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Topic: Which Zelda game has the best (x)?

Posts 121 to 130 of 130

Haru17

@subpopz No one should actually try playing an MMO, but I played WoW for like 4 years for what it's worth.

On having a poor understanding of things though, you should probably realize that genres are not defined by what the words actually mean but by how the influential works within them choose to implement them.

MMO means massively multiplayer online, but what MMO actually means is an online game that uses auto attacking, 'action bars,' fetch quests, and "YOU are special." If it didn't people would refer to Destiny as an MMO, which it technically is but people think of it differently because it's actually fun to play in part.

And no, Zelda stories aren't all as bad as Breath of the Wild and Shulk Chronicles. In Twilight Princess Midna actually does things unlike Princess Zelda and is an actor in the plot, in Majora's Mask people have lives that go on regardless of whether Link is there or not, and in The Wind Waker Tetra and the King have their own agendas and act on them alone and by helping the player. There's a difference between 'other characters do literally nothing' and 'it's a game with one playable character who does all the gameplay.' You'll find it if you look for it.

Capcom Nintendo Life Community Manager

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Ralizah

@Dezzy That's definitely a fair criticism. I personally thought the non-linear flashback delivery method for the back story fit well with the game's structure and tone in general, but I could see it disappointing someone who wanted a big, well-paced and linear narrative like one usually gets with Zelda games. And while I appreciated the way the story was structured here, I wouldn't necessarily want to see it become the series standard.

Edited on by Ralizah

Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

subpopz

Haru17 wrote:

@subpopz No one should actually try playing an MMO, but I played WoW for like 4 years for what it's worth.

On having a poor understanding of things though, you should probably realize that genres are not defined by what the words actually mean but by how the influential works within them choose to implement them.

MMO means massively multiplayer online, but what MMO actually means is an online game that uses auto attacking, 'action bars,' fetch quests, and "YOU are special." If it didn't people would refer to Destiny as an MMO, which it technically is but people think of it differently because it's actually fun to play in part.

Are you kidding about how genres are defined? Cause it's hilarious to read this after your little thing about openworld games. I said the exact same thing to you, worded differently about open world games, the influence of having free range exploration and not by the letter of the words. But I guess you can just pick that to apply when it suits you, much like making up what defines a genre or defining a gameplay type by the hardware it runs on. And it's actually fairly obviously you only played WoW - a 13 year old MMO, since you define an entire genre by it.

Man, this thread got derailed. We know BotW wasn't the linear Zelda you wanted and you hate it, seemingly passionately. That doesn't mean it's an MMO or that other people can't like it without being told they only like it cause they bought into the marketing, don't like being asked to think and are ignorant.

Edited on by subpopz

subpopz

Haru17

@subpopz You're the one hurling insults at me here and making this thread about individuals, not games. And it's great you think I'm a hypocrite and all, but I do not remember the exchange you're talking about. Link it if you care to hear what I have to say. Or you could just keep up with the insults thing.

I don't see what's so out there about my point about genres. What people make in that genre define a genre. What is, is. It's a pretty broad and flexible point.

And again, because there seems to be confusion, I have not called Zelda Wii U an MMO in sincerity. I even think it's a good game, just not a good Zelda game.

Edited on by Haru17

Capcom Nintendo Life Community Manager

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Dezzy

Ralizah wrote:

@Dezzy That's definitely a fair criticism. I personally thought the non-linear flashback delivery method for the back story fit well with the game's structure and tone in general, but I could see it disappointing someone who wanted a big, well-paced and linear narrative like one usually gets with Zelda games. And while I appreciated the way the story was structured here, I wouldn't necessarily want to see it become the series standard.

I don't mind the style of storytelling they went with. There just needed to be a lot more of it. The memories were too short and at least half were meaningless fluff.
As I suggested in the main Zelda thread, they should've had much longer memories and then tied them into the shrine completion so that every 10 shrines you do, another big memory is unlocked somewhere on the map. That would've made more story and also meant there was more reward for completionists.

Converted from Sony to Nintendo during 7th gen and never looked back.

subpopz

@Haru17

Haru17 wrote:

You've clearly bought into Breath of the Wild's marketing taglines though.

Haru17 wrote:

Apparently you've also remained ignorant of the open world industry for the past decade

Haru17 wrote:

a much better choice if you can't stand a game actually asking you to think through puzzles

Haru17 wrote:

it isn't open world because it's top-down and because its open world uses loading screens. Witcher, AC, and other games don't have to use as many loading screens because they don't have dungeons. The distinguishing factor between Zelda 1 and modern open world games are, of course, the fact that it's a 2D game made before open world games were even coined and the fact that its overworld has to be loaded in every few steps.

Open world isn't defined by it's hardware nor tropes you've listed any more than MMO is. Why is the term 'open world' is strictly defined, but MMO is broad and flexible? I have not hurled any insults or called you anything for how you feel about BotW. You clearly do not like it as a Zelda game and that's fine. I am calling into question your comparisons to genres it doesn't fit into. Comparing it to Xenoblade is fair enough, but not MMO's, which is an unrelated form of game targeted toward a very different demographic.
Perhaps some of us just like it. Perhaps we consider it a return to the original Zelda's style of open world and like it not being linear and on rails. Sure, it's lacking dungeons, but it's a free, open adventure. Perhaps you could just accept that a rather large population of people love it and consider it a great Zelda game.
The quotes above are why I pursued your reasoning on this. I questioned how you claim to know the "point of Zelda" based on your own perceptions of it and why I liked BotW as a return to the vision of the original, which would be my conflicting perception, to which your reply resorted to insulting and condescension.
The point was that they cannot make a game that fits everyone. Zelda has been around so long it means different things to different people. It clearly means something different to you than me. I have not enjoyed the last few Zelda games, especially the DS ones, because I felt they lost the essence of what Zelda is and became a showcase for Nintendo to show off bizarre ways to use their gimmicky hardware.
Everyones perception of what makes a good Zelda game can differ. You hate it, that's fine, but dont call me a sucker that bought into a tagline or someone who doesn't like to think when playing games because I genuinely enjoyed it.

Edited on by subpopz

subpopz

Ralizah

@Dezzy I don't think making memories longer would have been a good idea. As they are, memories were rewarding little tidbits that helped you understand certain characters and their relationships. Turning them into long cutscenes would have made them a bit of a nuisance to collect.

I also don't see the point in tying memory availability to how many shrines you've completed. Shrines are already rewarding to finish.

Considering it's not a narrative-driven game, I think the amount of plot material was sufficient.

Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

shadow-wolf

@Haru17 So a bit unrelated to what's being discussed here, but I absolutely love Twilight Princess now that I'm 15 hours in (at the very beginning of Arbiter's Grounds). I love the OoT and MM references, love the epic scope of the game, love the epic boss fights, love the intervening overworld sequences like defending the carriage, love the humor sprinkled here and there, love the cast of characters, and love Midna as a character. Speaking of which, the section in which Midna's Lament plays is now one of my favorite Zelda moments ever. It's such a powerful sequence. It would have been perfect if the generic enemy music did not interrupt Midna's Lament, but I ran so fast past each enemy that it barely affected my experience anyway.

One thing that did make me laugh a bit was finding Rusl at Telma's Bar. The same guy who looks for his son, gets badly injured, goes looking for the children again ... is now just chilling at a bar in Castle Town? Not to mention he sounded like he had never been to Castle Town earlier in the game. It just seems a bit out of character for Rusl. But other than that I love the characters, I think they must be the second best supporting cast of characters in any Zelda game (behind MM).

Edited on by shadow-wolf

shadow-wolf

Haru17

@shadow-wolf That's great, which dungeon are you on now? Upon replays I really dug how Link just crumbles to his knees after the vision about the interlopers, like the 'light' spirit's power was so incomprehensible that it just overloaded his mind. Very LotR-like.

I really like the supporting cast too. The annoying kids that Link plays big brother to, the prince and his mother, Telma's cat XD. They're really important because without them, without little old Ordon, the epic adventure has no scale, no contrast is drawn that puts it in perspective.

I like that the game cares enough about its NPCs that you have to go back and tell Ordon that the children are safe in Kakariko. Because that's what Link would do, that's what any human would do. It is a little weird though that Link doesn't take the kids back to Ordon like he took Ralis to Kakariko in the carriage. I guess Malo wouldn't have been able to run Malo Mart if she went back home? I don't know, but I don't really feel strongly about the Resistance either way. Ashei's design is so cool though. The detail in the interiors which carries over to assets like NPC clothing is one of my favorite things about Twilight Princess.

Edited on by Haru17

Capcom Nintendo Life Community Manager

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shadow-wolf

@Haru17 I'm at the very beginning of Arbiter's Grounds.

Speaking of the prince, I'm surprised that plot point was left dangling. I was so caught up in saving Midna and getting the Master Sword and reaching the desert that I forgot to check on Ralis and see if his condition improved and if Zora's Domain gets him as a king, or if he remains in Kakariko for the duration of the game. I'm surprised the plot didn't include that in the same way saving Colin or getting Ilia and Ralis to Kakariko or even letting the parents in Ordon know their kids were safe were integrated into the plot. I also agree about it's unfortunate you don't see the kids back in Kakariko but oh well.

You're right about Ordon. It really gives weight to this game's plot when you see not just Link but his fellow villagers thrust into the huge world outside of their little village and being disoriented by the scope of the world and its activities.

Also, I see what you mean about Ganondorf not being shoehorned in. In the Zant scene after the Lakebed Temple he mentions the magic he obtained from his "god" as more powerful than Twili magic. And explicitly mentions he serves a higher-up. It makes sense how Ganondorf with his Triforce of Power was able to give Zant the power to rule the Twili.

shadow-wolf

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