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Topic: Are gamers ageist?

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TheMisterManGuy

People wonder why I make topics about kiddiness and children. Well, I often feel that many (Not all) gamers can be ageist towards children. Stereotyping them as nothing more than whinny, insensitive brats who need to be hanged. And while some kids are like that, labelling all children like that I feel is being disrespectful to them. Its one of the reasons children are rarely considered "hardcore gamers". Plus, when it comes to the gaming industry, if it isn't aimed at that 18-34 year old audience, gamers want nothing to do with it. Thus we see once beloved franchises we loved as children either get a god awful gritty makeover, or just dissapear.

Every other medium like movies, music, TV, and especially animation can welcome children, and treat them as simply more fans for the medium. Yet for some reason, gamers feel the need to look down on them, mock them for their age, as well as any game that can even be realated to children (Nintendo games). Its one of the reasons why gamers have a bad reputation in the eyes of the media, we're seen as insecure, selfish, sexist, racist, and ageist overgrown teenagers. And I'm not trying to say all gamers are like that (most gamers I know are anything but), it's just the image journalists like to paint, and the only way to change it is to get more respectful and mature gamers known.

Look, I'm not going to lie and say I enjoy hearing high pitched 8 year olds shouting in an online game. I'm not going to say kids can't be annoying. But to act like kids can't be an equal part of this industry, to say that they don't deserve to be gamers, is a stupid, ageist mentality that needs to stop.

TheMisterManGuy

CrazyOtto

Most people start playing video games as kids, people that don't start gaming as kids don't usually start gaming at all.

CrazyOtto

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Dezzy

Words like ageist, sexist, racist etc etc need to be removed from the english language because there's almost no consensus on what they mean anymore.

Is it ageist to put more focus on teenagers because they buy and play games moreso than anyone else (when you adjust for time spent playing)? Is it sexist to put more focus on boys than girls because they make up the majority in console gaming (especially on sony and microsoft)? Well by some definitions, yes it is. But in a free market capitalist system, it's what you have to do, independent of how fair it is (always try and remember the distinction between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome and notice how the word "fair" is often used blur the difference between 2 very different concepts).
The only other relevant question is whether you could work to change those demographics and create a new balance of the future market. In some cases, yes you probably can, although you risk to lose a lot of money should you falsely predict those potential changes (and therefore most developers will be realists rather than idealists). Similarly to the way Nintendo ultimately did by going after the casual gamers with the Wii, a demographic which had a short term interest and wasn't going to stick around for the long term.
And the fact that young children just don't actually have the money, chances are they'll never be the focus and you'll probably just have to accept it.

Edited on by Dezzy

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CM30

Not really. Are a certain amount of gamers elitist? Perhaps, they don't like people who are less dedicated to games than them/like different types of games. But there's generally not an age, race or gender factor here.

Game developers and publishers on the other hand... they might have issues. How many games do you see targeted to anyone about their early to mid 30s? How many third party companies make decent games for kids? Yeah, they seem to be too narrowly focused on a teenager/young adult demographic.

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Nicolai

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

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TheMisterManGuy

Nicolai wrote:

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

I know kids get treated a bit differently than other age groups, and gamers I know have no problem with kids either. My point is, some vocal gamers out there try to paint gaming as some No-kids allowed zone when that really shouldn't be the case. Everyone deserves a chance to experience the medium, especially casuals and non-gamers. If the industry keeps narrowing its audience too much, then it will never be seen as a medium on par with Film or TV. And us gamers will be seen as whinny, insecure, and selfish.

Nintendo tried appealing to a broad audience with the Wii, but gamers STILL don't want casuals enjoying their medium. That's kind of the whole problem in general. The average gamers want gaming to themselves. If a demographic outside the core gaming audience becomes popular, they'll mock and ridicule it. It's kind of sad to see good casual games like Wii Fit and Nintendogs get made fun of because they don't follow modern gaming conventions. Again, I'm not saying all gamers are like that, nor am I trying to imply that your one of them. But there are a good number out there.

TheMisterManGuy

Dezzy

Nicolai wrote:

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

I hate to grab at a tangent but did you just group religion with race and gender? Are you actually insane? Ah yes, cos of all those people who are naturally born with a religion.

Edited on by Dezzy

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Nicolai

Dezzy wrote:

Nicolai wrote:

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

I hate to grab at a tangent but did you just group religion with race and gender? Are you actually insane? Ah yes, cos of all those people who are naturally born with a religion.

I don't see why not. They're all things that have been historically hated upon for little reason. I was not implying that religion isn't a choice, but it is something that shouldn't affect your education, workplace, or right to live in a negative way.

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Dezzy

Nicolai wrote:

I don't see why not. They're all things that have been historically hated upon for little reason. I was not implying that religion isn't a choice, but it is something that shouldn't affect your education, workplace, or right to live in a negative way.

Well because religions also contain a set of ideas whereas the other labels are just descriptions of a single attribute. If race also had some link to people believing particular things, then race would become a problematic label too. But it doesn't. Race has almost no connection with behaviour, except through geographical correlation. The same doesn't work with religion. For example, If you hear that someone is trying to get contraception banned in the west, you can be almost 100% sure that they're catholic.

Edited on by Dezzy

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CanisWolfred

Religion is a loose set of beliefs that in the modern age are becoming more and more loosely defined than they already were. I know plenty of catholics that still call themselves catholics but are very pro-science and pro-choice. It's a label people may choose to use, regardless of how much it fits their beliefs. Saying "Catholics want contraceptions banned" is no more true than "all black people love fried chicken" (seriously, they're one of the oldest animals breed for food, who doesn't like chicken, regardless of ethnicity?).

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Nicolai

Okay, but my point remains that if someone was a certain religion, and wasn't trying to change anyone or bother anyone, they shouldn't be treated differently because of it. In that way, it is different from age.

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sinalefa

I don't feel that is true. People hate on certain movies, TV shows and music and make fun of their fans and call them immature when they are geared towards kids and tweens. Just look at One Direction, High School Musical, etc. So this hatred applies to all media, not just games. I guess gamers are more vocal about it.

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Nicolai

Yes, that applies to interests of certain people, but if you were to talk about how, if someone looks younger, they're going to be treated differently, that's a different scenario. If I like Pokemon and Captain Toad, and someone calls me immature for it, that's a jab at my interests, not my age. They know I'm a 23-year-old adult, they just think that my interests are abnormal.

Hating on someone's interests is not nearly as critical of an issue as, say, a biased interview process, or real verbal harassment. I hate when people listen to pop music, and my girlfriend can't stand when I play mtg. At the end of the day, they're our interests, and no one is actually keeping us from enjoying them.

All I'm saying is that it is harder not to be biased toward's children, because they are very very different, and there are many ways in which society MUST treat them different.

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Platypus101

TheMisterManGuy wrote:

Nicolai wrote:

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

I know kids get treated a bit differently than other age groups, and gamers I know have no problem with kids either. My point is, some vocal gamers out there try to paint gaming as some No-kids allowed zone when that really shouldn't be the case. Everyone deserves a chance to experience the medium, especially casuals and non-gamers. If the industry keeps narrowing its audience too much, then it will never be seen as a medium on par with Film or TV. And us gamers will be seen as whinny, insecure, and selfish.

Nintendo tried appealing to a broad audience with the Wii, but gamers STILL don't want casuals enjoying their medium. That's kind of the whole problem in general. The average gamers want gaming to themselves. If a demographic outside the core gaming audience becomes popular, they'll mock and ridicule it. It's kind of sad to see good casual games like Wii Fit and Nintendogs get made fun of because they don't follow modern gaming conventions. Again, I'm not saying all gamers are like that, nor am I trying to imply that your one of them. But there are a good number out there.

Seriously? Are we going listen/follow to the vocal minority? The people that behave in said manner are themselves immature. People forget that when they did a poll, a good percentage of gamers were female (yes, even on PS/XB1) not 10% or less... More like 1 in 4 (perhaps 3, we will never know, because the vocal minority has threatened and coerced them to be silent/hide identity). Fact is, I work in a job where more women (not girls) have an XB1 or PS4 than "guys". These same "guys" I mention, are the same jerks that believe kids shouldn't play video games (I also blame game developers, as they have taken the " Mature" route in design, thus making people believe that gaming is only for adults.) we should all just play games, and encourage others to do so... Gaming for everyone!

Platypus101

SkywardLink98

CanisWolfred wrote:

seriously, they're one of the oldest animals breed for food, who doesn't like chicken, regardless of ethnicity?

I love all meat <3

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WiiWareWave

Platypus101 wrote:

TheMisterManGuy wrote:

Nicolai wrote:

There's nothing wrong with treating people differently based on their age, because just about everyone on this earth gets to go through each age-group. There are very good reasons for it too. It's not like race, gender, sexual preference, or religion, where it really doesn't matter in the first place.

Insulting them and belittling them? No one I know does that. If they do, they're probably still a little immature themselves; it sound more like something older kids might have done when I was in elementary school. I've had my butt handed to me by children 10 years younger in Super Smash, so it's definitely not a skill-barrier thing.

I know kids get treated a bit differently than other age groups, and gamers I know have no problem with kids either. My point is, some vocal gamers out there try to paint gaming as some No-kids allowed zone when that really shouldn't be the case. Everyone deserves a chance to experience the medium, especially casuals and non-gamers. If the industry keeps narrowing its audience too much, then it will never be seen as a medium on par with Film or TV. And us gamers will be seen as whinny, insecure, and selfish.

Nintendo tried appealing to a broad audience with the Wii, but gamers STILL don't want casuals enjoying their medium. That's kind of the whole problem in general. The average gamers want gaming to themselves. If a demographic outside the core gaming audience becomes popular, they'll mock and ridicule it. It's kind of sad to see good casual games like Wii Fit and Nintendogs get made fun of because they don't follow modern gaming conventions. Again, I'm not saying all gamers are like that, nor am I trying to imply that your one of them. But there are a good number out there.

Seriously? Are we going listen/follow to the vocal minority? The people that behave in said manner are themselves immature. People forget that when they did a poll, a good percentage of gamers were female (yes, even on PS/XB1) not 10% or less... More like 1 in 4 (perhaps 3, we will never know, because the vocal minority has threatened and coerced them to be silent/hide identity). Fact is, I work in a job where more women (not girls) have an XB1 or PS4 than "guys". These same "guys" I mention, are the same jerks that believe kids shouldn't play video games (I also blame game developers, as they have taken the " Mature" route in design, thus making people believe that gaming is only for adults.) we should all just play games, and encourage others to do so... Gaming for everyone!

Absolutely true, in fact on the website I run of the 200 members who have their gender listed in their profile nearly half are female! The vocal minority really hurt the gaming community and the industry as a whole and more should be done to prevent sexism in the various video game communities out there. Luckily the mods here at NL don't put up with sexist comments, but other sites like Gamespot and IGN don't do anything about most of the offensive posts in their comments and forums.

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LzWinky

Old people are far worse. Just look at ogo79

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Dave24

The shocking truth.
It's not even gaming related. That's how society/humanity works. If you would at least once leave home, you would know, instead of making stupid topics. Maybe someday you will know, when finally your parents will kick your lazy butt out of home and go get a job
/thread

Dave24

KO-Cub

The only problem I have with younger gamers is when I see a 10 or 12 year old buy a game like Gears of War of something that's just way violent for them. Go play Zelda, Sonic, Little Big Planet. Something! Not Violent video games that prone you to yell through the mic. :[

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CanisWolfred

^Hyperactive kids acting hyper and finding ways to annoy others for attention is kinda just what those kind of kids do. Heck, there are adults that'll do that, too...the games wouldn't change that, it's just one method for them to "express themselves" (no matter how much we wish they wouldn't).

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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