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Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Combat - is it really that bad?

Posts 1 to 20 of 38

Ryzaerian

Generally a fan of RPG’s, both Japanese and Western, and was seriously considering picking this up. But.

Saw a YouTube review by BeatEmUps where he describes the combat as very bland, consisting mostly of autoattacking.

Furthermore, he describes taking on a large group of higher-level enemies, setting the controller down and walking away (as a test), and coming back to an autoattack victory.

If accurate, this sounds like a casual, mobile idle RPG rather than a AAA title.

What’s the word? Is it really like that? That would definitely cause me to reconsider the purchase.

Edited on by Ryzaerian

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Ryu_Niiyama

LOL dude must be playing on easy. I mean if you are overleveled sure you can walk away but same or lower...if you want to die put down the controller. Yes the system involves auto attacks...it also involves attack chains, elemental resistance/weaknesses, directional weakness/buffs, accessory buffs, food buffs not to mention the elemental chain attack system.

There are like 10 tutorials in the game on the fighting system. including one that happens late game...I don't know what game that video you were talking about was talking about but it wasn't xenoblade 2.

Actually the fighting system is sorta in the "easy to pickup and stumble to a win, but you have to master it to really see it shine." camp.

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darkfenrir

Ehhh, to be honest (this whole next section is my opinion):

1. The Auto-attack actually helps in the count that you won't spam 'Attack' button.

2. You are going to use what is filled from the Auto Attack to the skills, which will lead to filling up other gauges (darn it, 2 months not picking up XC2 and I forgot nearly all of the terminologies), but it's not only "auto attack" and leave. To be honest I only dare to auto attack and leave only on WEAKER enemies. Like enemies 10 levels or so below.

3. The game mechanics get deeper and harder the more you went forward in the story.

4. Had been on situations where attacking higher level enemies end up with them demolishing me, and that's not even me leaving my Switch alone!

5. I have played a ton of mobile games for work right now and if there's one of them that is as deep as XC2, please tell me just so I can review and recommend it lol.

darkfenrir

EvilLucario

BeatEmUps barely played the game lol. His opinion barely matters in the grand scheme of things. Combat is way more in-depth than that. Hell, a good majority of people PRAISE the combat, and the only people that complain are those who miss the character diversity from Xenoblade 1 or the character customization from Xenoblade X, or flat-out don't understand combat and sit there complaining "battles take forever", when in reality they don't, even before combat really opens up in mid Chapter 3.

If you were able to AFK battles even after a quarter in the game then sure, it's bad, but it's not.

And while by endgame you can solo superbosses without touching anything with a certain character, that requires you to grind hard for hours AND be good at Tiger Tiger.

Edited on by EvilLucario

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Alber-san

@Ryzaerian
Battling evolves along with the story in XC2. That is why both BeatEmUps and Yorumi find it simple and boring. If you play enough time it will become much more complex.

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FX102A

Yeah, as already said multiple times the only way to win auto attacking is if fighting far weaker enemies. Otherwise boade switching, additional healing and combos and chain attacks are necessary to ensure victory; plus defeating specific enemies in groups.

Over 100hrs in though i think I am approacing the end game. Well, I did reach level 100 in the original game and only around lvl 65 here so I wonder if there is more?

FX102A

SKTTR

My biggest gripes were also with the slow combat and pitiful characters (and the rushed release).
The first 30 hours were a slog. I put the game away for 2 months, but picked it back up after the third update. It took me another 20 hours to finally see the games brilliance. Everything that was an annoyance in the beginning somehow got resolved through the games several additional gameplay mechanics and story explanations. The next 180 hours were pure addiction. The combat is fast and well-designed. The characters and story are great. The sidequests and item management is much better than in the other 2 Xenoblade games. Now it's one of my favourite games. Still not on the same level as Xenoblade X, but close.

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Ryzaerian

I’ve read all of your responses in detail, so thank you for that.

I ultimately decided to take the plunge and bought the game, based mostly on the repeating notion that combat does improve later in the progression. BeatEmUps did note that he was only around 15 hours in.

And, as I believe that no good deed should go unpunished, I wrote down the names of the game’s supporters, making it easy to file lawsuits in case I don’t like it. xD

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SlimFreakinFast

@Ryzaerian In all honesty, after playing the first Xenoblade, it makes sense and is kinda easy to master. I've put at least 100 hours into the game and can honestly say that the combat, while challenging and confusing at first, gets a lot easier the more you play.

After a while you'll learn the ins-and-outs like BREAK > TOPPLE > LAUNCH > SMASH, start building your party to better suit those Blade combo trees, rack up TONS of elemental bursts, and grinding enemies for Overdrives. "Easy-peasy".

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EvilLucario

I still don't understand the slow combat complaint at the beginning of the game to mid Chapter 3. I started a second playthrough with no Season Pass items, and I've been tearing through everything extremely easily. With Arts recharge pouch items that are literally available right from Chapter 1 and the pouch expansion kit near the end of Chapter 2, you get the ability to spam a lot of Arts, especially powerful ones like Rolling Smash. And combat early on takes as long time as really any other fight in Xenoblade 1 and X.

Sure, combat gets even better after Chapter 3, but even before that point combat is decently fast, then afterwards it becomes ludicrous.

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Late

XC2 has its problems but the combat is not one of them. I watch Wood's videos from time to time and I knew he wouldn't like XC2 even before his video came out. He's not really that much into RPGs.

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Ryzaerian

Four hours in.

I feel like BeatEmUps and others didn’t do this game justice. I find it hard to believe that anyone who likes JRPG’s would dislike this game. I’m really digging it so far.

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EvilLucario

@Ryzaerian Good luck my dude. If you got questions, ask in the Xenoblade 2 thread here or the Xenoblade subreddit. I check those daily so I can answer pretty much every question you have about the game.

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Ryzaerian

I’m 5 hours into the game. I’m already timing my arts to get the damage bonus from synchronizing with the third attack in a combo, building and combining specials, executing specials in a way to get the highest damage multiplier, timing my healing abilities, paying attention to elemental weaknesses and affinities, stepping out of aoe attacks etc..

Anyone who tells you the combat is “button-mashing” or “autoattacking” has either never played the game, is too dense to understand the combat system, or is straight-up lying to you.

Edited on by Ryzaerian

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Ryzaerian

Yorumi wrote:

I really take offense to this. Timing a button press to an auto-attack is not something I'm "too dense to understand." It doesn't really change things though. You're still just using the skill on cooldown with little thought beyond when you actually press the button.

@Yorumi It wasn’t meant as a comment directed specifically at you, though I can see how I may have made it appear that way.

Look, bottom line is, you just don’t like the game. You’re oversimplifying the combat. You’re criticizing the story and cutscenes. For whatever reason(s), it’s just not your thing.

I respect your right to your opinion, and wholeheartedly disagree with its content.

Edited on by Ryzaerian

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Alber-san

@Yorumi
I like the game because I found the story engaging, loved the characters, liked the combat and its evolution throughout the story, liked exploring the various titans and their different environments, loved the music, etc. So yeah, you don't get answers because you dislike what many people like about this game. I generally don't like platformers because I find them boring, does that mean other people can't like them? Of course they can.

Edited on by Alber-san

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EvilLucario

@Yorumi And pretty much every single JRPG, no matter how complex, cannot escape the problem of "button mashing early on". Xenogears. Final Fantasy. Pokemon. Tales. Even Trails (though I haven't played it yet, it was on my radar after hearing good things). That's something you'll accept with pretty much every JRPG, the beginning is always super easy and can be button mashed away.

Simplifying combat to just be a "button masher" while complaining about HP sponges also undersells not just XC2, but any other RPG that employs their own complex combat system. Even before Chapter 3, you have access to Fusion Combos, and the Blades you equip have their own passive boosts like increased side damage or increased damage if attacking from the back (while dealing with enemies that have potent attacks they only use if someone's at the back) or even just increased damage after you use a Special. Then there's slight give or takes with holding off on using Arts because you're in an autoattack chain or using it immediately for that HP potion or whatever, but they all add up. You get Topple in Chapter 2 with Tora, but even if you don't get to Topple, finishing a Blade Combo on something inflicted in Break does massive damage that can shave off HP extremely quickly. Aux Cores and accessories that can change up your playstyle to better incorporate Driver Combos or just Blade Combos in general can further mix up how you approach stuff.

And that's just the beginning, where you had to time them to even get one off. But then you get more and more Blades/accessories and party setups to mold into what you want, prioritizing Driver Combos, or Blade Combos, or try to go for Fusion Combos better. In theory it sounds like a little, but in practice there is quite a bit to keep an eye out for.

Yeah, you COULD just mindlessly wail away at enemies early on, but then you aren't really taking advantage of the combat system and that again applies to every single RPG. Things start heated in Xenogears and you don't take advantage of Deathblows? Just spam items and you can brute force through battles. Something in XC2 annoys you with taunt, ruining Blade Combos? Tank it and move on. Can list way more examples here.

Now I enjoy XCX more than XC1 or XC2 in terms of combat, but a lot of the fun came from mix-matching Overdrive and Skells, the real meat of the game that you also don't unlock until 20-30 hours into the game, and that game is also MASSIVE with 200 hours worth of content to do. A few argue that the real game doesn't begin until after the main story, even. Half of the stuff like Soul Voices and melee/ranged combos becomes irrelevant once you built an infinite Overdrive setup, though you still maintained quick thinking to keep your Overdrive count high.

That said, I'm probably in the minority that doesn't mind slow starts in pretty much any RPG. But there is depth early-game, even before the parts where combat opens up.

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EvilLucario

@Yorumi Then that just comes down to not liking JRPGs. You're going to do the same thing over and over for a lot of the adventure, like it or not. I can sum up pretty much every JRPG combat system in one sentence: the attack heal buff loop. That's an oversimplification of JRPGs that fits everything into one cramped box and isn't fair to any of them.

The thing that eases that is player progression in new party members, new gear that change your playstyle, and more. If that's not enough to change your mind, JRPGs probably aren't your cup of tea, judging from your comment about JRPG combat.

Even then though, I'd argue that XC2 combat gets even better after Chapter 3, which is around 10-15 hours of gameplay. For a game that's really long, that isn't so bad.

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Heavyarms55

@Ryzaerian Xenoblade 2 is an outstanding JRPG and anyone who says otherwise almost almost either did not finish the game or doesn't like story driven games. In the very beginning of the game the combat is very simple because they do not dump it all on you at once. If they did it would be overwhelming and many players would quit for that reason. In the mid and late portion of the game, a lot of strategy goes into the combat choosing viable combinations of characters and weapons and effects. Some of the side quests and optional bosses are brutally difficult even with a level advantage if you do not understand the game mechanics properly (the spike effect being particularly dangerous).

I would not describe the game as hard, but it is most certainly not a game you can play by mashing buttons.

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Heavyarms55

@Yorumi If you quit that early in, it is no wonder you think so poorly of the story. At 25 hours you would be, at most, a third of the way into the game and have not yet even unlocked all the the many awesome abilities that come later, or seen many of the best parts of the story. And if you were a third of the way through the story at such a low play time, you'd have like skipped over a LOT of side quests, unlocked very few rare blades, and overall missed out on most of the game.

Also if you think 20-25 hours is a lot of play time in an RPG, I imagine you haven't played many real RPGs. Phone games and 12 dollar eshop indie titles just don't count.

Edited on by Heavyarms55

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