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Topic: Worried About Sony?

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Neoproteus

81. Posted:

You know, since Sony would be a fool to sell at a loss again and people are expecting a $300-$400 price tag, the PS4 is probably not going to be that much more powerful than the PS3... As long as it's backwards compatible with PS1, PS2, and PS3 games,and has some good games of it's own, I'll consider it. If they're going to have an entire generation hinge on Uncharted and God of War again, no thanks. Not bad games, but not $300+ games either. Motion controls and 3D probably wouldn't hurt, especially if they can expand on that function to get each person their own screen with only one TV and no splitting. The Vita is dead though. They should either re-purpose it somehow, or stop production. No one is going to make good games for the Vita...

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Bankai

82. Posted:

Neoproteus wrote:

You know, since Sony would be a fool to sell at a loss again and people are expecting a $300-$400 price tag, the PS4 is probably not going to be that much more powerful than the PS3... As long as it's backwards compatible with PS1, PS2, and PS3 games,and has some good games of it's own, I'll consider it. If they're going to have an entire generation hinge on Uncharted and God of War again, no thanks. Not bad games, but not $300+ games either. Motion controls and 3D probably wouldn't hurt, especially if they can expand on that function to get each person their own screen with only one TV and no splitting. The Vita is dead though. They should either re-purpose it somehow, or stop production. No one is going to make good games for the Vita...

1) Keiji Inafune proves your Vita comment wrong

2) Why would Sony not sell hardware at a loss again?

3) I have over 200 games on my PS3, and none of them are God of War or Uncharted (don't know how that happened, but it did). Well worth $300.

Edited on by Bankai

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rayword45

83. Posted:

There will be worthwhile games on the Vita, but the sales numbers have scared devs away from the platform, at least in terms of big-budget games. It's pretty much the same reason the 3DS isn't as heavily supported as the DS (though to a much lower extent then the Vita's situation considering it's sold 6 times the consoles without the help of Pokemon). Compare the sales to the sales of iOS or even Android. Even when considering piracy the gap is quite large.

And Sony is probably going to sell at a loss, but that would be a huge risk.

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Bankai

84. Posted:

rayword45 wrote:

There will be worthwhile games on the Vita, but the sales numbers have scared devs away from the platform, at least in terms of big-budget games. It's pretty much the same reason the 3DS isn't as heavily supported as the DS (though to a much lower extent then the Vita's situation considering it's sold 6 times the consoles without the help of Pokemon). Compare the sales to the sales of iOS or even Android. Even when considering piracy the gap is quite large.

And Sony is probably going to sell at a loss, but that would be a huge risk.

There are already worthwhile games on the Vita. You're right that it's not going to get AAA-budget games, but it's going to be an indie developer's paradise I reckon.

Selling a console at a loss. The money is more than made up in software licensing and sales.

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rayword45

85. Posted:

Yet I still think indies would prefer an iOS devkit regardless of affordability, because the audience is so much bigger they can make a much bigger profit off of games that cost a fiftieth of the price. The only times I can see it being a go-to for indies is for the unique features like back touchpad, or in the case of vs iOS actual buttons

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moomoo

86. Posted:

For what it's worth, those Vita memory card prices are so high that Sony probably makes money off of them. Also, I'd hold on any final judgements on the Vita until Sony's next system is announced, at least for the west (I'm pretty sure there's no hope for the Vita in Japan, which is really unfortunate). Maybe Sony has something in mind when in cones to integrating the Vita with the PS4. Besides, they can't really just abandon it.; they've put too much into R&D to just let go after a year.

@rayword45 I don't see a huge gap in software between 3DS and DS in terms of the amount of quality games. Yeah, there's less games if one looks at each point in the lifecycles, but much (maybe even most) of the DS library consisted of shovelware, and most of that has moved to phones and tablets, or just isn't around anymore because of phones and tablets. That's not to say it isn't present; its quantity just isn't as large.

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Bankai

87. Posted:

Yet I still think indies would prefer an iOS devkit regardless of affordability, because the audience is so much bigger they can make a much bigger profit off of games that cost a fiftieth of the price. The only times I can see it being a go-to for indies is for the unique features like back touchpad, or in the case of vs iOS actual buttons

There are some that will also see an opportunity from a discoverability point of view. I.E "no one else is supporting it, let's get everyone who owns a Vita downloading our games."

There are some publishers (Ripstone) who are clearly working on this premise.

For what it's worth, those Vita memory card prices are so high that Sony probably makes money off of them. Also, I'd hold on any final judgements on the Vita until Sony's next system is announced, at least for the west (I'm pretty sure there's no hope for the Vita in Japan, which is really unfortunate). Maybe Sony has something in mind when in cones to integrating the Vita with the PS4. Besides, they can't really just abandon it.; they've put too much into R&D to just let go after a year.

There better be hope for the Vita in Japan. That's the only market where a handheld can be genuinely successful. The 3DS exists in its current form for the Japanese market. The PSP was a failure everywhere but Japan, where it was a massive success.

The Vita absolutely must turn around in Japan - that's the market key to its future. That will happen once some games that the Japanese care about are released on it. Atelier Totori and Keiji Inafune's Soul Sacrifice, and Dead or Alive 5, should help.

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moomoo

88. Posted:

@Bankai That was my point. It's pretty unsettling to see the Vita doing as badly as it is in Japan when that is the territory when it should theoretically be doing pretty good. Frankly, I'm saying all it's looking pretty dismal because of how aggresive Nintendo is with the 3DS over there. It's like they have every single major franchise under their belt over there. Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Shin Megami Tensei, heck, with Bravely Default they might as well have Final Fantasy, and that's not even counting the juggernaut series that Nintendo themselves hold with Mario and Pokemon. And then there's Animal Crossing which broke numbers over there. Oh, yeah, and Resident Evil. And Kingdom Hearts.

In terms of properties, the Vita has Persona 4 and Hatsuru Miku (I think that's what it's called, correct me if I"m wrong) and... that's pretty much it. It's quite worrying. And in terms of games coming out in the near future for the system, it isn't looking pretty either. I'm really wondering what the heck Sony is doing with it. I understand the whole making a profit argument, but if they don't get people to buy the system, then 3rd parties won't make games for the thing, and if that happens, people won't buy it, etc. Quite the catch 22.

Edited on by moomoo

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Bankai

89. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

@Bankai That was my point. It's pretty unsettling to see the Vita doing as badly as it is in Japan when that is the territory when it should theoretically be doing pretty good. Frankly, I'm saying all it's looking pretty dismal because of how aggresive Nintendo is with the 3DS over there. It's like they have every single major franchise under their belt over there. Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Shin Megami Tensei, heck, with Bravely Default they might as well have Final Fantasy, and that's not even counting the juggernaut series that Nintendo themselves hold with Mario and Pokemon. And then there's Animal Crossing which broke numbers over there. Oh, yeah, and Resident Evil. And Kingdom Hearts.

In terms of properties, the Vita has Persona 4 and Hatsuru Miku (I think that's what it's called, correct me if I"m wrong) and... that's pretty much it. It's quite worrying. And in terms of games coming out in the near future for the system, it isn't looking pretty either. I'm really wondering what the heck Sony is doing with it. I understand the whole making a profit argument, but if they don't get people to buy the system, then 3rd parties won't make games for the thing, and if that happens, people won't buy it, etc. Quite the catch 22.

Once again - Atelier Totori (don't underestimate just how popular GUST is in Japan), Soul Sacrifice (Monster Hunter, but Keiji Inafune's version), and Dead or Alive 5 (Japanese men like bouncing boobs). There's the Final Fantasy X HD remake too.

There's games, but they're happening on the initiative of third parties largely. Sony itself for some really weird reason is focusing its own development energies on games for the western audience. Completely the wrong path to take, really. They should be hitting up Capcom to make a Dragon's Dogma portable, From Software for a Souls on the Go, and Square Enix to do a little more than just port FFX to the console.

The PSP ended up with reasonable success in the west (well, Europe anyway), because it was a great console for fans of Japanese games. I have NFI what's driving Sony's current policy of guns and gore shooters.

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CanisWolfred

90. Posted:

The Vita has Falcom, which is the last big boy in Town not supporting the 3DS.

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Bankai

91. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

The Vita has Falcom, which is the last big boy in Town not supporting the 3DS.

Tecmo Koei hasn't set GUST on the 3DS yet, and Compile Heart isn't working on Nintendo platforms.

One is working on a Vita game, however, and the other is likely to, because the architecture is similar to the PS3, which it is very familiar with.

Also worth noting that aside from a minigame, Grasshopper Manufacturer hasn't touched the 3DS. It has a full game (Sine Mora) on the Vita, and I'd expect more in the future. Goichi Suda's become a bit of a high-end tech nut.

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moomoo

92. Posted:

@Bankai I'm with you on what Sony should do. Still, those aren't exaclty the best group of games to sell a system. Axelier Totori had some success, but the Japanese sales numbers for the PS3 version aren't super huge (at least not as huge as any of the properties Nintendo's got) (also, thank goodness that Japan gives out sales numbers. It's annoying the other territories don't). Keiji Inafune is cool and all, but a new IP like Soul Sacrifice won't be selling systems unless if it's absolutely phenomenal (which is plausible, considering the man's legacy; I'm just not betting on it). As for DOA5+, DOA4 was a 360 exclusive, and look how that turned out. As for Final Fantasy, of course it will sell well, it's Final Fantasy, but I don't know if it will sell Vita's considering it'll also be on PS3. And that's... four games. 3 of them remakes, two already on the PS3.

Regardless of it all, the failure of the Vita has kind of bewildered me. You'd think devs would flock to a system, especially in Japan, that is relatively easy to develop for and isn't incredibly expensive. I guess it just has to do with Sony not taking the initiative and just hoping support would come.

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WaLzgi

93. Posted:

I lost a bet. I thought the Vita was gonna get buried after the 3DS got Monster Hunter. Maybe this year :P

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V8_Ninja

94. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Also worth noting that aside from a minigame, Grasshopper Manufacturer hasn't touched the 3DS. It has a full game (Sine Mora) on the Vita, and I'd expect more in the future. Goichi Suda's become a bit of a high-end tech nut.

I would like to point out that the System requirements for Sine Mora don't exactly push the graphical capabilities of the PS3 or the Xbox 360. Assuming the architecture of the Vita is exactly the same as that of the PS3, Grasshopper probably ported over the game because it was easy to port and the game actually ran well on the device.

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HandheldGuru97

95. Posted:

As a handheld gamer I tend to lean more so towards Nintendo, but I do enjoy other companies as well and it saddens to see just how terrible the Vita is doing. Quite honestly if the PS4 is successful (I'm not holding my breath for that at this point) I can see them surviving another game console Generation, but there handheld field? It is over after the Vita. At this stage in the game the Vita can not and will not catch up to the 3DS. With Monster Hunter and Pokemon for the 3DS the 3Ds will be the best selling handheld in Japan and probably everywhere else well into 2014. And there are so many many games that I can't even list here because this post would be far to long. I want a Vita, but there are three main problems.


1. Price. I spent $250 on the 3DS at launch and it was quite expensive and after the price drop I am hesitant to spend that much money on a product very simlar to the situation the 3DS was in
2. Memory Cards. Okay another one everyone complains about, but really? I can get a 16GB fo my 3DS for like what $25-35. A bit to much over on the Vita for $60
and most important
3. Games. There are about three games I really want for the Vita and about six I want for the 3DS
So I think the Vita at this stage of the game is screwed. Sony clearly dosen't care and if that dosen't stand a chance meaning the Vita will be dead by 2015. Also note to future hardware companies never name your system after the word "life" in a foreign language it dosen't work.

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Bankai

96. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

@Bankai I'm with you on what Sony should do. Still, those aren't exaclty the best group of games to sell a system. Axelier Totori had some success, but the Japanese sales numbers for the PS3 version aren't super huge (at least not as huge as any of the properties Nintendo's got) (also, thank goodness that Japan gives out sales numbers. It's annoying the other territories don't). Keiji Inafune is cool and all, but a new IP like Soul Sacrifice won't be selling systems unless if it's absolutely phenomenal (which is plausible, considering the man's legacy; I'm just not betting on it). As for DOA5+, DOA4 was a 360 exclusive, and look how that turned out. As for Final Fantasy, of course it will sell well, it's Final Fantasy, but I don't know if it will sell Vita's considering it'll also be on PS3. And that's... four games. 3 of them remakes, two already on the PS3.

I wouldn't bet against Soul Sacrifice. Sony's throwing a lot of money at that one from what I can tell, and while it won't hit Monster Hunter numbers, it might be just enough to zap the Vita's heart back into action.

Dead or Alive 5 outsold Tekken Tag 2 in Japan. That game's a certifiable hit and while it won't necessarily be singlehandedly responsible for a Vita revival, it WILL count as a recognisably quality game on the Vita. It's all about perception in the market, and DOA5 will go a ways to fixing that theory that people have that the console has no good games.

But the important one is Atelier Totori. Here's why: The PSP's success in Japan can be traced back to a certain kind of... otaku... popularity that the DS (and 3DS, for that matter) doesn't enjoy, what with Nintendo being quite protective of its reputation.

I'm talking about games like Akiba Strip and such - games that never got released in the west. Atelier Totori is far more palatable than those games, but it's a game that attracts that crowd.

Once the otakus start showing interest in a console, the other little developers will also pay attention to that console. Should Atelier Totori, the first game of its kind, sell relatively well, you can expect to see a flood of those games announced over the next year or two, which will lead to a exponential spike in Vita sales.

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moomoo

97. Posted:

I don't think Sony is expecting the Vita to do as well as the 3DS. I don't even think they were expeting that from the outset. However, their handling of the system indicates they don't care too much about it (especially in Japan), which is what I personally find most disconcerting about it.

@Bankai Heh, I guess underestimation isn't the best of ideas. Still, with Nintendo's aggresive approach, there's a chance that even the "moe" stuff will show up on 3DS, since they seem to want dominance over their competition. Regardless of it all, though, that's a really niche audience, even for Japan. I guess devs would flock to it due to their audience being there, but if the only games on the system are of that nature, I don't know if that'd be a success on Sony's end. Then there's the consideration that it won't sell particularly well in the first place, since the people who wanted it already have it on their PS3's. Yeah, at that point we could just point what-ifs everywhere, but it's still something worth considering.

LZBirdboi wrote:

I lost a bet. I thought the Vita was gonna get buried after the 3DS got Monster Hunter. Maybe this year :p

Remember that week when the 3DS outsold the Vita 47-1?
Speaking of bets, I wonder how TWEWY sales numbers are on iOS :P

Edited on by moomoo

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Bankai

98. Posted:

@Bankai Heh, I guess underestimation isn't the best of ideas. Still, with Nintendo's aggresive approach, there's a chance that even the "moe" stuff will show up on 3DS, since they seem to want dominance over their competition.

It'd be a massive shift in attitude for Nintendo. There has been the occasional strange game appear on Ninty's handhelds - the DS has that game where you had to touch random girls all over to prove they're witches, and the 3DS has that game where you're locked in a room with a girl and..

But those are real oddities, and more importantly, they don't sell well on Nintendo's consoles. Nintendo has the same reputation for being family friendly in Japan as it has over here.

The PSP was the handheld for the perverts. There were some brilliant games of that vein on that console. It sounds silly, but the Vita needs to tap back into that market.

Amusingly enough, what limited success the Xbox 360 has in Japan was actually for its adult games. You don't buy an Xbox 360 in Japan by accident. That kind of product goes down well with the adult industry. The console would have stopped selling entirely if it wasn't for those games, and Microsoft was more-or-less forced to support them.

Regardless of it all, though, that's a really niche audience, even for Japan. I guess devs would flock to it due to their audience being there, but if the only games on the system are of that nature, I don't know if that'd be a success on Sony's end.

It's actually a very big audience. Dating games and idol games regularly end up at the top of Japanese charts and there are a shedload of little developers making these games.

We don't see the vast majority of them in the west because unless Aksys or NIS America decide it wont put them all in jail, no one else will touch them.

And I'm telling you, these games carried the PSP for a very long time. Akiba Strip had the PSP ahead of the 3DS for weeks.

Edited on by Bankai

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moomoo

99. Posted:

@Bankai That's actually not a bad idea. Limited competition would mean the games would sell pretty well.
And while we're on the note of the 360, Someone needs to make an adult Kinect game. The potential is massive. And I'm not talking about that game where you squirted girls with water guns while they wore apparel to accomidate the fetishes of its audience. No no no, I'm talking about the end all be all of the genre. The time is now.

Edited on by moomoo

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Bankai

100. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

@Bankai That's actually not a bad idea. Limited competition would mean the games would sell pretty well.
And while we're on the note of the 360, Microsoft needs to make an adult Kinect game. The potential is massive. And I'm not talking about that game where you squirted girls with water guns while they wore apparel to accomidate the fetishes of its audience. No no no, I'm talking about the end all be all of the genre. The time is now.

It actually exists. I won't post on this forum for the sake of taste, but a bit of Google searching will give you all the info you need.

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