The US Super Mario Bros 2 is a good game though. Weird when compared to SMB 1 and 3, but a good game. Yet another game I wasn't able to beat when I originally had it though. My reflexes and patience weren't good enough at the time.
I suspect the reason Skyward Sword never achieved such status is the motion controls. For some reason motion controls really annoy people. When done right, they can be fun. Exhausting, true. And you'll look like a fool with most full body motion control games (especially Kinect ones). But if they're done right it can add to the game very nicely. For example aiming with a bow in BotW, very well done motion controls.
@Yosheel It was back in it's day, a lot of people considered it a disappointing game that was too dark and too big of a departure from Ocarina of Time. It wasn't really held in high regard until much later when a bunch of people on gaming forums started to look back upon it fondly.
@FaeKnight I know a lot of people love Super Mario 2 these days but it wasn't exactly well received back in it's day, a lot of people thought it was far too different from the first game and it received a lot of criticism. The first and third game are the ones everyone always loved on the NES, Mario 2 was just too weird and a bit too difficult for a lot of people.
As for motion controls I would have to agree with you. They worked best when you were playing simple pick-up-n-play games like Wii Sports, in more complex games they often came across as more of a hindrance than anything. Fun until you got tired of it, then it would just seem unnecessary.
@FaeKnight
(snipped)
As for motion controls I would have to agree with you. They worked best when you were playing simple pick-up-n-play games like Wii Sports, in more complex games they often came across as more of a hindrance than anything. Fun until you got tired of it, then it would just seem unnecessary.
When they work, motion controls can be a blast. I don't regret buying a kinect for my 360, and still want the XB1 version so I can play my Kinect games on the xb1. The built in webcam and mic are just nice extras IMO. Kinect Bowling, Avengers: Battle For Earth, and The Gunstringer are a great fun. And I enjoy the occasional session with Kinect Adventures a lot. Not too often, it's exhausting. I also use my Kinect for a personal instructor with tai chi once a week and my normal workouts twice a week.
Broken motion controls, those are an issue. When I first heard of Rise of Nightmares I wanted that game. I bought a kinect with that game in mind even. Then I played the demo, and realized that while the combat motion controls worked well the movement motion controls were at best a nightmare. Half the time it wouldn't register you were trying to move. And when it did know you were trying to move, half of those times it would register you moving in the wrong direction. Which gets you killed repeatedly in a game where you have to time moving past traps (and fight near said traps).
And don't get me started on Kinect Star Wars. The only part of that hot mess that actually worked was the "Let's Dance" clone. Which was kind of fun, but more annoying with how it butchered decent songs to make them Star Wars themed.
I don't think it was ever truly unpopular, but I remember when Majora's Mask was the black sheep of the LoZ family. It always had this reputation of being a good game but a little too quirky for its own good, and maybe just too difficult. I do think its cachet has increased quite a bit over the years, starting almost immediately after Wind Waker came out (as these things tend to do).
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@JayJ When Majora's Mask was released not many video games forums existed. I remember it was my favourite N64 game back in the day and was praised by magazines.
It's like Super Mario Sunshine, people now say it wasn't appreciated but it was a commercial and critical success. Same for Twilight Princess.
Not great examples of unpopular games. Now with social media and online forums everything seems much intense than it really is because things are repeated constantly.
To be fair, the Game Cube wasn't a popular console (compared to the competitors), and the Wii sold very well but ended up collecting dust in most homes after the "new gimmick" excitement wore off. My brother has a wii. He loves the games he has on it. But even he rarely turns it on, and that's been the case for years now. Even the N64 wasn't as popular as the PS1, although it did beat out the Sega Saturn. So "critical and commercial success" and "unpopular and under appreciated" are not mutually exclusive in this case.
Also to be fair, the PS2 is considered the best selling console of all time. Compared to it, every current gen console would be considered a flop.
I would love to get a Switch to use as a travel console, but I'm holding off on getting one until the software at the very least reaches feature parity with the Wii U (virtual console, Netflix/Amazon Video/browser/etc) and hopefully there's another hardware revision to address some of the physical shortcomings as well (mainly ergonomics and durability).
I've got a long enough backlog (and a reasonably powerful laptop for gaming while traveling plus emulators on my smartphone) that I'm not in a huge rush and can wait for the Switch's successor if need be (or for something like an updated version of the Razer Edge Pro (https://www2.razer.com/gaming-systems/razer-edge-pro) and stick emulators on it).
Eh, not a fan of Majora's Mask. I had it on N64, and the game was okay to an extent. But the "3 days" limit passes far too fast. And the stuff needed to do so you can leave town as I remember reset as well each time you reset the 3 days. And also took me most of the 3 day limit to be able to accomplish. Which overall meant that I barely saw anything of the game past the deku scrubs task.
Totally agree. I haven't played the new version (don't have a 3DS), but I really didn't like the constant time pressure and feel that was the biggest misstep with the game's design. The masks were awesome though, I really hope they bring something like that (or at least multiple playable characters) into future Zelda games.
@FaeKnight@gamer1000k I used to be like you two — I avoided Majora's Mask since I didn't want to feel pressured with time running out when exploring or doing temples, etc. But once I played it, I realized the time limit is barely an issue and the game is amazing and a must-play. I highly recommend you give it a try. I gave the N64 version a try and was pleasantly surprised by how manageable it is. As @Trajan mentioned the Song of Half Time is very useful in this regard. And it's important to plan — the temples and tasks are cleverly designed to be doable in spurts, so you could complete one task and get a certain item, go back in time, and then continue along with plenty of time to do other tasks as if you never went back in time. You can also keep all your Rupees through the "bank" system in Clock Town so that you do not lose them after going back.
TLDR; Majora's Mask's time limit is nowhere near as bad as it sounds — a combination of the Song of Half Time and going back in time every time you complete a certain task or get a certain item pretty much removes the stress of the time limit. I rarely felt like I was racing against time in Majora's Mask thanks to the aforementioned strategies.
@shadow-wolf Absolutely right. Another thing I can add is that it's one of the best worlds ever created in a video game if not the best because everything is cohesive and has a progression.
Each character has a story through the three days and you can be there and change what happens. It's absolutely wonderful, it's not like in most games where all NPC do random stuff with AI loops. Majora's Mask is so smart and feels like a real world.
I feel sorry for those that could not dive into all this, but it's never too late and the 3DS version is even better.
@FaeKnight@gamer1000k I used to be like you two — I avoided Majora's Mask since I didn't want to feel pressured with time running out when exploring or doing temples, etc. But once I played it, I realized the time limit is barely an issue and the game is amazing and a must-play. I highly recommend you give it a try. I gave the N64 version a try and was pleasantly surprised by how manageable it is. As @Trajan mentioned the Song of Half Time is very useful in this regard. And it's important to plan — the temples and tasks are cleverly designed to be doable in spurts, so you could complete one task and get a certain item, go back in time, and then continue along with plenty of time to do other tasks as if you never went back in time. You can also keep all your Rupees through the "bank" system in Clock Town so that you do not lose them after going back.
TLDR; Majora's Mask's time limit is nowhere near as bad as it sounds — a combination of the Song of Half Time and going back in time every time you complete a certain task or get a certain item pretty much removes the stress of the time limit. I rarely felt like I was racing against time in Majora's Mask thanks to the aforementioned strategies.
My problems were three fold. First of all, "song of half time"? Where the frell do you learn that? And second of all, it reset the stuff needed to leave Clock Town, meaning that every time you have to reset time I had to redo those tasks. Which were taking me most of 2 in-game days to accomplish each time. And finally even once you leave town, where do you go next? The game offered zero clues where you're suppose to go next, so you end up wandering around aimlessly trying to find your next destination, and having to reset time before you find one of the temples. Which would lead back to problems #1 and #2.
This made what should have been a good game a great annoyance.
@shadow-wolf I have actually played Majora's Mask (granted, it was an emulated N64 version) and you're right, there's more than enough time in each 3-day cycle to make meaningful progress.
I guess for me, any game that has a strict schedule where certain things need to be done at very specific times and has automatic passage of time creates pressure, and ends up making the game feel like work in many cases. I've got Stardew Valley in my Steam library, and I just can't really get into it for this very reason.
For me in Majora's mask, it did discourage exploration and I just ended up following a walkthrough. At least it's easy to reset the timeline. I probably would have enjoyed the game a lot more if time didn't advance automatically so I could casually explore each area at my own pace and advance things when I was ready instead of having to constantly reset everything.
Still, I would be willing to try it again if I could find a cheap 3DS or Nintendo makes it available on a future console I'll inevitably end up getting (like the Switch once they get their act together on the virtual console).
If Majora's Mask kept the OoT system of time only passing when you're in the field but it pauses in towns and temples the game would have been more manageable. Having to do a lengthy string of fetch quests to leave town every time time resets meant I didn't have enough time to try figuring out where to go next.
I've heard the 3ds version is really easy with the way quests are organized. I had to follow a guide on the 64 version to get all the masks. I don't remember how you find out about the songs.
Problem with 3d games back then is that due to poor resolution, if something was different, half the time you wouldn't notice. I think the old strategy guides were pretty necessary. At least for me. Running around lost for 3 hours isn't fun. Didn't need a strategy guide for ALTTP though.
Tbh: I think MM is a better game than OoT. I only played MM for the first time last year (on 64; its what got me back into video games and to buy a Switch). I played OoT again a few months ago on 3ds. I need to get MM 3ds and play it again to confirm.
I'm different now though. I like quests more than dungeons. When I was younger I quit MM in the first dungeon.
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I think Majora's Mask was probably a bit too ambitious for the console it was made for and the time frame it had to be made within. What I could play of it, the game was good. But it's problems were too large for me to surmount. Others didn't have a problem with the game for one reason or another, but I wonder how many only got through the game using a strategy guide. Anyone remember strategy guides?
@FaeKnight I’m not sure it should take 2 hours to get out of Clock Town each time you go back in time. You should usually get an item or something that would allow you to “skip” ahead to where you stopped before. For example if you need a sword to get out of Clock Time and it takes a lengthy process to get the sword, you can go back in time once you get the sword and you don’t have to repeat getting the sword again; since you have it already you can just go out of Clock Town and continue on.
I think the basement of a house in Clock Town was where you can get the song of half time. If you Google “how to get Song of Half Time” then it should give you clear instructions on how to get it. Unfortunately for these games a walkthrough is necessary for when you get stuck, but any online free walkthrough would do so it shouldn’t be a big issue.
@gamer1000k I see what you’re saying. When you get a chance to replay it, I recommend you use the Song of Half Time. With that the time shouldn’t be stressful. You can usually comfortably complete tasks that act as checkpoints that allow you to go back in time without losing progress, so you’ll realize the time pressure is not as bad as it might appear at first glance.
Time is plentiful enough in Majoras Mask. You’ll only run out if you try to, say, do an entire section of the game in a single cycle. Like... 0 to 100 in the Great Bay Area in one sitting.
My 11 year old self never had problems managing time in that game. And he was very dumb, believe me.
Ok ok, credit where credit is due. My kid self played all those games from start to finish in a foreign language he didn't understand. Maybe he wasn't so dumb.
@FaeKnight It wasn't too ambitious but innovative.
I never used any guides for Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on Nintendo 64 and I was only stuck in Ocarina of Time because I didn't realise that I had to play a certain song on a certain place.
The 3DS version of Majora's Mask has much better frame rate, nicer visuals, better gameplay, better notebook, two new areas... It's the definitive version.
Like everyone else is saying, you have more than enough time to do things if you go back in time and slow down time and your progress is not reset as other have explained to you.
One of the best experiences is learn from the future and go back in time to fix it, or intervene to change people's destinies.
@ReaderRagfish Agreed. They are different. Ocarina of Time is a perfect round story and Majora's Mask is darker and more complex. Both are two of my favourite games ever.
LOL, seems like we need to start up a Majora's Mask thread if there isn't one already we can necro. We've filled up nearly a whole page on this thread talking about it.
Anyways, more back on the original thread topic...
For the next Switch hardware revision, I really hope they take more design cues from the Wii U gamepad from an ergonomics and durability standpoint. It's physically larger than the Switch (mostly in terms of thickness) which not only improves ergonomics, but also provides a LOT more internal volume for faster hardware and batteries.
Put a shatterproof 1080P IPS matte touch display in there, the hardware to properly run games at that resolution, enough battery capacity for at least 3-4 hours of full-res gaming (or longer if we opt for a lower-res power save mode), more storage (128GB+), and update the software to have feature-parity with the Wii U (VC, video apps, web browser, local save game backup) and it would be an awesome travel device.
I also realize that it would likely cost considerably more than it does now if all this were implemented without cutting corners, but I can dream, can't I?
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