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Topic: Not enough power or lazy developers

Posts 21 to 40 of 93

Jaz007

Blast wrote:

@Hernandez A vast majority of Wii U 3rd party games were stripped down in content or performed worse than other platforms. There are some good 3rd party games but did you honestly expect people to rush and buy a 3rd party game that was already made available on a previous platform? The Wii U userbase just doesn't consist of diehard Mario and Zelda lovers. The Wii U, actually, has a nice diverse library.

How many people who have don't a PS3/360, but have a Wii U would not buy something because of that? I think it would be number that doesn't effect the sales in a big enough way to matter enough.

Jaz007

Kaze_Memaryu

Hernandez wrote:

The only games that have sold really well on the Wii U are Mario games, bundled software (like Nintendo Land) and, of course, Zelda. Not even "the monster" Call of Duty managed to sell on this console.


Edit
To make it more clear: every game on the "best-selling Wii U games" list is a first-party Nintendo title. How sad is that?

That is sad, but not entirely Nintendo's fault. They make good games (for the most part), and 3rd-party dev's aren't trying hard enough at all. They don't use the features, they don't optimize their titles - or in short, they offer no reason to get a WiiU version over the others. Not to mention the technical shortcomings of these games, some of which are only present in the WiiU version, because the dev's didn't do a better job.
No dedication, no victory. It's a rule that many developers circumcise to save some money, but most of them don't even seem to understand that optimizing their games will help boost sales.

Edited on by Kaze_Memaryu

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kkslider5552000

I think the real issue right now is that they have no idea how to appeal to Nintendo's audience, because they think Nintendo's audience is exactly the same as Xbox. A couple of the Japanese publishers are the only ones that do honestly (and maybe WB). I mean, I think it's been proven constantly that quality is not an indicator of guaranteed success. I mean, I could try to figure out how much I would have to multiply Dead Space Extraction's sales to get Carnival Games' sales, but I'd just end up depressed. And all of Wii U's best 3rd party ports were COMPLETELY screwed over from having a chance of succeeding anyway.

They mostly just don't "get" Nintendo. Honestly, that's why I'm pleasantly surprised at Activision's "free Wii U code" Skylanders deal, because it actually showed thought into how they had to sell a game differently because Wii U is actually a different console. And most of Nintendo's stuff lately has been HEAVILY listening to fans and knowing what they want, which is why Nintendo according to most accounts is in a way better position right now than it's been for some time.

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SCRAPPER392

The Wii U isn't underpowered, though. That's a misconception of the online community that actually has no understanding of what the specs mean. Wii U is PowerPC, and Xbox One/PS4 are x86.

Wii U is theoretically around 2 times more powerful than Xbox 360. They just can't balance 1 PowerPC console along with 5 x86 consoles, without obviously catering to the majority of the market. If you ever thought Wii U was under powered tech, you 100% don't understand what the specs mean. By the time 3rd parties would even be able to bother with Wii U, it would have to be beyond convenient for them to start medling with the new PowerPC tech in Wii U.

It doesn't have to do with sales, either, otherwise Xbox One wouldn't be getting as much support as it is. Again, the main factor here is the difference in architectures. Hopefully someday people will realize that you can't compare 2GB of PowerPC RAM to 8GB of x86 RAM. They are defined as different architectures for a reason.

Qwest

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CaviarMeths

@Unca_Lz really said it best. The problem is that major publishers rely on these megabudget blockbuster titles that are designed to deliver a cinematic experience with cutting edge graphics and technology. The Wii U can't compete with the PS4 or XBO in that way, so 3rd parties simply don't bother learning the Wii U's unique architecture to port their games there. It is underpowered, but that's really only important when we're talking about the next AC or Calladoody. Games that are designed for the Wii U from the beginning with its architecture, capabilities, and audience in mind generally have more success (see: Rayman Legends). The trick is just not spending 100 million dollars on your game.

The other problem is marketing. Nobody except Nintendo even bothers advertising games on Nintendo consoles. It's no surprise at all that all the best selling Wii U games are 1st party, because all the 3rd parties forgot to market their game.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

Octane

Underpowered? Compared to what? That's just an arbitrary term anyway. It cannot handle all the Xbox One/PS4 games, but call it ''underpowered'' is another thing. Third party developers have their reasons for not developing for the Wii U. Nintendo's home consoles are completely different, and so are their views as to what they want to offer gamers. Plus, they're the only company that develops their own games, meaning that they already know the hardware, making it easier to create more unique, but more complicated hardware. It's not that they cannot compete with Sony and Microsoft, they don't want to.

Octane

SCRAPPER392

@CaviarMeths
Well, it depends on what you think underpowered is. All the x86 machines brute force the software to run as it does, while PowerPC requires the software to be simpified to the bare minimum of data that can be recognized.

Look at the GameCube's specs vs. the OG Xbox. On paper, the GameCube's numbers were nowhere near OG Xbox's, but it was on par, performance wise. The exact same scenario is at play with the Wii U and Xbox One.

PowerPC code is basically simplified/narrowed down x86 code. Texas can be abreviated to Tx, and it still means the same thing. for example. Or how laugh out loud means LOL. So now compare how much text space and extra time is used to type out a full phrase or word, instead of the abraviated version.

Xbox One - laugh out loud
Wii U - LOL

Qwest

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CaviarMeths

I didn't even have to read it to know that my "SCAR392 mentioned you on NintendoLife" email notification was about him writing his 8,000th draft of "PowerPC isn't underpowered" speech.

Hate to tell you man, but no, "theoretically" twice as powerful as the Xbox 360 is not "on par" with the Xbox One.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

Ralizah

Hernandez wrote:

Kaze_Memaryu wrote:

Hernandez wrote:

The only games that have sold really well on the Wii U are Mario games, bundled software (like Nintendo Land) and, of course, Zelda. Not even "the monster" Call of Duty managed to sell on this console.


Edit
To make it more clear: every game on the "best-selling Wii U games" list is a first-party Nintendo title. How sad is that?

That is sad, but not entirely Nintendo's fault. They make good games (for the most part), and 3rd-party dev's aren't trying hard enough at all. They don't use the features, they don't optimize their titles - or in short, they offer no reason to get a WiiU version over the others. Not to mention the technical shortcomings of these games, some of which are only present in the WiiU version, because the dev's didn't do a better job.
No dedication, no victory. It's a rule that many developers circumcise to save some money, but most of them don't even seem to understand that optimizing their games will help boost sales.

They created a gimmicky controller (again) and now people expect these developers to make full use of it. Well sorry, that's just not gonna happen very often.

There's one thing you guys need to take into consideration though: your typical Nintendo fan is nothing like the people you'll find on this site. They genuinely don't care about the next Batman or Assassin's Creed. They probably aren't even aware of them. They buy what is (heavily) advertised by Nintendo and that's it.
It's because of them that you won't have any third-party stuff to play. Not the developers. Those guys are actually "sad" about not getting your money.

Most of the third-party games I own for the system make better use of the Gamepad than Nintendo's own games do. ZombiU. Rayman Legends. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed. Just off the top of my head.

Stop blaming the consumer for buying superior software. Nintendo is out-of-step with what the rest of the industry wants, and I don't think that' s a bad thing. I haven't cared for the direction Western gaming has been going for a while now. Some people are tired of the hyper-violence, joyless game design, lack of creativity, etc. If third-parties want more support, they shouldn't keep making the same big-budget shooters over and over.

Also, the GamePad isn't gimmicky. It has one central feature and games can utilize it in different ways. If you want gimmickry, try the PS4 controller.

Edited on by Ralizah

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rallydefault

Yea, as others have said, the "underpowered" thing is so arbitrary a term. Someone mentioned Destiny as a great example: it's coming out on 360 and PS3, it COULD definitely come out on the Wii U, but the publisher must not believe the audience is there.

I still stick to a pretty simple argument: the gaming industry "turned" back around the the Gamecube era (I don't count generations, so not sure what number that would be.) Before that time, Nintendo consoles were flooded with third-party stuff and was not known as only a console for first-party titles (though the first-party stuff always rocked). A lot of us remember those days, I'm sure.

And this continued for a while even when the market was Nintendo, Sega, AND Sony - but when the original Xbox came out, things started to change, and I'm not an economist so I won't even pretend to know why. But Nintendo, over roughly the last decade, has become known as the console for kids (and let's be honest, the popular opinion of the Wii didn't exactly reverse that image), and the Xbox became the "hardcore" death machine for serious teen gamers (yes, I'm being sarcastic). And there you have it, and that's what we're still stuck in. And that's what the "news" websites LOVE to write articles about, because they know, just like this thread, that stuff like that will get them views and comments.

rallydefault

CaviarMeths

rallydefault wrote:

Yea, as others have said, the "underpowered" thing is so arbitrary a term. Someone mentioned Destiny as a great example: it's coming out on 360 and PS3, it COULD definitely come out on the Wii U, but the publisher must not believe the audience is there.

360 and PS3 are both safe platforms though. There are still tens of millions of potential customers on each. They're worth developing for.

It's not really worth developing a AAA game for the Wii U if only 200,000 people are going to buy it. Call of Duty sold 240k copies of Black Ops 2 and 170k copies of Ghosts on Wii U, which is probably a fairly accurate barometer for Destiny. Both games sold around 50x more on PS3 and 360.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

CaviarMeths

Hernandez wrote:

The Xbox One is actually selling quite well. The only reason it's still behind the Wii U is because Nintendo released their console earlier. With the price drop and their new exclusives, it may still give the PS4 a run for its money.

It fell behind Wii U in weekly sales 2 weeks ago. It's a much more realistic possibility of it finishing dead last this generation than giving the PS4 a run for its money.

Hermandez wrote:

Also, third-party games sell great on the Xbone. I don't remember the "exact" numbers right now, but I think Call of Duty sold like 2 million copies. Battlefield and Watch Dogs also sold a ridiculous amount. It's pretty obvious why Activision, Ubisoft, EA and all the other major publishers are showing so much support for the console.

Entirely different audience than Nintendo consoles. Wii U has had its multi-million sales games too. They're just not the yearly brown and gray shooters that Xbox owners are obsessed with. Western 3rd parties honestly seem baffled that the average Wii U owner doesn't care about the same games that the average Xbox owner cares about. Even the ones that do are more likely to buy the games on PS3 or Xbox 360 because that's where all the other players are. Why play Black Ops 2 on Wii U against 240,000 people when you can play it on Xbox 360 against 12,000,000 people?

And again, marketing plays a huge role. $60 Mass Effect 3 on Wii U or $50 Mass Effect trilogy on PS3 and Xbox 360? $50 Deus Ex on Wii U or $30 on PS3? And then adverts and TV spots heavily focus on the PS/XB versions of multiplats and maybe slap a tiny Wii U logo on the bottom of the page at the end of it.

Hermandez wrote:

The DualShock 4 is, without a doubt, the best controller I've ever held...

The best controller you've ever held with a YouTube share button and a touchpad that about 6 games will use.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

LzWinky

The best controller is the Gamecube controller.

I always thought the Dualshock design was awful and it still is. It's not very comfortable at all

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shingi_70

From what I hear the PS3/360 versions of Destiny are pretty terrible looking.

My favorite controller is a tie between the Gamecube and Xbox One pad.

WAT!

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GuSolarFlare

sorry for incresing the derail but, while we're still in the controller topic....
so far I've said every time that the best controller was the gamecube controller and my opinion stands the same
but my favorite controller are the DK bongos(no joke, love that plastic heap that works with only 3 or 4 games, it's so cool!!!!)

Edited on by GuSolarFlare

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Jazzer94

Wii U is underpowered compared to PS4 and Xbox One anyone trying say otherwise is borderline delusional, the real problem is 3rd party games attach rate some of this is developers being lazy heck Destiney, GTA 5, Fifa, Battlefield 4 could run on Wii U but would the sales numbers justify using the man power and time to make the port?

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SCRAPPER392

@Hernandez
Well, 3rd parties never supported Wii U as much as Xbox One and PS4. I don't see how 3rd parties expect a console to do well, without their support. They don't even understand Wii U's hardware, otherwise CoD Black Ops II would have been 8th gen in 2012, which would have been 1 entire year before Xbox One and PS4 even came out to consumers, but release shedules are always busy for Xbox 360 and PS3 and can't bother with learning a new machine that can still get straight ports. People don't like to believe this, because of self fulfilled prophecies that Nintendo will be "the Wii" forever, but Wii is actually the only underpowered console Nintendo ever released.

@Jazzer94
It's not delusional, though. If you think Wii U is underpowered, you just aren't understanding the specs. They are different types of computers, entirely. If you are comparing Wii U to Xbox One and PS4, you are delsuional.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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Jazzer94

SCAR392 wrote:

@Jazzer94
It's not delusional, though. If you think Wii U is underpowered, you just aren't understanding the specs. They are different types of computers, entirely. If you are comparing Wii U to Xbox One and PS4, you are delsuional.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever had the pleasure to read, I don't understand specs yet I took computing for two years which involved programming and my dad has 25 years in the industry several of which working at IBM helping to create IIRC security software and other things for their programs and has been showing and making me games and applications since I was little please explain to me how I don't understand I almost certain I understand more then you. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows the Wii U is weaker, PowerPC is faster and more efficient then x86 yes but even a clown knows that will only go so far against grunt force/power which the PS4 and Xbox One out class the Wii U in. If Wii U was in the same ball park games like NSMBU, SM3DW DKCTF, W101 and Mario Kart 8 plus others should be at native 1080p but they aren't.

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kkslider5552000

Jazzer94 wrote:

If Wii U was in the same ball park games like NSMBU, SM3DW DKCTF, W101 and Mario Kart 8 plus others should be at native 1080p but they aren't.

Yet most Ps4 and Xbox One games have difficulty getting 60 FPS even if they aren't notable showcases for the console's power.

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