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Topic: PS Vita TV announced. (Oyua am cry)

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OptometristLime

181. Posted:

Glad you were able to articulate your point @kkslider5552000

My disdain for this console stems from its awkward positioning in the marketplace. The price of the machine is nigh irrelevant against the broader issue of advertising an identity, so it can reach a mainstream audience. Sadly the more I read about it the less convinced I am that this is a console for the masses. For starters its intimate tie-in with the PS4 immediately places it in Sony territory, where the affluent console owner who can afford a PS4 will snap this up without another thought. Yet there is an issue here for uninformed consumers, who will see this product and assume it's the next Sony console. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some people to misinterpret certain features, or even believe it to be a mini PS4.

As kkslider alluded to, the fledgling gamer may only have access to what they see on a store shelf. The 'welcome to the future' message, where you are supposed to know that you can download a much broader selection, may be lost on this crowd (as it was with the PSP GO). While the entry-level price is all well and good, a person choosing this system on cost alone more or less, may find only a woeful collection of games.

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CanisWolfred

182. Posted:

OptometristLime wrote:

Glad you were able to articulate your point @kkslider5552000

My disdain for this console stems from its awkward positioning in the marketplace. The price of the machine is nigh irrelevant against the broader issue of advertising an identity, so it can reach a mainstream audience. Sadly the more I read about it the less convinced I am that this is a console for the masses. For starters its intimate tie-in with the PS4 immediately places it in Sony territory, where the affluent console owner who can afford a PS4 will snap this up without another thought. Yet there is an issue here for uninformed consumers, who will see this product and assume it's the next Sony console. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some people to misinterpret certain features, or even believe it to be a mini PS4.

As kkslider alluded to, the fledgling gamer may only have access to what they see on a store shelf. The 'welcome to the future' message, where you are supposed to know that you can download a much broader selection, may be lost on this crowd (as it was with the PSP GO). While the entry-level price is all well and good, a person choosing this system on cost alone more or less, may find only a woeful collection of games.

But why in this day and age would consumers not know they can download games? Surely they'd be used to the idea from phones and tablets, yes? Even the Roku 3, a streaming device, has a (very limited) selection of games. If they can find the store, which the Playstation Vita so willingly takes you to when you start it up for the first time, they won't be short on games. Besides full Vita titles, PSOne games, and smaller PSN titles, there are also Playstation Mobile games and Playstation Minis that don't always use the touch features, so they'll have plenty of options right out the gate.

And it's Sony's job to advertise the Vita TV correctly. Uninformed consumers shouldn't be a problem if they put out the right information correctly. If they can't do that, then I have no remorse for them. IIRC, they got a new advertising firm a few years back. Hopefully they'll earn their pay for both the PS4 and the Vita TV once they're out.

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SCAR392

183. Posted:

@CanisWolfred
There's already not enough info for this device as it is. I already have tons of questions that haven't been answered in regarda to PS Vita TV.
This entire thing should clarify why I don't care to follow Sony at all.

They didn't explain the capabilities of remote play, Gaikai, or if I even need to buy this if I already have a PS3. Besides the Vita games/features, I should be able to use my PS3, as-is, as a remote play device from the PS4.

This is aside the fact that you can only have 2 systems tied to your account for Sony systems for gaming, unless they're counting Gaikai streaming as a video file(which is allowed on up to 1 home/3 portable devices for Sony accounts).

This whole situation looks like a home project for the Sony after market, IMO.

Edited on by SCAR392

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Peach64

184. Posted:

@Scar392 You can link your account to two PS3s, two PSPs etc, not just 2 systems over all. If you think that's a reason not to buy anything from Sony, then how do you justify Nintendo making you buy games all over again for each system you have?

You then complain they didn't explain features that don't exist yet. Again, it would be like saying no point in buying any Nintendo stuff as they didn't explain their unified account system yet. Why the heck would you expect to be able to use a PS3 to remotely access a PS4? Why would they ever put anything into the PS3 when designing it almost 10 years ago to allow it stream from another console?

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SCAR392

185. Posted:

Peach64 wrote:

@Scar392 You can link your account to two PS3s, two PSPs etc, not just 2 systems over all. If you think that's a reason not to buy anything from Sony, then how do you justify Nintendo making you buy games all over again for each system you have?

You then complain they didn't explain features that don't exist yet. Again, it would be like saying no point in buying any Nintendo stuff as they didn't explain their unified account system yet. Why the heck would you expect to be able to use a PS3 to remotely access a PS4? Why would they ever put anything into the PS3 when designing it almost 10 years ago to allow it stream from another console?

NVM, I read it wrong. It says "2 PS3 and/or 2 PSP". So I would just replace 1 PS4 or Vita as a home or portable console.

Do you seriously think PS3 can't handle a PS4 stream? I bet you people were streaming stuff over Linux before it got the boot. These machines can do alot more than they let them, and that's why I'm disappointed and choose not to care about Sony.
My point is that Sony hasn't explained or included alot of features I already know are possible.

The same argument works for Nintendo as well, but this is one bunch of BS that proves Nintendo is given alot more grief than they should be. This thing can't even stream a separate multiplayer screen as far as we know. I would expect that would be info they would include, yet it's not there.

Sony may have the account system somewhat on lock(besides being the only 1 of the 3 being hacked and actually effecting customers), but this thing adds nothing aside from what tons of already existing devices can do, including the PS3.

I'm not talking to you in general, but if you think about things a little bit more, this does nothing in comparison. It's a different device that does the same thing, yet doesn't in some areas.

You might as well pay the extra $100 for touch, 3G, portability, and remote play on the Vita.

EDIT: BTW, PS3 can stream from PC. It supports ad-hoc.

Edited on by SCAR392

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SCAR392

186. Posted:

Just for the record, all of the 3 are doing questionable stuff.

Now Microsoft is saying Xbox 360 BC is possible, which I already knew since the beginning(and people disagreed with me), BTW. It's just a matter of programming for these things to do this s***.

Also, Xbox One won't support ext. HDDs, and Sony hasn't commented about anything.

We're getting to the point where it's apparent that people gave crap to Nintendo when everyone else fell short in similar areas.
It's hypocrisy at it's finest while considering no one really was confident about much of anything, yet always had an idea in mind.

People want more and more, then don't know what the hell to do with it, or never cared either way.

In conclusion, the whole thing is a big mess on all 3 fronts as of now(IMO), yet Nintendo's been the one taking bullets for couple years or so, now.

EDIT: It's the exact same argument I ALWAYS make in regards to PS2 BC on PS3 slim systems. You seriously can't tell me a PS3 can play a PS1 game, but not a PS2 game. BS to the max!!

Ya, Sony was just lazy at programming and didn't give a damn.

Edited on by SCAR392

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CanisWolfred

187. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

You seriously can't tell me a PS3 can play a PS1 game, but not a PS2 game. BS to the max!!

As someone who used to be really into emulation, I can assure you PS2 games are way harder to emulate. And again, this is the difference between software and hardware emulation. Software Emulation is resource-heavy, and you need a powerful machine to keep from suffering significant slowdown when you're dealing with higher performance games like the PS2. Not to mention you need to fine tune the program with each individual game - all 2000 of them in the PS2's case. Hardware emulation makes things much easier, and the PS3 used to have PS2 hardware within it. Yes, even the PS3 models that used Software emulation still had the GPU of the PS2. Without it, the PS3 simply can't emulate them properly. Sure, it can emulate PS1 games easily, but so could the PS2 slim. The PS1 is just easier to emulate, due to both programming and simplistic hardware.

PS2 Classics, mind you, are a different story, since they've gone through special processes to be compatible with the PS3. Hence why they have to charge $10 minimum for them.

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WaLzgi

188. Posted:

I don't think this will be the "salvation" of the Vita. There's no point in releasing games if the majority of consumers want the console version of the Vita. It would have to compete with the PS4, Wii U, Xbox One, PS3, 3DS, and the 360.

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CanisWolfred

189. Posted:

ScroogeMcLz wrote:

I don't think this will be the "salvation" of the Vita. There's no point in releasing games if the majority of consumers want the console version of the Vita. It would have to compete with the PS4, Wii U, Xbox One, PS3, 3DS, and the 360.

Maybe it won't be the salvation, you're talking as if it hold no value. It's $100 and you get more powerful games that any other machine for that price. Again, it opens doors for casuals who either want a streaming device with gaming capabilities, or want some gaming without spending too much money. It also opens doors for less affluent people. It's much easier to afford a $100 console to do a little gaming than to save up for $250-$400 devices if you're on a budget.

And it's also good as a cheap extra for other gamers, including those who intend to get a PS4.

Really, I don't see how this could possibly go wrong (it's already selling out in Japan), and I've been wanting the big console makers to do stuff like this for a while - put out cheap consoles of their own to suppliment their new expensive ones so they get the best of both world instead of having to wait for until they can afford to drop the prices down to something more people are willing to pay to get the big influx of sales.

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Retro_on_theGo

190. Posted:

I am definitely the market this is aimed it! I want!

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SCAR392

191. Posted:

@CanisWolfred
I know how it works, that's why I think Sony is stupid. This whole spec non-sense regarding the PS4 is Atari Jaguar all over again, because actual performance is all that matters in the end, and it's pretty apparent Sony doesn't know how to actually use it, otherwise we'd see alot better performance in comparison.

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SCAR392

192. Posted:

I also want to add, that 2DS still has all the same features as 3DS besides 3D. That's $30 more, has a larger library, has Pokemon, Streetpass is a utilized feature, uses SD cards, etc.
How is Sony suppose to compete with a device that retains all of it features and had more to begin with?

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Reala

193. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

I also want to add, that 2DS still has all the same features as 3DS besides 3D. That's $30 more, has a larger library, has Pokemon, Streetpass is a utilized feature, uses SD cards, etc.
How is Sony suppose to compete with a device that retains all of it features and had more to begin with?

Well Vita TV is being referred to a lot as a micro console, I don't think its meant to compete with 2/3DS.

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Sleepingmudkip

194. Posted:

I am upset the way sony doing its 1 party games if you look at the list all the first party games are rated M or not rated at all(Sadly im almost 14) so i cant even get a ps4 at launch,i really hope infamous is rated T because if its not i have no interests in the ps4 and i will only get a vita if i get a ps4 so they lost 2 sales. Sony acts like all kids gone to smart phone well there is a few who did not. so in till some games i can play come out im not getting a ps4(i already have to sneak from my mom to get watch dogs on the wii u)

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SCAR392

195. Posted:

Reala wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

I also want to add, that 2DS still has all the same features as 3DS besides 3D. That's $30 more, has a larger library, has Pokemon, Streetpass is a utilized feature, uses SD cards, etc.
How is Sony suppose to compete with a device that retains all of it features and had more to begin with?

Well Vita TV is being referred to a lot as a micro console, I don't think its meant to compete with 2/3DS.

That won't stop people from drawing similarities and buying a Nintendo system instead.

For as much as people compare basically anything Sony and Nintendo do to each other, it's astounding how PS Vita TV and 3DS/2DS similarities don't exist once you hook it up to a TV.
That's not how I see it at all.

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OptometristLime

196. Posted:

ScroogeMcLz wrote:

I don't think this will be the "salvation" of the Vita. There's no point in releasing games if the majority of consumers want the console version of the Vita. It would have to compete with the PS4, Wii U, Xbox One, PS3, 3DS, and the 360.

So much this. Is it really worth segmenting their market just to gain some sales from lightweight gamers? Maybe if it was a huge breakout hit like Wii... which really was the salvation or 'discovery' of the casual market, in some practical sense. I wouldn't have such a strong opinion, except we are talking about a company that, to their credit, supports a legacy of devices. Yet could potentially splinter their content delivery towards three divergent systems... perhaps they are equipped to handle that. We could talk about the implications for the PS4 sales; Vita TV complements that user base, while targeting the opposite income bracket. The gamer that can afford two consoles from the same publisher, performing arguably a similar or identical (in the case of PS4 streaming) function.

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

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Jaz007

197. Posted:

Sleepingmudkip wrote:

I am upset the way sony doing its 1 party games if you look at the list all the first party games are rated M or not rated at all(Sadly im almost 14) so i cant even get a ps4 at launch,i really hope infamous is rated T because if its not i have no interests in the ps4 and i will only get a vita if i get a ps4 so they lost 2 sales. Sony acts like all kids gone to smart phone well there is a few who did not. so in till some games i can play come out im not getting a ps4(i already have to sneak from my mom to get watch dogs on the wii u)

Not all of Sony's first party is rated M. Uncharted is rated T, imFamous: Second Son will be rated T, and there will be new T rated IPs from Sony in the PS4. Here is a quick list of PS4 games that should be rated T that aren't first party too, FFXV, Star Wars: Battlefront, and Mirror's Edge. That not including any and that are just platformers, or racing games either. I can't play rated M either and I think the PS4 is looking absolutely amazing, like the best gen yet.

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CanisWolfred

198. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@CanisWolfred
I know how it works, that's why I think Sony is stupid. This whole spec non-sense regarding the PS4 is Atari Jaguar all over again, because actual performance is all that matters in the end, and it's pretty apparent Sony doesn't know how to actually use it, otherwise we'd see alot better performance in comparison.

No, no you don't. You haven't the slightest clue. My PC is about on par with the PS3. I can't run PS2 games on very good emulators, even with all the tweaks I've tried. It's harder than you think.

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SCAR392

199. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@CanisWolfred
I know how it works, that's why I think Sony is stupid. This whole spec non-sense regarding the PS4 is Atari Jaguar all over again, because actual performance is all that matters in the end, and it's pretty apparent Sony doesn't know how to actually use it, otherwise we'd see alot better performance in comparison.

No, no you don't. You haven't the slightest clue. My PC is about on par with the PS3. I can't run PS2 games on very good emulators, even with all the tweaks I've tried. It's harder than you think.

So just because you can't get it working on a PC, automatically makes you think PS3 can't do it?

You can't compare PS3 to a PC, so perhaps I have more of a clue than you think. PS3 is still part of the PS family of products, with BC hopefully(but apparently not) being a thought for the people at Sony CO.

Ya, I'm not going to take your PC emulation seriously, especially when that's far from from being a goal I would expect your PC to have, while it is a goal I would expect PS3 to have.

Sony just didn't try as hard as they probably should have.

I can understand if you don't care about PS2 BC at all about it being an issue, but otherwise this is technically a very questionable problem with the knowledge that they are products in the same line.

Edited on by SCAR392

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CanisWolfred

200. Posted:

A console is a specialized computer! There's nothing that would magically make it do things that PCs can't do, the benefit of the console is just that its specs and programing are standardized and at the very least First parties should be able to get more of the console because they'd have access to a great amount of info on how the machine works. And I just meant specs-wise my PC has a comparable level of power.

I'm seriously wondering where you get your so-called knowledge of machines, because it's definitely not the places I've gotten my research...

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