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Topic: The PS Vita Discussion Thread

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Apollo

1,461. Posted:

sykotek wrote:

Apollo wrote:

The article says sales all throughout it so you shouldn't assume otherwise. "Selling out" isn't a good baromoter on it's own. Items can "sell out" due to supply shortages caused in the manufacturing process for example. Perhaps you should consider that the Vita is on store shelves near you because Sony's estimates on their sales were correct and the right amount of units were shipped. Clearing store shelves is only a great scenario for merchants when the demand is dwarfing estimates. Units sold is what we need to take into consideration as an accurate measurement of the success of the console. 2 million units is a good launch in my opinion. How they follow that up in the months to come is the real test. They were expected to accomplish what they've acciomplished so far.

Hey, I'm not trying to start an argument here, but it's not clear. I was just wondering whether Sony was judging by units sold vs units shipped (aka sold to retail)...it wouldn't be the first time they've quoted "sell to retail" numbers vs "sell to end consumer" numbers...and yea, there's a difference. I know it's different for fans, but the short time I spend in retail establishments recently...I don't notice anyone even bother playing with demo Vita units. It's hard to perceive it as anything except general lack of interest in Vita...and also hearing employees speaking negatively about demand for it when I ask them candidly how it is doing, so it's kinda surprising Vita would outsell the 3DS in the same period. I mean, definitely kudos to Sony if they've sold 1.2 million to end consumers worldwide...that would indeed be a surprisingly successful launch.

Not sure why it's surprising. I bought a 3DS last year on launch week and there were lots available in stores. Nintendo also got criticized for not having better launch sales. I'm not sure the 3DS is a good barometer of a successful launch. They probably compared it to the 3DS because it's the only other recent gaming focused handheld released.

The Vita had a far better launch lineup. Almost all features availble on day one. If the numbers are right I'd chalk it up to Sony getting all it's ducks in a row for launch as oppsed to Nintendo failing to do so prior to launch. Nintendo's launch seemed rushed. I think if the 3DS were released in the fall it would have done better on launch.

Edited on by Apollo

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Bankai

1,462. Posted:

sykotek wrote:

Apollo wrote:

Sony says that total worldwide sales were over 1.2 million by February 26

I hate to be that guy, but Vita is available everywhere where I am, no sell outs at retail, not even close. Is there confirmation that Sony isn't stating their combined total sales to retail outlets (Vitas shipped)? ...it wouldn't be the first time they're reporting those numbers as opposed to total sales to end users.

Meanwhile it was sold out here (I had to personally go to four different shops on launch morning to find one), and my Near acivity is about 20 times as active as my StreetPass has been at the best of times.

But really, anecdotal evidence doesn't proove anything on either side.

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Mandoble

1,463. Posted:

Stores are not only running out of Vitas, but also of PSV games :(

Mandoble

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sykotek

1,464. Posted:

(shorter version, lost my last post while typing, hope this one is still somewhat coherent)

I can agree that anecdotal evidence doesn't prove that Vita is a failure or a success...to be honest, I don't even think these launch numbers will be important in the grand scheme of things...I just call it how I've seen it. Maybe Sony has really done well to curb supply issues, maybe everyone that wanted a Vita already has one. It's just interesting to me that it's not hard to find the Vita or games despite many retailers running a B2G1 promo for games for the past weeks. It's interesting that every retail employee who I've asked are saying it didn't perform as well as expected and there appears to be a general lack of interest despite having a great launch line up (I agree, Vita has had a great line up of launch games). I was just shocked, so I thought you guys might want to know my reasons looking from the outside in since the majority of you guys seem to be invested in the Vita already.

TL;DR: I'm getting a Vita someday and I think it has a great line up so far. I don't even think the launch numbers will mean anything really... sales will be sure to pick back up once there's a price drop. I just thought you guys might want to know how it is performing in the SF Bay Area for some perspective compared to the runaway success it is made out to be...it doesn't seem that way.

What is the meaning of life? That's so easy, the answer is TETRIS.

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Apollo

1,465. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

Stores are not only running out of Vitas, but also of PSV games :(

Vita games running out is something I noticed yesterday when I was out.

Apollo

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Apollo

1,466. Posted:

sykotek wrote:

(shorter version, lost my last post while typing, hope this one is still somewhat coherent)

I can agree that anecdotal evidence doesn't prove that Vita is a failure or a success...to be honest, I don't even think these launch numbers will be important in the grand scheme of things...I just call it how I've seen it. Maybe Sony has really done well to curb supply issues, maybe everyone that wanted a Vita already has one. It's just interesting to me that it's not hard to find the Vita or games despite many retailers running a B2G1 promo for games for the past weeks. It's interesting that every retail employee who I've asked are saying it didn't perform as well as expected and there appears to be a general lack of interest despite having a great launch line up (I agree, Vita has had a great line up of launch games). I was just shocked, so I thought you guys might want to know my reasons looking from the outside in since the majority of you guys seem to be invested in the Vita already.

Didnt you already post this same thing pretty much? How scientific was your investigation? How many stores did you survey? What kind of employees did you survey? Did they provide you with sales data? Did you compare this sales data to Sony's Business Plan numbers? Did you do any research on Sony's inventory management? Lets roll up our sleeves and figure this out.

Edited on by Apollo

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warioswoods

1,467. Posted:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

... my Near acivity is about 20 times as active as my StreetPass has been at the best of times.

FACEPALM. They don't work the same way! One is an online app with a massively greater distance covered; the other is a direct person-to-person connect within a small distance.

Let's do the math, comparing the area of coverage:

Area of coverage circle = 3.14 * (radius of coverage) ^ 2
3DS coverage = 3.14 * (100 ft) ^2 = 31,400 sq ft
Vita coverage = 3.14 * (2 miles ~ 10,500 ft) ^ 2 = 346,185,000 sq ft

Vita = 3DS * 11,025

So your area covered by Near when set to 2 miles is 11,000 times that of the 3DS. You can't compare on that basis; heck, if your Near wasn't lighting up your map with tons of hits, there'd be a huge problem. For the 3DS, it just means no one in roughly the same restaurant as yourself is using one.

Twitter is a good place to throw your nonsense.
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Bankai

1,468. Posted:

warioswoods wrote:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

... my Near acivity is about 20 times as active as my StreetPass has been at the best of times.

FACEPALM. They don't work the same way! One is an online app with a massively greater distance covered; the other is a direct person-to-person connect within a small distance.

Let's do the math, comparing the area of coverage:

Area of coverage circle = 3.14 * (radius of coverage) ^ 2
3DS coverage = 3.14 * (100 ft) ^2 = 31,400 sq ft
Vita coverage = 3.14 * (2 miles ~ 10,500 ft) ^ 2 = 346,185,000 sq ft

Vita = 3DS * 11,025

So your area covered by Near when set to 2 miles is 11,000 times that of the 3DS. You can't compare on that basis; heck, if your Near wasn't lighting up your map with tons of hits, there'd be a huge problem. For the 3DS, it just means no one in roughly the same restaurant as yourself is using one.

I really hope you realise I was being flippant with that comment :-/

Digitally Downloaded - best darned game site on the web ;-)

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sykotek

1,469. Posted:

Apollo wrote:

Didnt you already post this same thing pretty much?

No, I'm posting that I agree with you and Waltz, anecdotal evidence isn't relevant and Vita had a good launch line up.

How scientific was your investigation?

Admittedly, not very scientific, as stated above.

How many stores did you survey?

At least a dozen, I go to many stores looking for Skylanders figures and I like chatting with people when I'm out.

What kind of employees did you survey?

Employees that deal with stocking and sales of Vita.

Did they provide you with sales data?

No, I didn't ask for detailed proof, I just took their word for it.

Did you compare this sales data to Sony's Business Plan numbers?

I did not, as I've stated above, in the end, I don't really think these numbers, accurate or not, will matter in the end.

Did you do any research on Sony's inventory management?

Nope, not necessary.

Lets roll up our sleeves and figure this out.

Eureka! I've got it! You've taken my agreeing with you and discrediting my own comments as arguing with you! It's understandable as my last few posts were big walls of text. :)

What is the meaning of life? That's so easy, the answer is TETRIS.

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warioswoods

1,470. Posted:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

I really hope you realise I was being flippant with that comment :-/

But I'll take any opportunity for a little ridiculous maths. ; ) Also, I've seen a few people throw out anecdotes on number of Near vs. Streetpass hits, and it always amazes me given the entirely different nature of the apps.

I can see advantages to both, by the way. Sure, Streetpass isn't as effective here in the US with less population density, so Near surely gives you greater interactions, but I also love the fact that a Streetpass means the person is likely within eyesight. If I'm eating and see the light go on, I can covertly open up the app, see the Mii, and try to figure out which person in the room it might be. That's fun.

Twitter is a good place to throw your nonsense.
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Bankai

1,471. Posted:

warioswoods wrote:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

I really hope you realise I was being flippant with that comment :-/

But I'll take any opportunity for a little ridiculous maths. ; ) Also, I've seen a few people throw out anecdotes on number of Near vs. Streetpass hits, and it always amazes me given the entirely different nature of the apps.

I can see advantages to both, by the way. Sure, Streetpass isn't as effective here in the US with less population density, so Near surely gives you greater interactions, but I also love the fact that a Streetpass means the person is likely within eyesight. If I'm eating and see the light go on, I can covertly open up the app, see the Mii, and try to figure out which person in the room it might be. That's fun.

To be honest, I think Near is the only real weakness of the Vita. I find it to be a horribly clunky way of presenting a nice idea. StreetPass is far more elegant and userfriendly.

But I haven't been frustrated by StreetPass, because I always get at least one hit per day, using public transport to and from work. I can see why people in more remote circumstances would find Near more... active.

Digitally Downloaded - best darned game site on the web ;-)

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Apollo

1,472. Posted:

sykotek wrote:

Eureka! I've got it! You've taken my agreeing with you and discrediting my own comments as arguing with you! It's understandable as my last few posts were big walls of text. :)

Come on now, who are you really fooling here with this smug post? You didn't really agree. To say you agree and then to try and counter with the same points used earlier flies contrary to you really agreeing. That's like a Warrior saying "I surrender" while he continues to gouge combatants eyes out. To paraphrase you and your "walls of text" you said, "yeah, I agree with you guys because I have no tangible evidence but I'm just going to again point out all these things I claim I saw while on my adventure to Zellers, which fly contrary to me actually agreeing and which I cannot prove occurred."

The facts are:

  • Sony says it moved more in the west on launch than the 3DS did.
  • The Vita has sold twice as many titles as units.

Whether or not that good is open to debate but let's not debate the actual facts unless you bring something real to the table. How many some kid says they sold at Zellers in one random town or where ever isn't good information to argue what is considered factual by the industry.

Edited on by Apollo

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Unca_Lz

1,473. Posted:

Apollo wrote:

The facts are:

  • Sony says it moved more in the west on launch than the 3DS did.
  • The Vita has sold twice as many titles as units.

Fact: Sony said this. Fact?: Is this actually the case? ;) Sony loves to exaggerate :P

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Apollo

1,474. Posted:

Lordlz wrote:

Apollo wrote:

The facts are:

  • Sony says it moved more in the west on launch than the 3DS did.
  • The Vita has sold twice as many titles as units.

Fact: Sony said this. Fact?: Is this actually the case? ;) Sony loves to exaggerate :P

Well that's called fraud and people serve long long sentences with bunk mates named "Bubba" typically in those cases...

Apollo

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Unca_Lz

1,475. Posted:

Apollo wrote:

Lordlz wrote:

Apollo wrote:

The facts are:

  • Sony says it moved more in the west on launch than the 3DS did.
  • The Vita has sold twice as many titles as units.

Fact: Sony said this. Fact?: Is this actually the case? ;) Sony loves to exaggerate :P

Well that's called fraud and people serve long long sentences with bunk mates named "Bubba" typically in those cases...

Ok, the 3DS has been out for one year and Vita for two weeks. How the heck did it sell twice as much as the 3DS? You telling me that Sony miraculously pushed millions of Vitas in the first two weeks?

Edited on by Unca_Lz

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Apollo

1,476. Posted:

Lordlz wrote:

Apollo wrote:

Lordlz wrote:

Apollo wrote:

The facts are:

  • Sony says it moved more in the west on launch than the 3DS did.
  • The Vita has sold twice as many titles as units.

Fact: Sony said this. Fact?: Is this actually the case? ;) Sony loves to exaggerate :P

Well that's called fraud and people serve long long sentences with bunk mates named "Bubba" typically in those cases...

Ok, the 3DS has been out for one year and Vita for two weeks. How the heck did it sell twice as much as the 3DS? You telling me that Sony miraculously pushed millions of Vitas in the first two weeks?

No, the Vita has been out in Japan since late December and was just released worldwide last week. It pushed out over 500K units in Japan in the first few week of sales and another near 700K units worldwide in a week which brings you up to the 1.2M units sold. The articles are saying that the Vita sold more units in the West than the 3DS did on it's launch and no where in the articles does it say "twice a many units". In fact the articles say very clearly that the Vita and 3DS had fairly close launches in the West but the Vita wins out in sales on launch in the West.

The 3DS has sold over 12M units in the year its been out and around 5M units in Japan. Some experts believe the Vita can match or beat that 12M units mark by the 3DS but only if they do a price cut later in the year.

Edited on by Apollo

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warioswoods

1,477. Posted:

Did it actually have a better launch in the West than the 3DS? That's not how I saw the numbers broken down, but I might well have missed something.

Here's the analysis by Siliconera, which is just one article I came across that attempted to work out the meaning of that 1.2 million:

As of two weeks ago, PlayStation Vita had sold 578,812 units in Japan. While we don’t have access to sales numbers from the rest of Asia, this leaves us with an upper limit of approximately 621,000 for US/Europe/Asia sales combined.

By comparison, the Nintendo 3DS sold just under 400,000 units in its first week in North America and 303,000 units in its first weekend in Europe, making for about 703,000 units sold at launch

Twitter is a good place to throw your nonsense.
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cfgk24

1,478. Posted:

A Sure sign of good sales is to look at the price of things on Ebay.
Remember when Wii was £179 in the shops but you couldn't get one and they were on Ebay for £280+! That was Demand!.

Red 3ds's were in short supply before xmas and they were more expensive on ebay.

Now there's good supply of PSV and 3DS

I looked at the PSV but prefer my 3DS by far. . . . . .:)

cfgk24

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Apollo

1,479. Posted:

cfgk24 wrote:

A Sure sign of good sales is to look at the price of things on Ebay.
Remember when Wii was £179 in the shops but you couldn't get one and they were on Ebay for £280+! That was Demand!.

Red 3ds's were in short supply before xmas and they were more expensive on ebay.

Now there's good supply of PSV and 3DS

I looked at the PSV but prefer my 3DS by far. . . . . .:)

You're talking supply and demand. When demand is higher than the supply the price typically increases when the market is open to bidding. I'm not sure what your point is. Prices on ebay are not a good indicator of sales, prices on ebay might be an indicator of whether or not supply is meeting demand. Reported sales are a good indicator of sales.

Apollo

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zachts98

1,480. Posted:

Theres a youtube video of naruto storm 1 and 2 being played on it. Epic for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

zachts98