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Topic: Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of DANA

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SKTTR

I heard people talking about different games having a better quality in handheld mode, but from my experience they must have really bad, cheap or old tv sets or bad tv settings for that to happen.

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NiaBladerunner

How do you guys feel about Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of DANA, say in comparison to somebody who really liked Ys Book I and II on WII VC? Strong entry for someone who likes JRPGS?

NiaBladerunner

EvilLucario

@NiaBladerunner This is my first Ys game, but as a newcomer I've had a blast. I've beaten the game (almost) 100% on Hard difficulty within 43 hours, and if you even slightly like RPGs and/or action games, this game is for you.

The story and characters are above-average JRPG stuff which didn't blow me away (but still solid), but the gameplay is a ton of fun. At multiple times I was feeling like I was playing a lesser version of Bayonetta though, but it's not trying to be Bayonetta so I can let it slide. Regardless, combat is fast and fun, if a bit repetitive and button-mashy at times.

Highly recommend.

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darkfenrir

I almost finished the true ending of the game... arceusdamn, that twist is amazing though!

Really didn't see that, and I really enjoy what we'll do in the end

Edit: yeah, saw the ending and that's definitely something I really like :'))

Edited on by Joeynator3000

darkfenrir

Switch Friend Code: SW-0242-3593-1338

NEStalgia

@EvilLucario @Ralizah I suspect a lot of difference people don't realize with "docked" versus "undocked" is that their TV's or receivers have video processors that are actually heavily processing the image and thus it looks "so good" in docked, not due to Switch looking that much better, but due to power eating, heat spewing video processing hardware they have connected between the machine and the output (same goes for their disc players, streaming devices, etc. etc.) Like EvilLucario I play on a monitor, and indeed, even XC2 didn't look terribly great to me....I don't know that it looks "worse" than in handheld, but it doesn't look so great as you and some others portray it....it looked kind of outdated and similar to how it looks on handheld to me. The difference? No video processor in the receiver/TV. The monitor displays merely the pixels the machine feeds to it as long as it's the native resolution (and uses a cruddy scaler if it's not.) So us monitor users are just using the native Switch output. Some/many TV users are using video processors that may be costing anywhere from a $50 Faroudja processor in an average TV to $2500 Lumagen somewhere in their home theater setup.

I used that trick with the PS3 to process the blurred mess it produced into something sharpened and tolerable with the Anchor processor in my AVR. it worked fairly ok.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia 80% or so of the time I spent playing Xenoblade 2 docked was on a basic 1080p computer monitor in my bedroom, so... no. Once in a great while, when there's a ton of stuff going on in the game, the resolution will noticeably dip a bit, but even then it still looks a bit sharper than it ever does in handheld mode.

Maybe you're just really insensitive to resolution changes? It's not like there's any debate about how sharp the resolution drops in handheld mode are. If you haven't watched the DigitalFoundry video on it, I highly recommend it. The worst dips put it within spitting distance of a 3DS game. In general, the game's handheld resolution seems to be lower than what you would find in a native-res Playstation Vita game.

I don't really notice the difference between 720p and 1080p most of the time, but the dip from 720p to 368p is pretty drastic, even when you account for the smaller size of the tablet's screen. Thankfully, most of the time, the game doesn't look quite that bad.

UI elements are native-res in handheld mode, though, which means they look really, really sharp, especially next to the often blurry visuals.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

NEStalgia

@Ralizah I don't know, I loaded it on the big screen around Uraya and just thought.....meh....(meh meh meeehh....Is not much better looking. Is not Switchy-Switch supposed to be more better looking?)

On the contrary, I'm super sensitive for resolution and edge detail issues. It's one reason I've been rebuying most of my PS4 collection on X1X....the 4K super-sampling fixes the annoying edge artifacts that drive me crazy even on the Pro, and slight blur drives me crazy. But on Xenoblade handheld...I'm just not really feeling it? Maybe it's because the game is technically kind of ugly even on the big screen so it's hard to notice it getting worse? (That's not a Switch failing, it's a Monolith trait...look modestly ok, perform like you're running on CryEngine...seems to be common for JRPG makers.) It's not ugly, the art is beautiful, the engine is just kind of crude. And i've seen some stark drops during big battle sequences when unleashing an IV special or combo, but they don't bother me even slightly since the drop to blur happens during fast action transition when I care only about gauges and QTE rings and haven't time to look at gfx anyway. "Native res Vita game" may not mean much...how many retail games ran at native res? FFX looked "off" on Vita....it was pretty enough but something, as with most Vita games, about the gfx bothered me the whole time. I can see Vita-like-similarities at times in XC2, but overall it looks much much cleaner. I don't doubt it could have done prettier, but at a huge cost of battery and play time. I do think the result is from some constraints put on it not just due to performance capability but due to power management. I'd be curious to see a comparison of Ys, Shining Res., and XC2 and their battery drain.

UI I have to say is one huuge failing of Switch by nature....HD UIs aren't meant for 6" screens, and too many games including Ys and Shining have too tiny text for text heavy games. XC2 got that right, or more right than most games. I want a 10" Switch to fix that

Navigation problems with the stupid radar nav points, bland quests, and trademark Xenoblade difficulty spikes for bosses (curse you you stupid machine on the back of the titan in the dmz...still stuck on that thing.) annoy me far more than the resolution

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia Yeah, see, I'm the opposite. I care very little about how a game performs in general as long as it's good enough. Especially with regard to resolution. Every home console game could run at 720p for all I care. Xenoblade 2 in handheld mode is one of the very few times I've felt disappointed with a game's performance.

Given you mentioned Uraya, I thought I'd post one of the comparison screenshots I took between docked and handheld mode. It's... pretty drastic.

It's funny how good Xenoblade 2 is about making the UI easy to parse in handheld mode when you consider that it was hard to read stuff in XCX even on a large HDTV.

Ralizah

NEStalgia

@Ralizah The main differences seem to be resolution, texture filtering, AA, but of course at 6" the PPI is a lot denser than on the monitor we're looking at them on, so it doesn't stand out as much. Sure at the same size it's stark, but it's not the same PPI normally. Plus, be real, when playing that screenshot did you ever look at the world, or spend the whole time looking up at the pink diamond and watching "1274" change while occasionally glancing from the periphery to see if there's motion on the blob-shaped field?

But it's funny that you're seldom bothered by game performance, but XC2 bugs you, and I'm easily bothered by edge artifacts and slight smudge blur, and XC2 looks fine to me (PS3 looked like somebody slathered the screen in Vaseline. Every single game.) All that said the sharpness of Ys and Shining are appealing. The tiny tiny text is not.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia The super-noticeable sharpening filter doesn't really help either. Anyway, the full effect is that, at the worst of times, it looks like a 3DS game blown up on a huge display. At the best of times, it looks like the difference between low and high settings on your average PC game: noticeable, but not the end of the world.

I generally spend a lot of time appreciating Xenoblade Chronicles 2's wonderful environments and art design, so the massive downgrade in terms of texture quality and whatnot in the environments, combined with the low resolution, is pretty jarring for me. Which is why I took to using handheld mode exclusively for affinity grinding, merc mission running, and other activities that don't really require me to pay too much attention to what I'm doing.

The smaller screen helps somewhat, but the image is still extremely fuzzy on the tablet, especially if you're holding it close to your face.

With games like DOOM and Wolfenstein 2, where it's amazing they're even running on the platform as well as they are to begin with, it's hard to complain about the low-res dips. But it's shameful for an exclusive to perform this way. It's pretty clear to me that the game was designed around the Switch's docked specs, and that the handheld mode was more of an afterthought for the developers than anything.

It's an amazing game. My favorite exclusive on the system so far. But I really hope this isn't indicative of how Monolith Soft is going to design Switch games going forward.

I didn't have a problem reading the text in the Shining demo, or in Ys VIII thus far, to be perfectly honest.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

NEStalgia

@Ralizah Well to be fair I'm not spending too much time enjoying the scenery when playing any game handheld....usually it's about diving into gameplay, so only if it looks genuinely bad does it affect me too much. Not that I don't want it to look good, but I'm not likely to just spin the camera in awe and majesty of the world at 6"....it just can't have the impact it will on a big screen, so I'm likely to focus on actual play and objectives much more than eye candy when handheld. Especially in such a huge RPG where there's ever so much to take care of (and I know I have 2...soon to be 3...soon to be 5 others in my backlog... ) . A focused action game I might be more prone to gawk for a while. That may be the difference (I'd gawk if playing docked, but not otherwise.)

Personally I still think it's just Monolith's inefficient engine to blame. It ran dog slow on WiiU. It's got to be the original Wii codebase heavily modified, but not optimally. But I also think the handheld mode seriously capped performance beyond what it could have been to conserve battery. Notice the case hardly even heats up when handheld? I'ts not maxing out the system and failing. It's intentionally not using the full ability of the system when handheld. Now play Wolfenstein, or even Splatoon. I think they're intentionally holding back graphics to buy more playtime. Not a bad plan for an RPG, but an option would have been better. I still want to see battery life comparisons to Ys and Shining that seem too be running full-bore. I mean the engine was running on 3DS in it's old state....it should be scalable enough. But...Monolith soft has never had a really smooth running engine. Expecting smooth Monolith performance is like expecting stable Bethesda games.

I can read the text in Shining and Ys (haven't opened the shrinkwrap yet, but I used the eshop screenshots)....but it's small enough to indicate one serious hurdle a 6" screen has with games meant for HD. I'm super near sighted so tiny text is fine for me. But for anyone far sighted, reading most games handheld has to be close to impossible.

NEStalgia

Dezzy

@NiaBladerunner

It's the best Ys game by far imo.
Although I haven't finished it yet and I haven't finished many others either. I've tried lots of them though.

Converted from Sony to Nintendo during 7th gen and never looked back.

RR529

The resolution and (less commonly) framerate do take hits more often once you get past Gendarme in handheld mode. I think because some of the later environments are more open maybe, but it's definitely not native res in some of the later areas (it kind of looks as good as XC2's best portable performance in these areas).

The two areas where the resolution and framerate were at there worst were the Hunt in the cave where you fought that big spider, simply because of the constant flood of enemies, and the first room in the third segment of that dungeon you have to keep returning to in Dana's era. It's very large and full of enemies. At least so far. I haven't beaten it yet so there could be more areas like this.

Blog: https://rrblogweb.wordpress.com/

Currently Playing: Hitman GO

Recently Beat: Castle of Illussion: Starring Mickey Mouse, Lara Croft GO, Front Mission Evolved

EvilLucario

Just finished a personal review of the game. 6 pages long according to Google Docs at 3185 words lol. Jesus.

Long story short (the full review is on my Twitter), the game is real good. Story's fine, gameplay is fun if a bit weird in some aspects, and presentation is alright. Get this game if you like RPGs and/or action games.

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EvilLucario

This track from the game is so good. One of the best field themes I can think of.

As a whole OST is fine, but wow this track is way too good. I love it.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

I run a YouTube/Twitch channel for fun. Check me out if you want to!

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NiaBladerunner

@EvilLucario @Dezzy Thanks for your replies. Sounds like yet another solid JRPG to add to my collection. Will likely be grabbing in couple weeks time. Xenoblade 2 taking up all my limited gaming time.

NiaBladerunner

Trajan

@NEStalgia I think XC2 looks great docked and it will age well.

Ys 8 however is very jarring due to how sharp they made it.

"Although PS2 was a sales success because it had a DVD player function, it troubled me that we had moved to a hardware where the sole function wasn’t playing games,” - Satoru Iwata

MONOLITHSOFT and Rareware (SNES-GC) fanboy

Trajan

So I got the normal ending. How many approval points do I need for the best ending? 150 like Vita or 200 like PS4?

"Although PS2 was a sales success because it had a DVD player function, it troubled me that we had moved to a hardware where the sole function wasn’t playing games,” - Satoru Iwata

MONOLITHSOFT and Rareware (SNES-GC) fanboy

EvilLucario

I think I might have to take back some of my initial comments about the music. I'm gonna give it another listen from beginning to end, and I'm liking it more now. Battle themes like Crimson Fighter and such are real good.

@Trajan I think 200. I have like 201 approval (I think, don't remember).

Edited on by EvilLucario

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

I run a YouTube/Twitch channel for fun. Check me out if you want to!

Switch Friend Code: SW-4023-8648-9313 | 3DS Friend Code: 2105-8876-1993 | Nintendo Network ID: ThatTrueEvil | Twitter:

RR529

Is there anyway you can check your overall approval rating before completing the game? I can see how many stars I have for each individual character, but I have no idea how many points that translates to.

Anyhow, I just beat Oceanus, which was pretty epic! Think I'm getting close to the end, but I know there's still some left based on all the areas I can't access yet.

Blog: https://rrblogweb.wordpress.com/

Currently Playing: Hitman GO

Recently Beat: Castle of Illussion: Starring Mickey Mouse, Lara Croft GO, Front Mission Evolved

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