Retro Forum

Topic: 2D or 3D Adventure?

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CowLaunch

21. Posted:

I actually didn't know that Wario World was 3D, but if I see it cheap I might give it a go. I don't think WL4 is as enjoyable as WL or as challenging as WL2 but fairly good nonetheless.

Certainly the trend for platformers having more collectables roughly coincided with the advent of 3D and influenced the direction of games such as SM64 and reached it's zenith in DK64 which many people dislike for that very reason.

As well as the Mario series becoming more linear, I would also like to see a 3D Mushroom Kingdom. I do like the freedom of SM64, but I'd like to see a different direction now. Judging by Galaxy though, the series is moving towards a combination of 2D and 3D & linear and free roaming, and I think a strong argument for this direction can be made.

CowLaunch

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Adam

22. Posted:

About Wario on GC, well, if I am not grabbed by the first few levels of a game, I usually put it aside because there are so many other games to play, so that explains why I came away with that mistaken impression. It's also why I couldn't get into Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy Tactics on GBA (those tutorials just go on forever! I know how to play!).

There are a few GBA games I probably missed out on. But I really do prefer linear platforming. I enjoy Yoshi's Island, but not nearly as much as other Mario games, and I found the DS sequel was, despite some interesting features with the other babies, less fun. I enjoy secrets, but I like the SMB1 approach where they are just hidden along the correct path (or even better, the SMB Deluxe approach where they tossed in red coins and Yoshi eggs to finds -- that was great) or the SM World approach where the secrets are not in every level but occasionally just an alternate, hidden exit that leads to a different path.

Don't get me wrong. I love exploration in Metroid, Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night, An Untitled Story, etc., but they take it to a completely different level. In a game like Yoshi's Island, I never know if I should be running straight to the right or ground pounding everywhere I look because it feels like an awkward compromise between two different styles of games.

@ Cow Launch
I hadn't thought of that before. That is a good theory, but Yoshi's Island predates Mario 64 (though perhaps Miyamoto already had the ideas for the 64 game since it was originally thought up as an SNES game?). Perhaps it is equally due to the influence of both games that platformers have taken a turn in this direction. Or perhaps developers just don't think there is much room for improvement over games like SMB3 and SMW.

Edited on by Adam

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Ricardo91

23. Posted:

warioswoods wrote:

No, the Gamecube Wario game seems awkward at first, and the first couple levels seem a bit uninspired, but it has some very clever maps as you get further along, with a unique kind of charm and plenty of hidden areas to try to reach. It's not of the same caliber as the 2D Wario games, but worth playing nonetheless.

I don't know. I didn't exactly ge that far in the game, but I didn't like it at all. The controls felt a little clunky, it felt too linear, and it wasn't nearly as good as the Wario Land series. Pile-driving enemies into the ground was fun though. :) Maybe I should give it a second chance?

warioswoods wrote:

If you haven't played the GBA game, you're missing out on what is easily the best 2D Wario game to date (and I'm a big fan of the very first game for the GB). Wario Land 4 was incredible, and a far better platforming title than NSMB, with ten times the creativity and level design, and tons of well-hidden treasures to keep you returning to the maps. Plus, the bizarre music and humor from the Wario Ware series plays a big role in the game. If you just prefer point A -> point B platforming, then perhaps you wouldn't enjoy it as much, but personally I see something like NSMB as a step backwards for the genre, whereas the Wario series has continued to rethink the way exploring a level and hunting for secrets can be enjoyed.

I disagree. Wario Land 3 was easily the best of the series (and the only Wario Land game besides Shake It! that I still own at the mo). Wario Land 4 would be the second-best though. It improved on all the concepts of the earlier Wario games, had fun minigames, and provided more challenge thanks to the fact that you could actually take damage. Even then, I grew tired of the game after beating it on all 3 difficulties, and it was a bit on the short side.

Also, I don't see NSMB as a "step backwards" for the series, but rather a build-up of the ideas from the previous games. Though the lack of flying items sucked balls.

I have to agree with Adam about how the Wario Land series has been steadily going downhill lately. Wario Land Shake It! was easily the worst game in the series. It was too easy for the most part (though a few of the hidden levels were absolutely sadistic), only three of Wario's froms were used in the entire game (snow, ice and fire Wario), which were barely used, and the gimmicky motion controls made for some extremely tedious levels (the rocket bucket and the submarine being the worst offenders of the bunch).

On another note, I'd love to see a truly 3D Kirby game come down the pike sometime. It was fun being able to control the little puffball in 3D in Kirby's Air Ride (one of the game's few great qualities). I can't imagine a real Pokemon game in 3D though, what with the emphasis on trading and the it's more handheld-friendly nature, but I hope that the next console Pokemon spinoff isn't a redundant turd like Battle Revolution, and has absolutely NO shadow Pokemon whatsoever. As for Yoshi, SMS kinda had 3D Yoshi levels, but I don't care about seeing the little dino in his own 3D game. That's another series that's really lost it's way over the years.

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Adam

24. Posted:

Yea, Yoshi sure is an adorable mascot, but I never understood the need to set him off on his own. Ever since he and Mario split up, neither of them have been the same. Riding around on Yoshi in Sunshine was the second most fun part of the game after the abstract, FLUDD-less levels, which is sad since Yoshi's inclusion in the town was barely useful (compared to in Mario World). If a New Super Mario World ever comes out for DS or WiiWare (and really, why wouldn't it? NSMB did pretty darn well), it would be a dream come true to see Mario and Yoshi back together again.

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CowLaunch

25. Posted:

Well, Yoshi and Mario were actually together in Yoshi's Island, but I know what you mean.

I didn't like the fact that in Sunshine Yoshi is vomiting juice everywhere. What's that all about? Is he ill? Sunshine would have been better without FLUDD and the violent illness.

With regards to Wario Land, the original is the best for me, but that may be nostalgia clouding my judgement.

I don't really see Kirby as a 3D game character, but I think people said similar things about Mario before SM64, so who knows.

There is a 3D game that I like that has little precedent, and that is Luigi's Mansion (although far too short). Could that have been done in 2D? I don't know. Pikmin? I can really imagine that as a 2D game.

CowLaunch

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theblackdragon

26. Posted:

it would truly be a thing of awesome if New Super Mario World was the direction they took the NSMB series in... or heck, if they remade SMB2 (the doki-doki panic version, not lost levels) and SMB3 as well, with the powerups and enemies and stuff specific to those titles (but in SMB2's case, wrangling it into a more fitting Mario Bros. title than what we were given). That would be so much fun...

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Adam

27. Posted:

New Super Mario Panic would be awesome! :)

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Ricardo91

28. Posted:

__adam wrote:

New Super Mario Panic would be awesome! :)

Indeed! SMB2 is easily the most underappreciated game in Mario history! :)

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CowLaunch

29. Posted:

Ricardo91 wrote:

__adam wrote:

New Super Mario Panic would be awesome! :)

Indeed! SMB2 is easily the most underappreciated game in Mario history! :)

Hmm, do you think they would keep the original 4 characters? I expect Toad would be replaced by Yoshi or something as Nintendo seemed to have abandoned the idea of him being playable in the main series a long time ago. If Mario Tennis is to be believed though, Yoshi meeting Birdo at the end of the level could bring up some unwanted complications...

CowLaunch

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theblackdragon

30. Posted:

CowLaunch wrote:

Hmm, do you think they would keep the original 4 characters? I expect Toad would be replaced by Yoshi or something as Nintendo seemed to have abandoned the idea of him being playable in the main series a long time ago. If Mario Tennis is to be believed though, Yoshi meeting Birdo at the end of the level could bring up some unwanted complications...

i think they would be more likely to add new characters to play with (Yoshi, Wario, maybe... Bowser? he gets pretty ticked when a new enemy shows up to steal the spotlight, lol)... taking the original four away from New Super Mario Panic (Super Mario Panic is a much better name than SMB2, kudos to whoever came up with that first!) would be a shame. though i must say i wouldn't miss Toad at all to be honest. I prefer playing as the Princess. :P

I would very much like to see them getting rid of the slot machine minigame, though, or maybe adding different ones to choose from so that the slot machine game is no longer the best way to get extra lives from (because I suck at the original NES version... the All-Stars version, though, I can rake in the 1ups from that thing! wtf, nintendo).

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Adam

31. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

CowLaunch wrote:

Hmm, do you think they would keep the original 4 characters? I expect Toad would be replaced by Yoshi or something as Nintendo seemed to have abandoned the idea of him being playable in the main series a long time ago. If Mario Tennis is to be believed though, Yoshi meeting Birdo at the end of the level could bring up some unwanted complications...

i think they would be more likely to add new characters to play with (Yoshi, Wario, maybe... Bowser? he gets pretty ticked when a new enemy shows up to steal the spotlight, lol)... taking the original four away from New Super Mario Panic (Super Mario Panic is a much better name than SMB2, kudos to whoever came up with that first!) would be a shame. though i must say i wouldn't miss Toad at all to be honest. I prefer playing as the Princess. :P

While this would be greatly breaking with the idea of the "back to the roots" style this hypothetical "New ___ Mario" series goes for, it'd be really cool if they had the original roster to start off, and new characters to unlock. For instance, beat the game and get Bowser; defeat all the Birdos (meaning don't skip them or levels they're in) to get Yoshi; maybe even meet Wario or some other unexpected character by bringing a subspace potion bottle (whatever they're called) to a secret, hard-to-reach area.

Of course, I don't expect that to happen at all, and I'd be satisfied with the original roster or the original roster with Yoshi added or replacing Toad. Yoshi belongs in the game now that he has such a strong connection with Birdo and Shy Guys. Yoshi and Birdo are never explained to be friends or anything in the sports series, so they could just be rivals or who knows. I don't think it'd be complicated. Perhaps a good compromise would be if just Yoshi were unlockable by beating the game since he would play much different from the rest.

Or -- I can't seem to make up my mind! -- they could take the Mario 64 DS approach and have you start off with Yoshi since with his tongue it'd probably be easiest to play with him and gradually gain the rest as you go through the game.

The possibilities are endless. We should approach Nintendo with this. :D

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