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Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles 2

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Grumblevolcano

@Ralizah Lineup perception probably. Getting that balance between new games and Wii U ports is important for year 1 so you bring in both Wii U owners and those who didn't own a Wii U. For year 2 it doesn't matter that much because the Wii U owners are already there.

Grumblevolcano

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Ralizah

EvilLucario wrote:

I mentioned this in another thread here, but for my expanded thoughts: I think they've already foreshadowed that in Chapter 7 that they can come back back when Malos talked about how Pyra could be able to survive for a short while without their Core Crystal, transferring her half back to Rex. I don't think it's not entirely explained that they could come back afterwards, but once that happened when she transferred her Core Crystal half to Rex I was thinking "they're not gonna kill her". But for bigger reasons I think the post-ending scene makes sense are a few things: it still develops Rex as a character and it complements the optimistic and hopeful theme the game goes with. I'll explain the first: throughout the game he makes dumb decisions because he doesn't want to stand by idly while other people are in danger, eg Vandham and how he messed up there. In Chapter 7, Addam calls out Rex, saying he's greedy in wanting to protect everyone and telling him there's a limit to how much someone can do so. So during that scene, he decides to do the complete opposite of what pre-Chapter 7 Rex would have done and it turns out everything would have worked out. If it didn't work out, it would have been casted doubts on Rex thinking if he would have done the right thing, where he tries to avenge Vandham's death but fails, and he lets Pyra go but stays dead, so by association he fails too. For the second reason: the villains all have nihilism as their main motivations. Amalthus wants the whole world destroyed while he claims the Architect's power, Torna want to kill the Architect and humanity because of being wronged, etc. Even Klaus felt the nihilist thoughts when he resigned himself to letting Amalthus take the Aegis Cores, only to be reversed after seeing Rex and Pyra. And in Chapter 7, the real reason why Pyra/Mythra want to go to Elysium is to die, but that changes after the chapter. Conquering nihilism is a running theme of the game, and killing them off would go against it in my opinion.

Now granted, you don't have to like the ending anyway and you can make the argument that keeping them dead would have left the emotional impact and leave Rex as a different character, and it is a legit argument. Some people have written their takes on what would have happened if they stayed dead, and it's all perfectly reasonable. But I personally don't think it would work in the context of this particular game.

I hope I worded that in a concise way. I get carried away when talking about this series. (I'm a self-proclaimed shill, it's in the signature)

Interesting thoughts.

I wouldn't interpret Pyra dying as Rex "failing," though. And, honestly, based on the emotional logic of the scene when they last part in the space station, he wouldn't have, either. Accepting Pyra's death would have been a fitting capper to the theme of Rex being unwilling to accept that he can't always save the people around him. Moreover, the narrative logic of the group interacting with Rex was pretty clear to me: knowing when to let go and accept that some things in life aren't in your control is a big part of what it means to be an adult. The credits reveal undermines this crucial end to Rex's development, in my opinion. It's pretty common for "coming of age" fiction to end in a bittersweet manner as the protagonists learn to take the good with the bad and, in their mature state, coming to terms with the fact that life isn't always fair. Moreover, if Pyra had this hidden gambit to have her cake and eat it too, I don't see what the point was in Pyra's final space station scenes, where she talks about being glad that she got to know Rex. That's not the behavior of someone set on beating the odds and reuniting with her friends. Ending it with a Disney-ish happy ending betrays pretty much everything that came before, even if you could argue that it didn't come out of absolutely nowhere.

Regarding the villains: Amalthus' "nihilism" definitely didn't come out of nowhere, but seemed to be rooted in a formative experience early on when his mother is murdered for unknown reasons, and he proceeds to kill the murderer. This, alongside things like a soldier he helped at some point in the past trying to murder a woman and her child, seems to have convinced him of the inherent evilness of humanity. His inability to let go of rage and loathing was transferred to Malos, and the game seems to establish that Malos' will to end everything is inseperable from Amalthus' own troubled development. Unfortunately, the game doesn't really do enough, in my opinion, to connect the emotional logic of Amalthus' development and make him anything more than yet another evil pope character (his reveal as a straight-up villain was disappointing, as, despite foreshadowing of his evil nature, the game also went out of its way to establish his humanity in some respects, and I thought we were going to get a morally complex character out of him. Not so much.

Speaking of motives, I was sad to see that the theme of Torna struggling against the Architect because blades, unlike humans, are unable to die and transfer on their culture like humans, effectively removing their ability to collectively grow as a people, get dropped like a hot rock after it was introduced in Chapter... 7? Somewhere around there. Anyway, it was cool, uncomfortable, Blade Runner-esque idea that ultimately never went anywhere.

Regarding Pyra's "intent to die" that changes as she conquers meaninglessness and finds a reason to live: wouldn't that make it all the more poignant that, when she ends up dying anyway, it's to affirm life instead of give in to despair?

Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. You articulated yourself extremely well, though, and your reading of the ending might very well be spot on. It just doesn't feel right to me, though. Also, [spoiler]why were Pyra and Mythra separate people at the end? Before that, we only saw them as separate individuals when Klaus was exploring their inner fears and doubts. Mythra says pretty early on in the game that Pyra is "a self I constructed," which would point to it being less a separate entity and more a different side of her personality. This is reinforced when Pyra achieves her ultimate form, where her personality takes on shades of both Pyra and Mythra's personalities.

That all could have been expressed much more elegantly, but I typed it in a hurry to get all my thoughts out there.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

meleebrawler

@Ralizah Rex DID accept Pneuma's death though. And if we're going with the angle that he needed to learn that he alone cannot please/protect everyone, it isn't undermined by Pyra and Mythra's resurrection, because that too was completely out of his control. He let them leave, and come back, by their own volition. Also, Pyra and Mythra becoming separate seems to somewhat of a self-parody of the recurring "semi-mechanical girl with hidden split personality" trope that was present in the recent Xeno titles (KOS-MOS and Mary, Fiora and Meyneth). How about instead of the hidden personality being a disembodied super presence, it's an actual other person? They obviously do share traits and interests, as Rex himself notes, but the way they interact with each other (on top of already seeing them separate on several occasions, even if only in spirit) makes it so there's little surprise when they do ultimately separate completely.

I believe the developer was up front in stating the story would focus entirely on Rex's perspective of the people and world around him, so it's only natural that we players only get the bare minimum of necessary info from flashbacks and the like to understand that no one is a mindless villain. This isn't their story. Would it have been nice to see more of them and flesh them out more? Maybe. But chances are it would have bogged down the pace of the story too much.

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EvilLucario

@Ralizah
You can make the argument that the bittersweet tone works out for the end and that's not a wrong way of looking at it. But I think that with the more optimistic tone the game is going for, it wouldn't work as well. If we had a tone like Xenoblade 1 or X then I would probably say that it could be the reverse of what it was currently, but as it stands I think the way it went was fitting. But in terms of the "if she knew she could come back why didn't she skip all the drama" thing, this probably goes beyond what the game explicitly tells us but judging from her previous statements about losing memories and keeping them, I think she knew she could come back, but didn't know if she could remember everything anyway, since Blades don't retain their memories when they reawaken. So perhaps she doesn't want to instill any false hope in some way, but idk.

Agreed about villains, this is where the rushed development comes in. Amalthus has all the points for a great villain but they rushed him out.

Well, it was introduced in Chapter 5, and while it did wane in prominence afterwards, I think they still bring it up in Chapter 9 when Rex and Jin fight for the last time, where Rex corrects Jin on why he thinks Blades exist - to guide humanity.

As for Pyra's intent to die, you could write it like that (and you could argue it was already as is) and I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Why Pyra and Mythra are separate people, your guess are as good as mine. I can't think of any good reasons to think so. But then I look at Ursula and Beary and I just shrug it off. Probably not a satisfactory answer, but hey.

And yeah, because of all that the ending gets a lot of reactions, both good and bad. But it makes it extremely interesting to discuss since there's evidence to point to for both and for going any way

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Grumblevolcano

The soundtrack is getting a digital release worldwide on May 23rd!

Grumblevolcano

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Ralizah

@Grumblevolcano Purchasable where? I heard it was only getting a Japanese release.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

Grumblevolcano

@Ralizah The normal digital music services where you can buy music like iTunes, Google Play, Amazon, etc.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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Ralizah

@Grumblevolcano Nice. I'll probably buy it on Google Play. The game has a fantastic OST.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

EvilLucario

I need to buy it too. Oh dear, my wallet...

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iLikeUrAttitude

I just need Akhos to get every blade...

Good... good
Now play Dragon Quest

EvilLucario

I've already gotten S+ on every Rare Blade, so currently I'm just busy maxing out every single weapon class for every single character. Including awful stuff like bitballs on Zeke and Shield Hammers on Nia. Already finished Rex and Zeke, just need to finish Nia and Morag's final 3 weapons from the NG+ Blades, which by the way require WAY TOO MUCH WP. I don't like how they require so much more WP than the other weapons. That said, farming Tyrannotitan Kurodil gives me like 3k WP per kill and I can kill him within 1-2 minutes on Easy Mode, so that's good.

...at least, I would be doing that if I didn't have exams.

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iLikeUrAttitude

@EvilLucario Did you already max out every characters affinity chart? I did everyone except Rex.

Good... good
Now play Dragon Quest

EvilLucario

@iLikeUrAttitude Yeah, everyone's normal skill chart and their hidden skill charts too. Took some time but I eventually got my free Overdrive Protocols.

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EvilLucario

So I've been shilling for the game non-stop among my circle of friends. One of them finally picked up the game with the DLC a few days ago, and he's been updating me on his progress so far.

This morning, he asks me "how rare is KOS-MOS?"

He got her from a Common Core Crystal.

Man, my salt levels. I got her as my last Blade at 120 hours.

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EvilLucario

I'm disappointed it's not an epilogue, but wew, that's still amazing.

Also, in the /r/Xenoblade_Chronicles Discord, there's more datamines going on beyond that IIRC, like the exact HP of bosses (the final boss has 3 million HP, etc) and the upcoming Bringer of Chaos difficulty.

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jtmnm

@EvilLucario Xeno 3, maybe?

Datamine leaks are reliable, as far as I know. It's fair to expect these leaks are true. Assuming so, the expansion sounds incredible. I hope whatever's unlocked during it carries over to the main game. I'd also like to see an OP core chip that returns unique Blades' weapons back to their original forms.

Edited on by jtmnm

jtmnm

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jtmnm

@Tsurii There is a chip that returns weapons to their original models for all Blades but the unique ones like Dromarch, Poppi, Pandoria, etc.

Edited on by jtmnm

jtmnm

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SilverEdge92

Finished the last couple of superbosses; surprising how easily Tyrannotitan Kurodil and Cloud Sea King Ken went down. Out of them all, Pernicious Benf and Gladiator Orion were definitely the hardest ones. Seriously, **** those guys, I hate 'em.

SilverEdge92

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