Topic: Why a Joy-Con-less Switch model is a terrible idea

With rumors of a Switch revision floating around for next year, one idea many have suggested, was a small, cheap, handheld only model that has no detachable Joy-Con, or dock, and was just a generic handheld device. Anytime this idea is suggested, I have to facepalm in disappointment. In truth, such a device is not only a bad idea, but would also completely defeat the point of the Switch. As the Joy-Con actually make it a better system. Here's why.

Software compatibility - Problem #1 with this concept is that you automatically kill support for any game that relies on them to work. Sure, a lot of Switch games offer button based controls as alternatives. But then you have games like 1-2 Switch, Just Dance, Nintendo Labo, Super Mario Party, etc. that forgo handheld mode support, so that the game can be designed completely around the Joy-Con. So now this handheld only Switch isn't guaranteed to play all Switch games.

Discourages use of the Joy-Con - Another issue is that just the mere existence of such a device will automatically scare developers away from doing anything cool with these controllers. Now they have to consider not everyone has these controllers to play, so they have to dumb the game down just to function on buttons. While some people may like that, it kills a ton of creativity that could be had on Switch, and can even make several games worse to play as a result. This isn't like 3D where it was explicitly mandated to be optional, Nintendo allows developers to design games exclusively around the Joy-Con, so making a handheld only Switch tosses all of that out the window for no reason.

It makes the Switch more generic - The biggest problem I have with the proposal of this idea, is that it demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of why the Switch is so successful. It's easy to say the Switch is selling well because it's a Nintendo handheld. And while it's true portability is a big part of it's success, it's far from the only reason. I think the bigger reason why the Switch is a success is because it's a way more original concept than "Just another great Nintendo handheld". In a day and age where conventional handhelds are dead due to the ubiquity of smartphones, the Switch offers features and play-styles that instantly distinguish itself from your typical mobile device. It's a home console, you can play on the TV as well. You can also play with a friend by sharing a Joy-Con, pop up the kick-stand and play motion control games anywhere. Have Jean Sebastian Joust Nonsense with 1-2 Switch at a coffee shop, build cardboard toys out of it with Nintendo Labo, turn dual screen gaming on its head with Super Mario Party. And a host of other ways to play. A large part of the Switch's appeal, lies in the seemingly endless play-styles you can mine from it, and that's thanks almost entirely to the Joy-Con. There's a reason they're the Switch's logo, because the focus isn't the console or its play-styles, rather it's the controllers that help enable those play-styles. The Joy-Con help give the Switch something to stand on its own with. Take them away, you take away everything that makes the Switch interesting, and turn it into the very thing it was designed NOT to be. Just another generic, run-of-the-mill gaming handheld, in a day and age where those devices are practically extinct.

This is why I believe Nintendo shouldn't entertain the thought of such a device. It's an unnecessary product that would have no real market and would defeat the entire point of the Switch. Besides, whatever problem it could solve, can already be addressed by time and a dock-less bundle. A Switch bundle without a dock honestly, does a much better job at appealing to the more price conscious side of the mobile market, while still retaining the core concept of the Switch.

Valid points. And yet I would still entertain the prospect of Nintendo releasing a portable-centric Switch. Because although I doubt they could downsize the mobo and chipset, I would appreciate a Switch that would fit in my pocket and allow me to sit down at the same time. Maybe if the Switch Mini used a clamshell design Nintendo could still pull it off?

Regardless, I'm equally excited for either a pro version or a mini version. I would buy both.

You cannot simply dismiss Nintendo's history of hardware iteration.

@Magician I think on this stance that is more true then not.

Why are you making the assumption that such a product would be incompatible with these accessories? I happen to be one of the people who always suggest a "handheld" SKU of the Switch as a revision down the road. A smaller, lower cost device where the "JoyCon" are physically attached to the device. It makes sense. What doesn't make sense is going out of your way to make it incompatible with current accessories.

There's absolutely no advantage, cost or otherwise, to make a different SKU of the Switch not compatible with various bluetooth accessories including Joycon. There's even less reason not to have the external video connector via USB Type C. The dock itself they'd need to make a different casing for but that's literally all that'd be required there. I could easily see them selling a "Switch Mini" without the dock and selling a "Mini Dock & Play" kit separately with a Mini compatible dock, Standard JoyCon Pair & Charge Grip.

As for why they'd do this? Well the 3DS is on the way out and the Switch is it's successor. I've been saying this since before the Switch launched to much whining from people pointing out the specific niche the 3DS fills. Cheap, ultra portable, non-phone games. A different SKU of the Switch could easily deliver the final blow to the 3DS and fill that niche properly. It'd be cheap enough that it could more comfortably be be a console for smaller kids and it'd be small enough that the people who complain about the Switch's size compared to the 3DS wouldn't have anything left to complain about.

A big part of the Switch's appeal is that everything is out-of-the-box. All the unique playstyles and controls are built right in. Adding more costs and barriers to entry takes away the simplicity of it's versatility.

There's absolutely no advantage, cost or otherwise, to make a different SKU of the Switch not compatible with various bluetooth accessories including Joycon. There's even less reason not to have the external video connector via USB Type C. The dock itself they'd need to make a different casing for but that's literally all that'd be required there. I could easily see them selling a "Switch Mini" without the dock and selling a "Mini Dock & Play" kit separately with a Mini compatible dock, Standard JoyCon Pair & Charge Grip.

If you're going to do that, you might as well wait out a price cut or sell a dock-less Switch then. Those two options help drive the cost of the Switch down, while retaining the core concept.

As for why they'd do this? Well the 3DS is on the way out and the Switch is it's successor. I've been saying this since before the Switch launched to much whining from people pointing out the specific niche the 3DS fills. Cheap, ultra portable, non-phone games. A different SKU of the Switch could easily deliver the final blow to the 3DS and fill that niche properly. It'd be cheap enough that it could more comfortably be be a console for smaller kids and it'd be small enough that the people who complain about the Switch's size compared to the 3DS wouldn't have anything left to complain about.

You can easily do the same job with a Dock-less Switch bundle. The Switch really isn't that big, and since Nintendo is already turning a profit off it, there's more room to price cut in faster than they would if they were selling it at a loss. Plus, even without the Dock, all of the Switch's playstyles can still be accessed thanks to tabletop mode.

@TheMisterManGuy
How are you ok with a Switch being sold without a dock (which is already a SKU in Japan) but not with a "Switch Mini" built around the idea. That just doesn't make sense to me. Also, yes, the "core concept" of the Switch is that it's flexible in terms of how you can play it. Why not expand on that by offering a SKU that better caters to the portable nature of the console? Especially if it doesn't entirely lock you out of the home console experience.

I'd also add that the Switch being a portable console is going to be owned by more than one person in various households. That means that a lot of people will be buying a Switch who have no interest in playing it on the TV because they already have a Switch plugged into their TV. They don't need JoyCons because they already have some. A cut price version of the Switch would make the console a much easier sell to these people.

Also this bit about "losing games" like Mario Party isn't really as big a deal as you make it out to be. Off the top of my head it's about the only game that doesn't support handheld mode. Even then, it's a party game built for the TV and it's sold with a pair of JoyCon anyways. Lets not forget that the Wii U launched bundled with a game that required WiiMotes. Or the fact that the Switch is about the only console ever to launch with options for two player multiplayer out of the box.

Lastly, just because a SKU exists doesn't mean you have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to sell your Switch and all of your accessories to get the new SKU. Just like there's no requirement to upgrade to a PS4 Pro or XBOne X. The existence of other SKUs that target different sections of the market doesn't at all de-value the existing SKUs. Would I buy a Switch Mini if it launched? Probably not. But I definitely know of people who would be more likely to buy a Switch if it was a thing and that's basically the entire point of a different SKU.

3DS sales are about 1/3rd of what they were last year. Nintendo would be smart to find a way to make the Switch better fit into that niche.

Because sacrificing the dock doesn't kill functionality in terms of control and gameplay possibilities unlike sacrificing the Joy-Con. The Switch is first and foremost, a mobile device. The dock is simply there to expand the display. Anything that's possible in TV mode is possible in tabletop mode. TV mode just make some stuff easier to see.

I'd also add that the Switch being a portable console is going to be owned by more than one person in various households. That means that a lot of people will be buying a Switch who have no interest in playing it on the TV because they already have a Switch plugged into their TV. They don't need JoyCons because they already have some. A cut price version of the Switch would make the console a much easier sell to these people.

Then again, just sell a dock-less bundle. It'd be a good solution to get to those one-per-person sales, while still retaining the core concept of the Switch.

Also this bit about "losing games" like Mario Party isn't really as big a deal as you make it out to be. Off the top of my head it's about the only game that doesn't support handheld mode. Even then, it's a party game built for the TV and it's sold with a pair of JoyCon anyways. Lets not forget that the Wii U launched bundled with a game that required WiiMotes. Or the fact that the Switch is about the only console ever to launch with options for two player multiplayer out of the box.

It's not just Mario Party. You also kill 1-2 Switch, Labo, Just Dance, and games like Fit Boxing. These games are only going to become more common on the Switch in the Future due to their success. On top of that, taking away the Joy-Con just makes the Switch a bland and less interesting system. It's the equivalent of selling a DS without a touchscreen, or a Wii without the Wiimote. Sure it's still a Switch in name and software, but you kill the soul and identity of the system in the process.

The Wii U example is poor because the mess of required controllers that weren't bundled is part of the reason the Wii U failed. What you're suggesting only adds needless complexity and barriers to entry for lower-end users.

Lastly, just because a SKU exists doesn't mean you have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to sell your Switch and all of your accessories to get the new SKU. Just like there's no requirement to upgrade to a PS4 Pro or XBOne X. The existence of other SKUs that target different sections of the market doesn't at all de-value the existing SKUs. Would I buy a Switch Mini if it launched? Probably not. But I definitely know of people who would be more likely to buy a Switch if it was a thing and that's basically the entire point of a different SKU.

Of course, you don't have to buy it. But the fact that it exists at all will just screw everything up. You remember how confusing the 2DS' introduction made the 3DS line to parents. It eventually got to the point where Nintendo just phased out 3D from their newer games all together, even discontinuing the New 3DS is certain markets. The Joy-Con concept isn't a gimmick or fad like 3D was. The Joy-Con is something people genuinely like. It sets the Switch apart from the legions of generic iPads and gaming wannabe tablets on the market in a good way, and helps make it a perfect supplement to your phone. A Switch without the Joy-Con, would just be a generic, unnecessary product that defeats the entire point of the Switch.

3DS sales are about 1/3rd of what they were last year. Nintendo would be smart to find a way to make the Switch better fit into that niche.

And as I said, you can just sell a dock-less Switch at that point. It'd do a much better job at getting the Switch into handheld adoption rates, without ripping its soul out (IE, the Joy-Con).

I'm not sure why you're deliberately ignoring the point I'm making here. I'm not talking about sacrificing the JoyCon at all. I'm talking about making the console itself smaller and cheaper by having the controls built in. It'd be stupid for them to remove compatibility for wireless accessories. It'd be stupid for them to kill the ability to play games on the TV. But they can still make a smaller, cheaper, more "DS" sized and priced system without losing these things. All you're really losing is the ability to always transition from portable to tabletop mode.

Speaking for myself, I barely ever take my JoyCon out of the rails on my Switch. If I do it it's pretty much only to change the colours around a bit or charge up one of my other sets. The Switch is a chameleon, it serves different needs for different users. I don't see how having a SKU which focuses more directly on one particular niche damages that. And in any case, it's hardly the soul of the console.

Just look at the list of games you came up with that would be "unplayable" out of the box. Mario Party, 1-2 Switch, Labo, Just Dance and Fit Boxing? You're not really selling this.

Just because I mentioned something the Wii U did doesn't mean my point is invalid. As I went on to say the Switch is about the only console ever to launch with options for two player multiplayer out of the box. When I setup my original Wii for Christmas about 12 years ago half of Wii Sports was effectively locked out because I only had one controller. This didn't mean Nintendo was stupid not to include 2x WiiMotes in the box.

And as I pointed out earlier, the Switch is also a portable console and a successor to the 3DS. People will buy more than one per household. Those second and third consoles will live in houses where people already have Joycons. Surely it's not that crazy to think that having a SKU on the shelves that better caters to these users would result in more sales. Again, it's not for you, it's not for me, neither of us have to buy it. But like the original 2DS it can be appealing to neither of us and still make sense.

The fact that they wouldn't come with the system is the problem here. The Joy-Con work because they're a clever out-of-the box solution to allow the Switch to create different play-styles when needed. Taking them away from the package adds an un-necessary barrier to entry that makes it more complicated.

Speaking for myself, I barely if every take my JoyCon out of the rails on my Switch. If I do it it's pretty much only to change the colours around a bit or charge up one of my other sets. The Switch is a chameleon, it serves different needs for different users. I don't see how having a SKU which focuses more directly on one particular niche damages that. And in any case, it's hardly the soul of the console.

Because the niche who already use the Switch exclusively as a handheld, already do so to begin with. While I'm not against the idea of a smaller Switch, I'm against the idea if it means taking away features people like, especially if they're integral to how the system functions.

Just look at the list of games you came up with that would be "unplayable" out of the box. Mario Party, 1-2 Switch, Labo, Just Dance and Fit Boxing? You're not really selling this.

You may not be a fan of these games, but their sales prove that there is a large audience for them on Switch. So by making a handheld only Switch, you screw these people over by discouraging developers from making these types of games.

That's a very cheap shot, just because I mentioned something the Wii U did doesn't mean my point is invalid. As I went on to say the Switch is about the only console ever to launch with options for two player multiplayer out of the box. When I setup my original Wii for Christmas about 12 years ago half of Wii Sports was effectively locked out because I only had one controller.

It's not just that the Wii U required extra controllers for multiplayer. All consoles, even the Switch require additional purchases if you want more than 2 players. The problem was that the Wii U had way too many controllers that were context sensitive. You can only use one gamepad at a time. You want motion games? Well hope you have a Wii mote or two lying around, preferably with motion plus since not all Wii-motes have them. You want a more conventional controller? Well there's the Pro Controller for you. Don't have one? Well then you're stuck using your old classic controller. BTW, you still have your nunchucks right? Nintendo destroyed the Wii brand by over-complicating it with too much related hardware, creating a confusing mess of which controllers you can use and which ones you can't.

With the Switch, the only other controller you have to worry about, is the Pro Controller. Everything else, the Joy-Con can serve more than well enough. Motion Controllers? Check! Extra controller for multiplayer? Check! Conventional Controller? Check! Slide on Handheld controls? Check! the Joy-Con serve all the necessary roles as intuitively as possible, and does a damn fine job at it.

And as I pointed out earlier and nobody has picked up on, the Switch isn't a typical home console. It's a portable also. People will buy more than one per househould as they did with the 3DS, DS and Gameboy. Those second and third consoles will live in houses where people already have Joycons and docks. Surely it's not that crazy to think that having a SKU on the shelves that is cheaper by not selling things the end user litterally doesn't need or want would result in more sales.

I'd argue that a Standard Switch model, just without the dock and grip would also give families extra controllers for single system multiplayer when needed. And can even enhance it since Local Wireless can be combined with single screen multiplayer to create some unique, Wii U-esque multiplayer experiences when needed. I don't see why incorporating the Joy-Con into a dock-less Switch sku is a bad idea?

I don't like the JoyCons at all. The only thing I like about them is that they can be removed and put away. I just can't take them seriously as a controller. Pro controller all the way for me, TV and table top mode only. I rarely play handheld, but if they released a dedicated Switch without detachable JoyCons, I would.

And if it kills 1-2 Switch, Mario Party, Just Dance, etc. - good, those games suck anyways. It won't though so don't worry about it.

And the Switch is different how? I'm outlining a way that they could sensibly make a Switch SKU that better fills the gap left by the 3DS. You can't have the same JoyCon on a smaller Switch because the Switch locks you into a size. The two options are to make "mini-Joycon" OR to give up on the detachable controllers.

I think maintaining compatibility with the existing accessories but building the controls in makes more sense. If they were to do this it's the way I think creates the least amount of confusion for consumers and makes the package more appealing. The alternative is a mess of controllers that are compatible here but not elsewhere and a SKU that's no cheaper than the standard Switch.

I'm not sure what your point is, I didn't say that the Switch should be sold without JoyCons. I said that a portable focused SKU could be sold without them if the controls were physically built into the console. You wouldn't need the JoyCon to get started and you can always buy them later if/when you do need them. It is always better for the consumer to not pay for stuff they won't use. Better for Nintendo to because it means they can sell it for less and move more consoles. Really, it's as simple as that.

I already explained to you how the Switch is different. The Joy-Con are an all-in-one controller that gives you everything you need for whatever type of game you want to play. The Wii U forced you to use different controllers at different times. Wii U's handling of control options was grossly un-intuitive compared to how the Switch does it.

I'm outlining a way that they could sensibly make a Switch SKU that better fills the gap left by the 3DS. You can't have the same JoyCon on a smaller Switch because the Switch locks you into a size. The two options are to make "mini-Joycon" OR to give up on the detachable controllers.

Technically it is possible to integrate the Joy-Con into a smaller Switch form-factor. But it'd require tweaking to the actual screen size, position, and internal layout of the system to make it work. If Nintendo ever goes with Tegra X2 for a new Switch model, they could easily do a clam shell design, where the base includes rails for the Joy-Con to slot into, without having to worry about where to place a fan since the more efficient process eliminates the need for active cooling.

I think maintaining compatibility with the existing accessories but building the controls in makes more sense. If they were to do this it's the way I think creates the least amount of confusion for consumers and makes the package more appealing. The alternative is a mess of controllers that are compatible here but not elsewhere and a SKU that's no cheaper than the standard Switch.

Selling a dock-less Switch is a way simpler solution. It tells consumers this is still a Switch, just without a TV out. Nintendo already sells a dockless Switch on their Japanese website, so a more WW retail release would still do as well, if not better than some Joy-Con-free monstrosity.

I'm not sure what your point is, I didn't say that the Switch should be sold without JoyCons. I said that a portable focused SKU could be sold without them if the controls were physically built into the console. You wouldn't need the JoyCon to get started and you can always buy them later if/when you do need them. It is always better for the consumer to not pay for stuff they won't use. Better for Nintendo to because it means they can sell it for less and move more consoles. Really, it's as simple as that.

The point is that getting rid of the Joy-Con destroys the core design and appeal of the Switch. There's nothing that a 2DS like frankenstien can't do, that a simple dockless bundle can't already do well. Again, this isn't the same as killing 3D on the 3DS. Most people like the Joy-Con, they're a major reason why the Switch is so successful. Taking them away makes the Switch far less original as a product, and just turns it into bad PS Vita knock-off.

The really cool thing about opinions is that everyone has them. They’re also not right or wrong.
When I hear ‘Switch Mini’, I think of the PSP-1000 form factor. And I’m perfectly okay with that.

That's one take but sales figures of those games would point otherwise.

Sony did the killing of vita - it didn't kill itself. Sony in killing off a portable device doomed their own fate.

It's so obvious what the revision is next year. You are all going to kick yourselves. Please only click if you can't wait for the announcement.

@TheMisterManGuy you’re obviously entitled to your opinions and I respect them but I’m going to hazard a guess that you;

a. Don’t have young children

b. Have never worked in marketing

c. Have never been involved in the logistics of manufacturing a mass consumer product.

There are very compelling reasons to make a handheld SKU without joycons that might not be obvious to you if you haven’t had any of the three experiences listed above.

It’s easier to market a single piece device to families with young children. It’s inherently more durable. Anyone want to share stories about 5 year olds who’ve made their joy cons wobbly?

Likewise it’s also much cheaper to manufacture and ship a single piece of hardware than it is to manufacture and ship a console and two separate small controllers.

Probably because cases like that are a minority? Switch really isn't that fragile. I've dropped mine a few times already, and it still works just fine. Also such a thing would actually be harder to market because of the reasons I listed above. Software compatibility, discouraging developers, and making it a more generic and unappealing system. Sure it's nice in theory to think this could be a great gift for the kiddos. But in practice, it'd a be a branding disaster.

Likewise it’s also much cheaper to manufacture and ship a single piece of hardware than it is to manufacture and ship a console and two separate small controllers.

You realize hardware comes down in price right? All Nintendo has to do is sell a dock-less Switch for $250, and wait out a price cut for another year and sell it for $199. The best part is that they don't have to waste tons of money on R&D to do so.

If they do this it’s good for people that want the option.

Having said that, I won’t be buying it. The next hardware I intend to buy is Switch 2 or whatever Nintendo comes up with next gen. I’m generally against hardware upgrades/changes mid gen because to me it negates some of the advantages of being a console gamer. Spending out every couple of years or so on hardware feels like a PC thing which is the main reason I don’t game on PC. It’s nice to be ‘all in’ for 4/5 years each gen.