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Topic: Xbox One/Xbox 360 Thread

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Dezzy

@redd214

Given that the next consoles will be backwards compatible, it doesn't seem to make sense to buy an Xbox X at this point. It will have been made superfluous in about a year's time.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Agriculture

Sony retroactively reveal they outsold Microsoft in the seventh generation of consoles:
https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/data.html

The PS3 sold 87,4 million, and the Xbox 360 sold 84 million. The delay of this information is caused by the constant changes in if you disclose sales or not. Microsoft should definitely work closer with Nintendo so they can catch up to Sony. It's not good for consumers or the industry when one manufacturer made 4 out of the 5 most sold home consoles.

Agriculture

gcunit

Anyone looking for a One X should watch ebay. I got a Like New X, with a wireless headset and a physical copy of RDR2 for £200.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

Grumblevolcano

Forza Monthly is next week on May 7th.

Probably the best chance we have of seeing expansion 2 before E3 as there's no Inside Xbox in May. Also Series 9 would begin May 9th.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

NEStalgia

@Agriculture They were misleading with that. They really outsold XBox starting in the final year when they had bundles with new first party games and MS had moved onto the pending disaster of Kinekt focus to chase Nintendo, and they sold PS3s longer after PS4 came out than MS sold X360s.

It also doesn't factor in the sheer popularity of PS3s as cheap BD players. Even I bought an extra PS3 just to use as a BD player. It was awful, it broke it's disc drive in a year. The prior actual BD player lasted years. And it was never used for games.

X1 was a dog until 1S came out, no question ,but Sony's using out of context numbers to re-frame the question. PS3 was a dog for most of it's life, much like X1.

NEStalgia

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Exactly. Some people just LOVE using out of context information, to make their (for this thread especially) completely non-relevant point...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Grumblevolcano

Xbox Game Pass news:
Wolfenstein II
Wargroove
Black Desert
Surviving Mars
Tacoma
For the King
Lego Batman 3
The Surge

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

DarthNocturnal

Anniversary Update is live for SoT. Arena, Hunter's Call and Tall Tales are all active.

If you watch Arena streams on Mixer, and view 30 Arena match conclusions, you'll (probably) get the Obsidian Six Pack.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

@Agriculture They were misleading with that. They really outsold XBox starting in the final year when they had bundles with new first party games and MS had moved onto the pending disaster of Kinekt focus to chase Nintendo, and they sold PS3s longer after PS4 came out than MS sold X360s.

It also doesn't factor in the sheer popularity of PS3s as cheap BD players. Even I bought an extra PS3 just to use as a BD player. It was awful, it broke it's disc drive in a year. The prior actual BD player lasted years. And it was never used for games.

X1 was a dog until 1S came out, no question ,but Sony's using out of context numbers to re-frame the question. PS3 was a dog for most of it's life, much like X1.

Yes, the reason why Sony is in this position is to a very large degree because of Microsofts screw ups. The only reason the PS3 had a more successful end of it's life cycle than the 360 was because it came standard with a hard drive and blu-ray drive, which made it possible for it to hold modern games and their enormous patches.

Even Microsoft themselves have said that the lack of a HDD on all 360s was a major problem for them, because they couldn't make games that required a hdd.

Agriculture

NEStalgia

@Agriculture Certainly. All that said though, PS3 is a bit apples to oranges since it's hardware units sold don't always equate to software buyers, and it had a longer market life than X360. 360 certainly lead the market for much of the generation, and it's a bit snarky of Sony to come out years later and show off how they eclipsed X360's sales in part by simply not discontinuing it as quickly. WiiU could surpass PS4 if it were still made for 50 years and sold for bargain prices on dump tables. PS4...sure, it' curbstomped X1 because MS blew the X1's first several years badly. That's a much fairer fight, though I'd not say Sony won it so much as I'd say MS lost it. But if Sony is smart, they'd be aware of that and not buy the same wrong narrative MS management bought into post-360.

NEStalgia

Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

@Agriculture Certainly. All that said though, PS3 is a bit apples to oranges since it's hardware units sold don't always equate to software buyers, and it had a longer market life than X360. 360 certainly lead the market for much of the generation, and it's a bit snarky of Sony to come out years later and show off how they eclipsed X360's sales in part by simply not discontinuing it as quickly. WiiU could surpass PS4 if it were still made for 50 years and sold for bargain prices on dump tables. PS4...sure, it' curbstomped X1 because MS blew the X1's first several years badly. That's a much fairer fight, though I'd not say Sony won it so much as I'd say MS lost it. But if Sony is smart, they'd be aware of that and not buy the same wrong narrative MS management bought into post-360.

The thing though is that the extended life cycle of Playstation consoles is a great benefit. It's not just some cheap way to get the most sales. For example, I wanted to replay Metal Gear Solid 2, so I fired up my old PS3 and just bought it for a sum equal to 7 euros. The same was true for the PS2, it stayed in production for a long time, but there was genuine reason to buy one long after the PS3 got released since Sony continued to support it, with memory cards, controllers and games still being produced.

It's not just a matter of continuing to sell a console, online services, patches for games and physical media as well as peripherals need to continue to be manufactured. Also, some r&d needs to be done to get an older console cheaper. The PS2 wouldn't have sold so well if Sony hadn't developed the cheaper PS2 Slim. What I'm trying to say is that Sony has been very good at keep supporting their consoles long after it is no longer their primary console. Nintendo has done almost the opposite, in my country they even pulled Wii Us from the store shelves so it wouldn't interfere with Switch sales.

I hope Nintendo and Microsoft sees this, and copy it. It's good for consumers, and also for the game companies since they get revenue from digital sales, with minimum effort if they just keep the online stores open.

Agriculture

NEStalgia

@Agriculture While I'd agree it's a benefit, and I fully expect X1 to do the same in one form or another as well, don't get caught too much in the good optics and spin. Sony sold the PS3 for so long because PS4 had no backward compatibility due to their post-PS2-hubris leading to the almost disastrous Cell design. A problem that still haunts them, though they at least admit it. They sold the PS2 forever since it was such an overwhelming success, and because the PS3 was an XBone level disaster on launch that failed to gain traction until it was on the way out the door, but it caught up because they had to keep selling it because none of the software could be sold for PS4, which was related to the causes that made it almost fail at launch - arrogant design, leading to exorbitant pricing, and developer delays.

That's not to say that lots of us didn't enjoy the long lifespan, but we can't pretend it was done for offering consumer value - it was a way to plug the leaks after some bone-headed decision making. Point being, they've been good at supporting consoles, however they supported them for so long, thus far, in large part do to having boxed themselves into a position it was essential for them to do so, so I wouldn't rely on that always being the case if their plans go smoothly. OTOH, they did discontinue PS3 PS+ games, while MS is still handing out X360 games, so arguably, 360 has the longer full-service life.

As for Nintendo, certainly they do the opposite. They supported Wii and DS for a long, long time, but that's unusual for them. Though they didn't pull WiiU's from shelves. Retailers had already purchased those from Nintendo. If they were pulled from shelves, it's because it was part of the retailer's plans for the space, and their willingness to take losses on inventory they don't believe will sell rather than anything Nintendo was doing.

MS certainly has long term support. OG XBox didn't...it was short lived. But 360, again, still gets free games on Gold while PS+ stopped for PS3 in January. Which is more impressive since it's been much longer since MS sold a 360 than since Sony sold new PS3s. We still don't even know if X1X will have any kind of forward compatibility with Scarlet. MS seems very focused on BC as a core model, and Sony has already confirmed PS4 BC for the likely PS5. So Gen 9 will look very different from Gen 8 in terms of what legacy support looks like. 360 had a long, 9 year run or so, PS3 had an 11 or 12 year run, and 360 is still fully supported. I don't' think MS needs to do much copying.

Nintendo...yeah...they can and should do better on that front. But we know they won't.

NEStalgia

Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

@Agriculture While I'd agree it's a benefit, and I fully expect X1 to do the same in one form or another as well, don't get caught too much in the good optics and spin.

For technical reasons, I expect all new consoles from Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony to be fully backwards compatible (they all use standard processors, so there are no obstacles). I do however suspect that Sony, and possibly Nintendo, will be the only ones who will keep supporting their current consoles by releasing games that are compatible with both Switch/Switch Pro, and PS4/PS5. Microsoft could very well drop the ball on this and make all Xbox One paperweights.

Sony sold the PS3 for so long because PS4 had no backward compatibility due to their post-PS2-hubris leading to the almost disastrous Cell design. A problem that still haunts them, though they at least admit it.

While I agree that the cell was a disaster, the decision to keep supporting the PS3 was probably because the install base was big enough and that it already had a hard drive, which made it suitable for an online store.

[quote]
They sold the PS2 forever since it was such an overwhelming success, and because the PS3 was an XBone level disaster on launch that failed to gain traction until it was on the way out the door, but it caught up because they had to keep selling it because none of the software could be sold for PS4, which was related to the causes that made it almost fail at launch - arrogant design, leading to exorbitant pricing, and developer delays.[quote]

Yes, but regardless of the reason behind it, it has made a PS3 a better investment than an Xbox 360. I owned an Xbox 360 that scratched my discs so I returned it and got a PS3. If I had accepted a new Xbox 360, it would have most likely been broke by now, while my 11 year old PS3 works fine. Even if it wasn't broken, I probably would have had less use for an Xbox 360 today because it wasn't supported than long.

That's not to say that lots of us didn't enjoy the long lifespan, but we can't pretend it was done for offering consumer value - it was a way to plug the leaks after some bone-headed decision making.

True, but it also doesn't void the fact that the PS3 sold more than the 360. It was probably also more profitable for Sony than the 360 was for Microsoft, largely because the online store is still up and selling games.

As for Nintendo, certainly they do the opposite. They supported Wii and DS for a long, long time, but that's unusual for them. Though they didn't pull WiiU's from shelves. Retailers had already purchased those from Nintendo. If they were pulled from shelves, it's because it was part of the retailer's plans for the space, and their willingness to take losses on inventory they don't believe will sell rather than anything Nintendo was doing.

All Wii Us in Sweden was pulled from all big chains the same week. Only a few smaller independent stores had them after that week, and they charged the equivalent of 500 euros for it.

MS certainly has long term support. OG XBox didn't...it was short lived. But 360, again, still gets free games on Gold while PS+ stopped for PS3 in January. Which is more impressive since it's been much longer since MS sold a 360 than since Sony sold new PS3s. We still don't even know if X1X will have any kind of forward compatibility with Scarlet. MS seems very focused on BC as a core model, and Sony has already confirmed PS4 BC for the likely PS5. So Gen 9 will look very different from Gen 8 in terms of what legacy support looks like. 360 had a long, 9 year run or so, PS3 had an 11 or 12 year run, and 360 is still fully supported. I don't' think MS needs to do much copying.

Nintendo...yeah...they can and should do better on that front. But we know they won't.

On top of everything you said, game development times are so long today that it's not really possible to only play new games on a console. I'm sure Red Dead Redemption 2 will be a must buy for the new Xbox and Playstation, possibly even for the next Switch if it is powerful enough.

Agriculture

BlueOcean

In this particular discussion I would say that @NEStalgia is right.

@ReaderRagfish 360 games? Fable has weird controls and menus but it was probably the nicest surprise for me. I have never played a game like that. Assassin's Creed was also a very nice late suprise that I enjoyed far more than hollow Breath of the Wild. Of course, there are Rare games that any Nintendo gamer would love. Nuts & Bolts is a lot of fun once you learn how to build and improve your own vehicle designs. Grabbed by the Ghoulies is arcade fun (but it's better on Xbox One), Viva Piñata is a game with the potential of making you happier...

Rare Replay is enough reason to own any Xbox One model. It's a shame that some original Xbox games will not be available on Xbox One because of digital rights because otherwise the Xbox One is pretty much a definitive console: Xbox, 360, Xbox One and classic games including Sega gems that are not available on the other current-gen consoles.

BlueOcean

NEStalgia

@Agriculture MS is in a weird position with X1X that it was more than just "a more powerful model" but not quite a "new console".....no way X1X becomes a paperweight out of the gates, but X1S could. OTOH, Spencer's comments on generations, "putting games where the gamers are" etc, also highly indicates they see a world that isn't dependent on generational hardware, and that ties in with their PC heritage. It will be interesting to see how they navigate the minefield of this transformation, including XCloud.

Most 360's had HDDs, only the Arcade models did not. Because of that they couldn't require a HDD for games, but most units in the field were, and still are, certainly suited for an online store. It's not like the 360 store isn't still running. But the difference is Sony couldn't sell digital PS3 games to PS4 owners. Microsoft can sell an extensive part of the digital 360 library to X1 owners. That's a key difference there.

As for longevity, I think 7th gen was a disaster. XBox had RRoD and scratch-gate. PS3 had YLoD on the slims, and REALLY fragile disc drives. The Phats were tanks...overheating, loud tanks with no ventilation....but tanks...the slims were a trainwreck.

"True, but it also doesn't void the fact that the PS3 sold more than the 360. It was probably also more profitable for Sony than the 360 was for Microsoft, largely because the online store is still up and selling games."

We don't know the profitability. It outsold, but it outsold it after deep "at cost discounts" not during the high margin period, the Cell cost a ***-ton of money to design and produce while MS just used cheap off the shelf parts. RRoD cost them a fotune, but Sony lost a lot on YLoD too. And MS didn't have a ton of people buying the machine (at a large loss!) as a disc player without buying games, either (The fact that Sony removed most of the media player functionality on PS4 tells us how damaging those features were in sales). It's hard without numbers to figure out who really made a greater profit on that. Not to mention MS has had the mandatory subscription the whole time, raising overall revenues well above Sony's optional PS+ at the time. Also, MS is still running the 360 digital store as well....so no difference there (and most of the popular 360 digital sales are also playable on X1.)

Regarding the national pulling of WiiU's, I wonder if NoE (or an official distributor) was taking a loss, offering to buy back WiiU stock in some countries to encourage stores to buy into Switch? That would be an expensive program, but it's possible if there was retail pushback.

Now that it's all x86, I do think there will be more "porting ahead", though it may also make the early years of new consoles bleaker than even launch year PS4.

NEStalgia

RedderRugfish

I bit the bullet and bought an original Xbox because backwards compatibility on the 360 seemed all over the place. Spent half the day playing Marvel VS Capcom 2, which oddly enough works perfectly on it when it gives a black screen on both my and my friend's 360.

Also, I know everyone knows this, but dang the duke is huge. It's comfy enough for my hands, but it's just comically oversized.

Mario Maker 2: JN2-5GV-VTF
Latest Level: The Mario Repair Shop 361-D5D-1CG

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia I'd say get out while you can. Your points were all valid, and you've been right all along. It is a weird, kinda tunnel-visioned discussion to read either way. For a minute there, I imagined myself in the PlayStation thread, or perish the thought: a Push Square page...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

ThanosReXXX

@ReaderRagfish Yeah, it's one bulky piece of plastic alright...
You could always try one of the later released S controllers. They should probably still be pretty easy to find.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

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