Topic: PC Gaming

@JaxonH what console is that in your picture?

I can already see the eyes rolling from everyone else. “Buckle up, here he goes again” 😉

It’s the GPD Win 2, which is a Windows 10 PC based clamshell handheld with built in buttons and analog sticks hard wired to move the mouse, with a Switch toggle that makes it switch to X-input mode for Steam controller detection. Basically it switches back-and-forth between operating as a mouse in the operating system and operating as a Xbox controller when gaming.

It was $650 through Indiegogo, but now you can only find them for $800 or so. There is a new model releasing soon called GPD Win Max, which makes massive strides forward in the power department, but I am not a fan of it because they made it way too large. It’s like, almost as wide as the Switch with joycon attached, and as a clamshell that’s just too big. It defeats the whole purpose. Furthermore, while the Win 2 runs 7W stock (I set 8.5W profile that boosts to 10W when needed for chokepoints), the new one can run at 15W, 20W and even 25W. It’s WAY more powerful. Can run games like MH World competently on lowest settings. But, despite the battery being 4x the size of mine in the Win 2, because it’s drawing way more power it’s still only gets 2 hours battery life with a AAA game.

And that’s a rough reality with this thing. I’m playing persona 4 I get like 2 hrs 15 min. That could be poor optimization because I do have to run it on a higher power profile then some other games, but still, 3 hrs is the most I get on pretty much any game.

So why do I like it so much? Well...

The reason I love it so much isn’t actually because of the Steam games it can run. I mean, most of my library is too demanding and of the games that actually can run, half of them are now on Switch and run better, look better, have a Gyro aiming and get better battery life. And even of the ones that aren’t on Switch and can run, there’s no Gyro aiming so I’m not going to play games like Wolfenstein New Order on it either, despite really loving that game and the fact it runs and looks amazing on the system. Games like Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are amazing on the Win 2 though. There’s definitely a decent list still.

But I’m getting off track. That’s not the real draw of the system. It’s a nice little bonus but it’s not the real draw.

The real draw, is the fact it’s JUST powerful enough to run Dolphin, and render every game at 1.5x native res, which is JUST enough to not look blurry on the small screen (some games can do the full 720p, in fact most can, But I noticed they tend to have a few stutters here and there, but when I drop it down to 1.5x native they run without a hitch for the most part, and still look almost just as good).

And THAT is the selling point. Not only that, I get 4.5 hrs battery life playing Dolphin games too. Paper Mario Thousand Year Door, in crisp graphics with battery life equivalent to v2 Switch, in a clamshell handheld format? Yes please. Metroid Prime, Zelda Windwaker and Twilight Princess, F-Zero GX, Super Paper Mario, DKC Returns, Sin and Punishment 2? Yes, yes YES PLEASE. It’s a handheld GameCube/Wii. Something I’ve always wanted.

Not only that, but it also runs PSP games flawlessly, N64, SNES, Genesis, all that stuff. But I mainly use it for Dolphin.

@JaxonH well your GPD looks and sounds nice. Theres something maybe you can tell me, how do i get
F-ZERO GX working on the dolphin. I can not seem to get it working. i use romsmania.

@Ninfan
Once you have the .iso file you need to name it game.iso and put it in a folder called F-Zero [GFZE01]

That’s the 6-digit title ID of the game. It’ll be different for every game. You can just google the game name followed by “Title ID” to find out the code that needs to go in brackets after the game’s name. Wii games are the same way, except, instead of .iso files you typically have .wbfs and you name it with the 6-digit title ID. You can have .iso for Wii but it’s limited to 4GB, and always forces 4GB, so nobody typically uses them. You can also have .gc for GameCube but, all of mine are .iso

Also, if it’s a 2-disc game, the first one should be called game.iso and the second should be called disc2.iso

I use a folder called roms in the root of my C drive, then have folders for each system, so a Gamcube folder inside the roms folder. Then put the folder you made with the name from above which contains the game.iso file into the GameCube folder.

Then in Dolphin settings, you tell it what folders to look in to pull games from. Browse to the GameCube folder location and bam. Anything in that folder will show up.

@JaxonH where do you get your dolphin games from?

@Ninfan
Most were ripped from my own collection via a hacked Wii back in the day. But there are some I had to download from the Internet such as Fatal Frame on the Wii with an English fan translation, since it never released outside Japan... Then a few years later after I’d gotten rid of my Wii, I just started downloading the newer games in my collection because it was easier.

Injustice Gods Among Us is free on Steam right now.

@NEStalgia
moved from Switch thread to PC gaming thread

Keyboard for living room use

For $1200 you can grab this with an i5 CPU, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD and a 2070 Super for 1440p gaming with ray tracing on the cheap.

https://cukusa.com/cuk-stratos-micro-intel-b360-i5-9400f-cust...

For $1460 you can go with an AMD Ryzen 3700X 8 Core CPU, 16GB RAM and a 2070 Super. Bump it up to a 2080 Super for another $200.

https://cukusa.com/cuk-stratos-micro-amd-ryzen-custom-micro-a...

And for $1769 you can get the same prebuilt I got, but at specs suited for 1440p 60fps Ultra instead of 4K, choosing the 2070 Super, which Includes ray tracing and is future proofed for 1440p gaming for years to come. You could drop down to 2060 super but lose the ray tracing and won’t be as future proofed. Basically just bumped the GPU up to 2070 Super and the SSD up to 2TB (cause you’ll want at least 2TB of SSD for OS and top games you play).

https://cukusa.com/cuk-stratos-micro-intel-z390-custom-micro-...

Mine is the same one, but with the i9 CPU instead of i7, 32GB RAM instead of 16gb, 2080 ti GPU instead of 2070 Super, same 2TB NVMe SSD, and Windows 10 activation instead of no activation. Basically ups the cost another $1k and I have two 4TB SSDs I purchased separately which was another $900. But I wanted to go all in and not have to worry about upgrades or storage issues for 5-10 years.

I also bought my own USB wireless adapter and Bluetooth adapter. The built in wireless/BT is weak sauce so I went into Device Manager and disabled those so they don’t interfere with the ones I plugged in. But you could try their USB wireless adapter. It’s only like an extra $5. May as well. It’s chef’s kiss all the way. Everything just works. It’s such a pleasant experience.

Oh, and before I forget. SSDs basically started as SLC (single layer cell). These have crazy longevity and write Speeds, but are also crazy expensive. Gen 2 saw MLC (multi layer cell) SSDs which stored TWO bytes of info per cell. Cost came down a bit. Still great write speeds. Still crazy expensive. Then came TLC (tri layer cell), which stores 3 bits of data per cell. Now here is where the problem started. By dividing a single cell into three portions it requires a final resolution to read each portion and that wears the drive out faster. It also takes longer to write. In fact, write speeds were now close to what normal HDDs were. The read speeds were still blitz fast, but write speeds tanked. So what they did is they started adding a cache of SLC to the drive for writing data, where it treats the TLC like SLC to get blazing fast write speeds. But the cache is limited. A 2TB drive may only have 70GB SLC cache. Not a problem for day-to-day use but if you’re ever copying several hundred gigabytes of data at once to the SSD, the write speeds tank to that of a normal HDD. it takes a while for the drive to refresh the cache. As long as you’re spacing out your large data writes and never exceeding the cache, you’ll never notice.

But costs were still high, so now here comes the QLC (quad layer cell), storing 4 bits per cell. And everything people said about TLC is now being said about QLC, except it’s way worse because with QLC the write speeds tank well below that of normal HDDs. As low as 80 mbps. Keep in mind normal mechanical HDDs are around 120 mbps. SLC SSDs can do around 600 mbps. But they add the cache. So most people never notice. Because the read speeds never tank. If you’re just using it to play games you will never know the difference. Not unless you’re downloading hundreds of GB of games and your download speed exceeds that of the SSD, then it’ll slow down. But once the game is on there you’re golden. It reads blazing fast. You’ll never use the write for anything aside from small save writes. But it also comes at the cost of degradation of the drive. They don’t last anywhere near as long as TLC much less MLC (SLC is basically not even sold on consumer level it’s so expensive nowadays- MLC is the top top expensive ones, TLC is now considered “premium” and QLC is now the norm). And some people make a big deal about that but the truth is you’re still getting so many hours of use out of the drive it’s not going to be an issue for 99.9% of people. I use QLC for my 2TB NVMe SSD and am perfectly happy with it as an OS drive.

Now. A 4TB MLC drive is like, almost $1000. A 4TB TLC drive is like $600. A 4TB QLC drive is $450. So you can see how QLC has put SSD within reach for normal consumers. And I got two 4TB TLC drives (the $600 ones) for just $450 each through smart shopping on eBay. So there are deals to be had and prices are still coming down. You want the Samsung EVO brand. Accept no substitutes. With others, especially SanDisk, you risk the high failure rate of their previous designs, which then got passed on to Western Digital Blue SSDs. So Samsung EVO only.

edit
Forgot to mention. SSDs can do like 3,000+ mbps. But because most are housed in hard drive like enclosures with a SATA interface, they are capped by the SATA limit of around 660 mbps. That’s still 5x faster than mechanical drives, but it’s not the full potential due to SATA data transfer limit.

Enter in... the NVMe SSD drive (traditional SATA interface SSD on left, wafer-thin m.2 interface NVMe SSDs on right)

It connects directly to the motherboard (PS5 is using this over PCIE 4.0 interface) and does not experience the speed cap of SATA, allowing them to reach 3,000 mbps or more. Which is 5x faster than traditional SSD, which were already 5x faster than HDD. So 25x faster than normal hard drives. Now, PS5 is going to achieve double that, I think? It’s really impressive but the fact remains, when you’re that fast, you’re already loading in a matter of seconds anyways, so the difference is going to be negligible for most. Load in 2 seconds instead of 4.

Problem is, most motherboards only accommodate one NVMe slot. And those that do offer more slots actually disable 2 SATA ports for every additional NVMe inserted. So we can be a pain if you try to use more than one. There are adapters they sell that plug into PCIE slots but again, it’s a hassle. They just released the first ever 8TB NVMe SSD. But 2TB NVMe is about $200 and pretty common. The CUK pc I linked offers a 2TB NVMe for your OS for $215 extra (already accounted for in quoted price). Totally worth it. Beyond that, IMO it’s best to use traditional SSD for bulk storage of games, since you can easily add 2 more SSD via SATA ports. The PC I linked is a micro build. So way smaller than a normal tower. Space is cramped. But I can show you how to add two additional SSDs using Velcro with adhesive to Velcro the SSDs down to the bottom plate below the GPU. Cheap and effective, easy access to swap out. Just have to clip the cable ties in back to pull out the SATA port and power cable (or two if you’re adding two drives), feed them through to the front to plug into your SSDs, and zip tie cables in back into place again (never neglect good cable management). Took me about 15 min in total (took longer to decide how to attach but once I decided on Velcro the job itself was cake).

also sorry for off topic, maybe we should continue this in the PC thread

Guys, what are some good twin stick shooters for PC? I know the Geometry Wars series.

@JaxonH BTW, I haven't abandoned or ignored your posts here! There's just a tremendous amount of information and links to follow on that

It's a good sales pitch! I think I'm going to have to hang onto that and wait and see where the console prices come in, where the "gotchas" come in, and see if they still do "game sharing" the way it's always worked and do a bit of cost/benefit. And factor in my bad luck..... I'd have to buy two of whatever (always one for me one for another household member) so I have to figure 2 rigs and maintaining them (time/effort/cost) versus 2 (or 4?) consoles, but also factor in Steam/etc allowing only one copy to run at once versus 2 (so far) on the consoles and try to figure out which comes in cheaper. These days customization means little to me....I just don't have time to tweak and tune. It'll probably come down to numbers vs risk. The sheer nerd in me is giddy at looking at this stuff...I had fun with it at the time. But the fun wears out when it stops working or there's incompatibilities, and time spent troubleshooting problems. I get to hunt down miniscule hard to find problems all day every day....I just want to play my games at the end of the day! If I weren't working in a related industry I'd probably enjoy the troubleshooting as a hobby. Once you're paid to do something, it loses its fun I'd love the build, hate the expense, enjoy it if it works, and stream a never ending flow of expletives when it fails. Things may be thrown.

And yet there's the cool part of it. When it does all just "work"....I'm sure there's a mix of being jaded from the past and problems that still linger. (I can't separate any concept of the process from the decade + I spent with it and I have a hard time believing all that magically went away.....especially when I deal all day with those same types of problems in a non-gaming context.)

As for SSDs, yeah, my price knowledge is spotty. I'm frightened to hear about QLC. TLC was bad enough. I swore I'd never touch the stuff with a 100ft pole. I'd rather use spinners. QLC sounds like a nightmare. I only buy SLC and MLC. And I only "stoop" to Samsung if I'm desperate, and only the Pro, not the EVO. I've had odd problems with Pros several times where writes are oddly slow.... Returned one drive and had the same problem with the replacement. Went back to the Intel enterprise grade drives ($$$$$) and the problems went away. BUT I only buy for professional use, and I need absolute unbending reliability and longevity, PLP beyond Samsung's "cache-based PLP", and survival of TONS of massive write cycles at fast speeds. I just balance price with SATA MLC/SLC drives and avoid the NVMe costs. But yea, I think I spent $500 for a 1TB a year or so ago. And that was a ridiculous bargain for one of those. But it's a necessary tool for productivity so I can justify it, kinda. But I hit it with 100+GB transfers constantly and non-stop IO hits, and if it fails or hits a power loss and wasn't safe, I'd be very very hosed with a corrupted encrypted archive. Whole different use case than games.

@NEStalgia
I guess all I can say is, the results speak for themselves. It is 2020, after all. Weve seen how good and easy and streamlined tech has gotten. It really is console like.

Now I'm not saying I dont deal with the occasional issue. But they really occasional, and small fry stuff that isnt a big deal anyways (like taking a bit of research to get Switch Pro permanently paired, not a huge deal, already have PS4 and Xbox and Steam controller, but I eventually got it and now it just works).

I can attest, the Intel CPU with Nvidia GPU combo is problem free.

And I can totally understand wanting the best SSD. But I'd ease those standards for gaming. Once the game is on the SSD, read speed is all that matters. And honestly, even if once in a while you do write 200gb at once and the speed plummets after 70gb, it's not the end of the world. The longevity really isnt an issue. Even with QLC you're getting 5 year warranties and like 600 Terabytes Written on a 4TB SSD. That's writing enough data to fill the entire drive over 150 times!!! That'll never even come CLOSE to happening.

But I get the paranoia. That's why I went TLC, which if done smart you can get for same price as QLC. And the same 5 year warranty and way more TBW. You could write enough data to fill the entire drive, erase, and do it all over again 300 times before failing! And studies show they often last even longer.

So ya, for gaming I'd just trust the low defective rates on the EVO 860s and trust that 5 year warranty that has you covered. Technology isnt perfect but it really isnt a big issue nowadays.

If you're just using your PC to game. Not for work. Just Steam, Dolphin emulator, etc. You're gonna feel like you're playing a console that just has way more freedom. Yes you'll hit an occasional snag here and there. Yes it requires a bit more setup to get everything going at first (get all controllers properly paired, Bluetooth and wifi settings set up, Steam set to allow controller to work as your mouse when running, Bios to allow wake from sleep by pressing a key, and by extension a button...). But that's like a day or two getting things sorted, and then its literally just grab a controller, press a button, PC comes on. Steam is already running. Big Picture like a console. Launch game. Play game. Access gyro in 15 seconds for any game, and it remembers your config so every time after it automatically applies it. Load any community config from within any game in 15 seconds. Premade configs that are super deluxe, include gyro, in game translucent panels for steam controller touchpads, the works).

You know me. I'm a convenience and console kinda guy. If even I can be sold and do a 180... that should speak volumes.

Now the minute you want to go start installing all kinds of other crap and multitask and start installing 3rd party mods... I cant guarantee you wont hit some snags. But if your PC is treated like a console, specifically for gaming, it will make you feel like you're playing a console.

Also. Steam has offline mode. Pretty sure any other PC could play in offline mode similar to how Switch can go offline so 2 can play same game at once. That said, how often do you truly expect to be playing the exact same game at the exact same time?

@Vinny I haven't played some of these, but off the top of my head:

RUINER
ATOMINE
Nex Machina

Bastion is kinda a twin-stick shooter and is thoroughly excellent.

Furi has heavy bullet-hell/twin-stick shooter elements, but also has melee, parrying, and a few other mechanics, alongside being entirely made up of multi-phase boss fights. Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but it's an exceptional game.

@NEStalgia I have a bit of a different experience, having done most of my PC gaming from a laptop, but once you get used to the few issues that can pop-up (and usually there are guides on Steam or readily available for games with compatibility issues or poor ports, mostly just downloading a patch and extracting or running a program/wizard) it's pretty comfortable. Biggest issue is connecting a DS4 and getting DS4 button prompts to appear for certain games. Other big thing, with a lower end GPU is the initial tinkering to get ideal graphics/framerate. Once those things are settled, it's usually no problem for that specific game.

@SomeBitTripFan Thanks for the recommendations! Out of those I only played Bastion on my Vita a few years ago.

@JaxonH "Also. Steam has offline mode. Pretty sure any other PC could play in offline mode similar to how Switch can go offline so 2 can play same game at once. That said, how often do you truly expect to be playing the exact same game at the exact same time?"

That's the big cost catch. Surprisingly often. Either for online/coop games, or just "BECAUSE RELEASE WEEK!" So I really do have to factor in that long-term cost factor into my calculations. Assuming the consoles don't changes that up....we'll see.

@SomeBitTripFan See, that's how I know I've out of the loop for a long time. The idea of "gaming on a laptop" sounds laughably insane. Like "landing a helicopter on the ocean" kind of laughable. The idea was never possible without spending crazy-money on some top end MSI/Alienware rig, or moderate money and getting kind of crummy performance. After that last big rig I did try to go that route, too. I bought a $1k or so budget MSI "gaming" laptop that burned hotter than a thousand suns, had so-so performance (and was quickly obsolete for new games....) and overheated non-stop, locking the system (just like my stupid towers!) I ended up buying cooling fans to shove under it and everything, but nothing helped much. This was early Win7 era.

It's an avenue I'd consider again if it's really better now (and not absurdly priced compared to towers), but at the same time...at this point, isn't an XBox basically just a gaming laptop without a screen, for less than half the price? No Steam, but so long as the sales all have parity, Microsoft Store is cool too.

@NEStalgia I will say I specifically had to buy a laptop with some kind of graphics card for school and buying a gaming laptop was actually a better alternative than anything the university was offering. Specifically, I bought an Inspiron 7000 Gaming. Bought it about 3 years ago at $1k. I don't play a ton of super-recent current gen games, but can get 1080p/60fps on low-ish settings for Doom and just haven't tinkered with RE2 Remake enough to find what I want to put it at, but it's similarly low-ish. It does get hot on demanding games and I use a ventilated platform to ensure I'm not starving it for air, but it has never had any major problems and it doesn't get hot near the WASD keys. Biggest compromise is that it's 5+ pounds much large, so it's more just a movable computer, screen, and keyboard. I don't know if Dell's non-Alienware lineup has continued to be solid, but beyond a few weird driver issues, I haven't had any trouble with it.

I should correct on Steam sharing. If you're playing any game in your library, unless in online mode, a friend can't play any other game in your library. It's also limited to 5 other accounts. If sharing is something you plan on doing often, Steam isn't going to be very kind to you.

Wow, Cyberpunk 2077 looks so good .... Anyone seen the live stream or catch up with it since?

Can’t say Cyberpunk looks quite as good as Witcher 3... technically it looks amazing, and it does look amazing too, just in general. But I think this setting just isn’t my flavor as much as the Witcher 3 world. But the first person will allow for gyro aiming, and that I can do.

But just because I don’t think it looks quite as good as TW3, doesn’t mean I don’t think it still loois fabulous. And it’s gonna play like a boss on PC with a Steam Controller and gyro.

How do you guys feel about the RGB lighting trend? I don't have any acessories with RGB lights, I don't hate them but I wouldn't pay more to have them.

Well, I have the keyboard & mouse that light up, @Vinny .... Prefer not to have that around the actual PC, personally, so I chose a simple black cased one

@Vinny
Love RGB. If you‘ve got a nice PC, may as well have it look slick.

Don’t really care about accessories, but my PC has 6 RGB fans that change colors, and my RAM sticks glow different colors and my water pump glows different colors.