Topic: Why the Nintendo Switch needs SD card save data backup

I don't like Pokemon and I already said what I had to say about Animal crossing, but thanks, you have just demonstrated that for other people (people who like Pokemon for example) saves backup can be very useful, not just for me, and that there are more games that I can think of that need this function.

@LuckyLand
You can't backup save data for physical copies of 3DS games. You couldn't backup DS game saves period. Never saw a thread on those sub-forums claiming the lack of an option was the end of the world. If anything I saw more threads complaining about digital rights for digital purchase and why they'd never buy games digitally on 3DS. So clearly it's not something people cared about, protested about or went out of their way to take advantage of.

Also dismissing something because you don't like them isn't a counter point. It's just a variation on no-true-Scotsman. I ask why this didn't matter on previous systems like 3DS and DS. Your counter point is that they're not real systems with real games where you'd actually care about save data. I point out two games where clearly that's not the case. You dismiss them as not mattering because you personally don't like those specific games. @DannyBoi, this is the calibre of debate from the people supporting your argument.

@skywake I don't know why you say this about Pokemon, I don't know Pokemon enough to understand why you talked about it, but if Pokemon players are happy to lose their user created content and have to redo everything again if something goes wrong it's not like I must agree with them.
Many people were crazy about Tamagotchi, a toy that was meant to ruin your play (it was meant to die) at some point. For me something like that is just crazy, and it would have been a huge problem for me if I liked that toy and wanted one. Other people loved it and they don't have problems if they have to raise different pets over and over again and see them die at some point. That does not mean I agree with them.

I was not dismissing Pokemon because I don't like it. I was just explaining why I did not consider it in the first place. I dont like it so I don't know enough things about it so I don't talk about it.
I was not dismissing systems that I don't like, I just explained why I never bothered to backup data on those systems.

PS: I never said that I don't like Animal Crossing. I have said that I actually would like it, but its punishing mechanics (that also make saves backup a lot less useful for that game and make it almost pointless to load an old save) ruin it for me and that makes me really sad because I really like it a lot, expecially the Gamecube version

They're not, that's my point.

You owned those systems and never backed up saves on them. Now after the fact you're making out like you didn't care for those systems as a way to explain away why you never backed up your saves. I know you didn't backup your saves on these consoles, I knew this before you answered because it's a tedious thing to do. I didn't back up my saves either, I don't think anyone did with any kind of regularity. That's my point.

By automating the process our save data will actually be safe. Having the option to manually backup your saves is nothing but a false sense of security and a way for Nintendo to shift the blame. Making it part of their online service AND charging us for it? They're taking full responsibility for the security of our saves. That's a good thing.

@skywake automatic backup on Steam made me lose my latest saved data two times. It's not that safe. And I will never trust Nintendo cloud mopre than Steam cloud. I trust it a lot less actually.

@LuckyLand In contrast, cloud saves on XB1 haven't had those kind of issues.

How does backing up on an SD card give a false sense of security Skywake?

@DannyBoi Reggie mentioned that people do want it, it is more to protect the system from Hacking. For Nintendo it is easier to control what can be done with saves if they are stored on Nintendo servers, also given the fact they can see if a hacked as soon as it is online and ban it, I think they might work on local backup.

There are only two ways this can realistically happen. Data corruption on the machine itself that overwrites the cloud save or someone goes on your steam account and starts a new game which then overwrites the cloud save. Both of which can also happen with manual save backups unless you're making a point of checking your backed up save.

Even so, the most recent backup is always going to be better than no backup at all. If your save is somehow corrupted or deleted on your machine? You're just as screwed as you would have been if that corrupt save was backed up to the cloud.

Because you're a piece of squishy unreliable meat not a machine that diligently takes a copy of your save data every time you connect to the internet. I work in the computing industry, trust me when I say that manual backups are pretty useless on their own. Nobody expects or anticipates data loss. If the answer to the question "when was the last backup run" isn't "it runs automatically once every ____" you're in for a whole lot of trouble.

The Switch has an SD card slot. All data(except save files) can be backed up on it. And this Logic?

And also, if Nintendo were not so secretive, we might actually know if they plan on adding local backup. And did Reggie mention local backup. Iseem to remember him being only for cloud saves.

Which is why I said that them enabling this would be super easy. Much easier and more cost effective on their part than the solution they are offering. I for one am glad that Nintendo aren't going the lazy option this time.

Also, multiple people have explained why they don't offer this option from a security/piracy/user experience point of view. I've explained at length multiple times why automated saves are significantly more reliable. You said yourself that you're happy to pay for the subscription. So what's the point in me saying anymore? It's clear that nothing anyone says in this thread matters

@skywake Yes, I did say, I was happy to pay for the subscription. But I also, said Ido a lot of travelling, so I would use the SD card a lot. As I obviously wouldnot be able to get on the internet much while Iam travelling.

Also, are Nintendo actually working on local backup?

@skywake I lost my latest save data on Steam simply playing offline, then the next time I played that game online Steam decided to keep my online save instead of the latest local one that was the most recent one.

And for games that are online, simply prevent copying to the SD card(or alternatively, only allow the singleplayer data to be copied over)

Googled this, found the bug report. The issue occurred because of the way Steam has to manage the way different developers save their game data. So they create what is essentially a local copy of the save first before then syncing that copy to the server. Apparently when in offline mode it wasn't creating the local copy properly. When you next went online it would update your save to this new faulty save.

So quite literally because they miss-managed the local copy first it broke. Very unlikely something like this would happen on a console because of the more standardised way everything is managed. But I just love the irony of this particular example. It's almost poetic that your example of how cloud saves suck vs local backups was a bug caused by miss-management of a local backup of a save file.

@skywake Just because Cloud save is better, doesn't automatically mean thatlocal saves are a no go. Yes, they are better than local backup. Lets say that cloud save has a 99% save protection rate and local backup has a 95% save protection rate, what is the difference?

And there is a demand for local backup. Looking on forums and such shows that a large quantity of people want it to be a reality.

@DannyBoi
Well firstly there's no way to really quantify it like that. And to the degree that you can quantify it I'd say it's more along the lines of how old the backup is more than how reliable it was. In this case cloud saves happen whenever you connect to the internet, manual backups happen whenever you manually trigger them. And I agree to an extent, with both you'll have more coverage. But this has not been my point. I've been saying two things this entire thread and two things only.

Firstly that there are other reasons why Nintendo doesn't want to give end users physical access to save files. People manipulate saves and it's something that we know degrades the online experience. It also opens more options for piracy. By locking down save files Nintendo have more control about what you can and can not do with them. It may be better for me as an option to backup but it's not better for me if other users abuse that feature. So local saves are a no go.

My second argument has been that cloud saves are comparatively better than manual backups. As a consumer I know that I don't run backups of my saves often enough if at all. Automating this is better than not having it automated. There is zero cost to me either given that I know I was going to pay for the subscription anyways. So for this reason I am not worse off personally even though Nintendo are locking down local backups.