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Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

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Bankai

141. Posted:

Good to see you haven't changed, you sexy cynical devil, you.

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Noire

142. Posted:

Eww, get a room. No getting your Lover's Comfort buff in this thread plz x__x

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JayArr

143. Posted:

ikr Feenie, its like reading a forum nerd version of "Lusty Argonian Maid". x____x

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Slapshot

144. Posted:

PolkaDotChocobo wrote:

Final Fantasy XIII (and XIII-2) and Skyrim are the perfect reason why we should stop calling JRPGs RPGs. They're not. You may as well compare Final Fantasy XIII-2 to Mario.

The fact that people insist on comparing Skyrim and Final Fantasy is exactly why they end up disappointed by one or the other.

Agreed! And I'll 1-up it and say that I don't think Mass Effect should be considered an RPG either. The mastermind behind The Elder Scrolls, Ken Rolston, had bid disagreements with Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare on this exact subject at this past years GDC "RPG Influencers" breakfast. Rolston believes that RPG's should be games that the player "writes his own story" inside, instead of the offerings that BioWare uses: extremely heavy uses of dialog, story driven narratives with few player choices, movie-esque characters, etc. BioWare wants you to see and play what they want you to and you get the option of making a few major choices throughout the games - it's actually quite a linear affair.

I enjoy the Mass Effect series and would agree that it's an RPG-lite, but I don't agree that their games are full-fledged RPG titles at all. I don't think they should be considered as a leading RPG company. If that's so, then Quantum Dream should have included a skill tree in Heavy Rain and they'd be one too!

Something tells me I just opened a can of worms!

Edited on by Slapshot

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Nintendo6400

145. Posted:

I gave into getting this game last week and I love it, not as much zelda though. I its coming to Wii u Im trading in copies.

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Slapshot

146. Posted:

1.4 Patch Notes are now live:
http://www.pushsquare.com/37470/bethesda-details-latest-skyri...

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LordTendoboy

147. Posted:

Slapshot wrote:

PolkaDotChocobo wrote:

Final Fantasy XIII (and XIII-2) and Skyrim are the perfect reason why we should stop calling JRPGs RPGs. They're not. You may as well compare Final Fantasy XIII-2 to Mario.

The fact that people insist on comparing Skyrim and Final Fantasy is exactly why they end up disappointed by one or the other.

Agreed! And I'll 1-up it and say that I don't think Mass Effect should be considered an RPG either. The mastermind behind The Elder Scrolls, Ken Rolston, had bid disagreements with Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare on this exact subject at this past years GDC "RPG Influencers" breakfast. Rolston believes that RPG's should be games that the player "writes his own story" inside, instead of the offerings that BioWare uses: extremely heavy uses of dialog, story driven narratives with few player choices, movie-esque characters, etc. BioWare wants you to see and play what they want you to and you get the option of making a few major choices throughout the games - it's actually quite a linear affair.

I enjoy the Mass Effect series and would agree that it's an RPG-lite, but I don't agree that their games are full-fledged RPG titles at all. I don't think they should be considered as a leading RPG company. If that's so, then Quantum Dream should have included a skill tree in Heavy Rain and they'd be one too!

Something tells me I just opened a can of worms!

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Why are RPG's so hard to pin down, yet other gaming genres aren't nearly as complicated to label?

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Aviator

148. Posted:

JRPGs?

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LordTendoboy

149. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

JRPGs?

Read @Slapshot's post above me. He was saying those games shouldn't be called RPG's at all.

Edited on by LordTendoboy

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Bankai

150. Posted:

JRPGs aren't RPGs. That was the point, Tendoboy.

What's an RPG? Go look at Dungeons and Dragons. The pen-and-paper game, not the video games. That was the original RPG. The first RPG. And as such, the philosophy driving that game is the definition of RPG.

JRPGs are nothing like Dungeons and Dragons. JRPGs are not RPGs, though semantically, they're a useful term to describe the likes of Final Fantasy.

Doesn't make them RPGs.

(and now thanks to keyword loading, NintendoLife is going to be the #1 search result for "RPG" in Google. You guys owe me :P)

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Except Mario is a platformer, by the definition of platformers. Soul Calibur is a fighter by the definition of fighters. JRPGs are not RPGs by the definition of RPGs.

See the difference?

Edited on by Bankai

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Slapshot

151. Posted:

I've go no need for explanations now thanks to you guys. :D

Back on the Skyrim topic. I finally decided to make my trek down to see the Greybeards and I got attacked by a dragon. I flippin' slaughtered it with like three hits with my new great-sword I built. :D

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Ravage

152. Posted:

If you've never been to Markarth, I highly recommend doing so. It looks so beautiful.

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Sam_Loser2

153. Posted:

Dragon Priests are just not fair....

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LordTendoboy

154. Posted:

PolkaDotChocobo wrote:

JRPGs aren't RPGs. That was the point, Tendoboy.

What's an RPG? Go look at Dungeons and Dragons. The pen-and-paper game, not the video games. That was the original RPG. The first RPG. And as such, the philosophy driving that game is the definition of RPG.

JRPGs are nothing like Dungeons and Dragons. JRPGs are not RPGs, though semantically, they're a useful term to describe the likes of Final Fantasy.

Doesn't make them RPGs.

(and now thanks to keyword loading, NintendoLife is going to be the #1 search result for "RPG" in Google. You guys owe me :P)

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Except Mario is a platformer, by the definition of platformers. Soul Calibur is a fighter by the definition of fighters. JRPGs are not RPGs by the definition of RPGs.

See the difference?

Then what exactly are they? If they aren't specifically RPG's, then what genre do they fit into?

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Ravage

155. Posted:

@LordTendoboy: JRPG's.

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LordTendoboy

156. Posted:

Ravage wrote:

@LordTendoboy: JRPG's.

But @Slapshot and @PolkadotChocobo said they aren't RPG's.

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Ravage

157. Posted:

I never said they were, they are JRPG's.

Edited on by Ravage

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theblackdragon

158. Posted:

LordTendoboy wrote:

But @Slapshot and @PolkadotChocobo said they aren't RPG's.

They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

Edited on by theblackdragon

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Ravage

159. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

LordTendoboy wrote:

But @Slapshot and @PolkadotChocobo said they aren't RPG's.

They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

Very good example. Thank you.

Anyhow, I was curious if there are other people like me, where when you level up, you don't necessarily put your perk into a skill tree, but hang onto a bunch before using a couple. I tend to hang onto 2 or 3 at a time in order to get better perks later when my skills are a higher level.

Edited on by Ravage

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LordTendoboy

160. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

LordTendoboy wrote:

But @Slapshot and @PolkadotChocobo said they aren't RPG's.

They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

Well thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize Japanese RPG's were in their own separate genre. I always assumed they were all just RPG's.

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