might be lucky and see them in a 2D platformer years later.
The fact is, things aren't going to get better unless we as gamers demand for things to get better.
Headline: "The economy is in the toilet because we don't have enough diversity in videogames." Nothing is going to change by making a black Mario character, or an Asian CoD single player protagonist. People will just find other things to gripe about that have no significance whatsoever.
And 10 years from now when games are even more insanely popular than any other medium and we still have nothing substantial that caters to anything other than heterosexual white males, we're going to have only ourselves to blame.
So when are you starting your games to fix these "issues"? I won't feel any blame, I'm happy playing anybody, from Lee Everett to Samus Aran. I just don't believe devs should be shoehorning something in just to appease an insecure minority, and still risk backlash from that minority (and possibly others) for not doing it quite as they envisioned. They can make the games they want to make and I will play them for fun and not see them as a social issue.
I enjoyed your video and I think most people replying on this thread aren't understanding the point.
Correct me if I'm wrong but your intention was primarily to spotlight and highlight black characters or characters with specifically African heritage and appearances in Nintendo games. Your purpose for creating this topic was not to attack or judge, but to create an awareness and leave it open to personal interpretation and discussion.
I loved the Punch out segment because I love that series and I always liked how the characters were a little over the top and occasionally stereotypical, but in a fun way that never seems mean spirited...and I say that as someone with Eastern European ancestry that isn't always drunk on vodka! lol!
One thing that's great about Nintendo is that they have so many characters that are simply not human or recognizable as such. Yoshi, Kirby, Donkey Kong, and Fox McCloud for example can't be considered to be of any particular ethnicity.
Well, interesting topic and good video. Thanks for posting.
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Topic: Black Nintendo Characters (retrospective)
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