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Topic: What should Nintendo do to make the NX succeed?

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Bolt_Strike

IceClimbers wrote:

11. Storage. Needs at least a 500 GB hard drive, with the ability to expand it with external HDDs.

500 GB wouldn't be terrible, but I think that would be a bit below average. Realistically I think by 9th gen people are going to expect something in the 1-4 TB range.

Bolt_Strike

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Blast

Just make it a console/handheld hybrid. I hope... they can find a way to release big handheld series like Pokemon and release big console series like Zelda on just ONE platform. They just gotta figure out a way to do this. Have your entire development squads work on just one platform! Tell Monolith to make another game for NX! Tell Gamefreak to make another Pokemon game for NX! Then you can drop the bomb that 3rd party support is actually there! Final Fantasy XV on NX! Grand Theft Auto on NX! Call of Duty on NX!

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IceClimbers

Bolt_Strike wrote:

IceClimbers wrote:

11. Storage. Needs at least a 500 GB hard drive, with the ability to expand it with external HDDs.

500 GB wouldn't be terrible, but I think that would be a bit below average. Realistically I think by 9th gen people are going to expect something in the 1-4 TB range.

Oh I agree with that. The 500 GB was just the absolute bare minimum.

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PikPi

It depends on how big the games are and if it would require mandatory installs like PS4 and One. If they don't and have general sizes like Wii U games, I'd think 500 GB is more than enough for Nintendo games. Not unless their games jump up to like 20+GB per game

PikPi

skywake

You've gotta also take into account the capacities you'll be able to play with when this thing potentially launches. A portable system they could basically just drop a 16GB SD card in the box these days. In about two years from now they'll either do that or 32GB. In either case for a portable I'm not sure how much an issue storage would be. I'd doubt that even with the huge leap in horsepower they can get out of it they'll be moving beyond standard def anyways. Small screens and all that. And with standard def you don't need the texture resolution which means the games can all be fairly compact.

For a home console it's a bit of a different story. When this console generation started around 2013 it was about the same price for a 30GB SSD or a 500GB HDD. We know which route Nintendo took. Today that same money will get you a 120GB SSD or a 750GB HDD. So I think it would be fair to assume that in 2017 the choice would likely be between between a 250GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. Now if I was personally tasked to build a "gaming PC" and had to make that choice? Flash first. Every day. Then if you run out of space add a HDD later. It's going to be an even easier choice as capacities continue to improve.

The other thing I'll add is in response to the comment about how high end their hardware will need to be. If they were approaching it like everyone else and if they were to launch this early? Then sure. But I don't think that's what'll happen. Nintendo doesn't want to compete on horsepower but they have said they like Apple's model. So I reckon the more likely they'll want to make it so that individual devices are strengthened by the whole ecosystem. Third parties won't move over because it has more horsepower. They'll move over because when you develop for Nintendo's portable you're also going some ways to develop for their home console. Which would mean more content on both from both first and third parties. More content? More reason to buy into that ecosystem. More users, more third party developers.

Edited on by skywake

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iKhan

IceClimbers wrote:

Assuming the NX is a home console, they need to do this:

2. Proper Marketing. Have the aggressiveness in marketing that they used to have. This is essential. People need to know it exists.

This is my biggest concern. Nintendo has shown a complete incompetence in their ability to adventise since the late Wii era. It's almost like they completely forgot how strong their early Wii ads pushed to system, not to families, but to literally everyone.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

crimsontadpoles

Encouraging more 3rd parties is the thing I want to see most. Even though Nintendo games are great, they are not enough on their own. If the NX was a more powerful machine with an architecture that's easy to work with then 3rd parties would be more inclined to put a game on this system.

Advertisement is also a big thing Nintendo need to do much better at. I've met people who thought that the Wii U was just a slightly more powerful version of the Wii. Also, moving away from the Wii brand and using a less rediculous name would help out.

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CM30

I'd say the following things are pretty much necessary:

1. Give it a decent name/branding. 3DS was debatable. Wii U was horrible. Wii Mini, 2DS and New Nintendo 3DS were absolutely godawful for names. Come on with something that makes it incredibly clear that this is not a Wii/Wii U revision but a whole new system.

2. Market the hell out of it. No, no on Twitter or Facebook. On mainstream media that non fans visit. This especially goes for Nintendo of Europe, though they have been advertising Splatoon on TV recently.

3. Get more third party support. In fact, outright pay for third party support. Make them release a bunch of games exclusively for the new system and watch Microsoft/Sony get screwed over instead.

4. Release games more closely together. Indeed, don't even launch the system til you have at least three or four big games ready for launch day and about 10 or so more for the coming year.

5. Remove region locking. Before someone has to force you to.

6. Make games that people want, not what the developers want. The customers matter, the developers don't. Putting a half assed effort into 2D Mario games and then putting all the effort into 3D ones despite the former outselling the latter by about 4-1 is insane. Making Zelda move further and further from the old games and actual sales success to please your kids is absolute lunacy. Make more games people want, even if it means a bunch of developers have to leave or shut up.

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skywake

The thing about building a system around "attracting third parties" is that third party friendly systems are a dime a dozen. Give them more power, use standard controls, use the same architecture, don't show them up. Be a hardware manufacturer churning out the same product as everyone else. And there's a place for that.... but I don't think that should be Nintendo's game.

But you know what third party developers really like? A big install base. Doesn't matter what you've done if you have a big install base they'll come bashing down your door. Even ahead of the dudes who are trying to suck up to them. So ultimately Nintendo should play to their strengths. Be unique and interesting and produce quality software. If they can find a way to produce more quality content? Well that should be their focus. If they can manage that then an install base and the third parties will follow.

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

iKhan

skywake wrote:

The thing about building a system around "attracting third parties" is that third party friendly systems are a dime a dozen. Give them more power, use standard controls, use the same architecture, don't show them up. Be a hardware manufacturer churning out the same product as everyone else. And there's a place for that.... but I don't think that should be Nintendo's game.

But you know what third party developers really like? A big install base. Doesn't matter what you've done if you have a big install base they'll come bashing down your door. Even ahead of the dudes who are trying to suck up to them. So ultimately Nintendo should play to their strengths. Be unique and interesting and produce quality software. If they can find a way to produce more quality content? Well that should be their focus. If they can manage that then an install base and the third parties will follow.

The big problem with that strategy is that Nintendo has been turning away third parties for generations. It's no longer as simple as just having a big install base.

Nintendo needs to be able to communicate to third parties that their system not only will have a big install base, but that that base will be interested in those games. They also need to communicate to third parties that third party games are available on their system.

This is something they actually did in the early Wii era. There were commercials for third party Wii games like Madden. With the Wii U, I'm not sure many people even knew AC: Black Flag was available on Wii U, as advertising didn't really mention it.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

skywake

@iKhan
I'd argue that with Nintendo and third parties it's not a single "problem" that runs across all consoles. With the Wii they got third party support in general but lost out on some key titles because of technical limitations. Even in that first year or on the Wii it was getting decent third party support for sure but it wasn't getting Bioshock, GTA4, Fallout etc. Purely because of it's low horsepower. But it sold well regardless because they were out of the gate quickly with a lot of content. Largely because they could quickly move stuff across from the Gamecube.

With the Wii U it was a different story, right out of the gate it gets Mass Effect, Batman, Assassin's Creed and CoD. The next year and after some slower sales we get new Assassin's Creed and CoD while the other platforms get Tomb Raider, GTA and a new Batman. I don't doubt for a second that if 2013 had been a good year for the Wii U we would have got most of those titles. Instead as the sales continued to be low third parties pulled out. They were there but they went and ran when the sales weren't good. And sales weren't good for the first year there was nothing really worth playing on the system. If there's a thread where someone asks what Wii U games to buy you'll get people listing 2014 titles and Splatoon. By then the third parties have already gone.

But what is interesting is that by the end of 2013 Nintendo already had a bunch of games worth playing.... on the 3DS. Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Kart, 3D Land, Kid Icarus, Pokemon, Zelda. The 3DS was having its best year while we were all sitting around wondering why we got a Wii U at launch. I'd argue that having some of their portable games appear on both platforms sooner? Allow their portable to be the "Gamecube" to their home console's "Wii" but all at once. That's how they solve the "Wii U" problem. IMO.

Edited on by skywake

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

iKhan

skywake wrote:

@iKhan
I'd argue that with Nintendo and third parties it's not a single "problem" that runs across all consoles. With the Wii they got third party support in general but lost out on some key titles because of technical limitations. Even in that first year or on the Wii it was getting decent third party support for sure but it wasn't getting Bioshock, GTA4, Fallout etc. Purely because of it's low horsepower. But it sold well regardless because they were out of the gate quickly with a lot of content. Largely because they could quickly move stuff across from the Gamecube.

With the Wii U it was a different story, right out of the gate it gets Mass Effect, Batman, Assassin's Creed and CoD. The next year and after some slower sales we get new Assassin's Creed and CoD while the other platforms get Tomb Raider, GTA and a new Batman. I don't doubt for a second that if 2013 had been a good year for the Wii U we would have got most of those titles. Instead as the sales continued to be low third parties pulled out. They were there but they went and ran when the sales weren't good. And sales weren't good for the first year there was nothing really worth playing on the system. If there's a thread where someone asks what Wii U games to buy you'll get people listing 2014 titles and Splatoon. By then the third parties have already gone.

It's not a single problem, but their historically tumultuous relationship with 3rd parties has led to the particular problem I'm talking about. That is, lack of trust and cautiousness. Games like Rayman Legends jump ship, because after a few months of sub-Wii sales, Ubisoft lost faith. Developers didn't have enough faith in the Wii U to give games like GTA or Destiny a solid chance. Furthermore, you aren't seeing 3rd parties approach Nintendo themselves, so Nintendo has to go approach many 3rd parties all on their own.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

skywake

@iKhan
Again, ultimately it comes down to commerce. Since the mid-90s they've only had platforms that were either seriously limited in terms of hardware or had a pretty average install base. When they had hardware that was "good enough" with the GC and Wii U? They got the games we're talking about only for it to fall away once the sales didn't come. When they had the user-base with the Wii and any of their portables? The tech was so far behind that third parties had to build entirely different games for them.

If next generation they give them a bit of both. Give them a portable that's powerful enough that all of the mid-tier titles could well and truly fit. Then give them a home console that's slots in between the PS4 and PS5. And ontop of that make it so that if they build a game for the portable they're 90% of the way there for their home console? That'd be enough to get the ball rolling surely. Especially if at the same time it solves the issue of Nintendo spreading themselves thin given that portable development is about to go through the HD-era growing pains.

Edited on by skywake

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Sleepingmudkip

I dont know if anyone said this but the NX should be all new infrastructure but do what microsoft did and if you put a wii U disc in the system and the game available on the E-shop for the NX then you can download the game for free. That would go around the backwards comparability I think.

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iKhan

skywake wrote:

@iKhan
Again, ultimately it comes down to commerce. Since the mid-90s they've only had platforms that were either seriously limited in terms of hardware or had a pretty average install base. When they had hardware that was "good enough" with the GC and Wii U? They got the games we're talking about only for it to fall away once the sales didn't come. When they had the user-base with the Wii and any of their portables? The tech was so far behind that third parties had to build entirely different games for them.

If next generation they give them a bit of both. Give them a portable that's powerful enough that all of the mid-tier titles could well and truly fit. Then give them a home console that's slots in between the PS4 and PS5. And ontop of that make it so that if they build a game for the portable they're 90% of the way there for their home console? That'd be enough to get the ball rolling surely. Especially if at the same time it solves the issue of Nintendo spreading themselves thin given that portable development is about to go through the HD-era growing pains.

It's possible, but I'd argue that 3rd parties strongly believe that they can rely on Sony and Microsoft for their audience. Even if they get a huge initial install base, if 3rd parties think that install base is mostly children and fans who only buy Nintendo games, they will still be cautious. And I believe that years of weak 3rd party relations (as you mention for many many different reasons) has created a cautious environment among 3rd parties. I strongly believe Nintendo needs to reach out to 3rd parties themselves and try to fix that problem.

One of the best ways to do that is to simply advertise that 3rd party games are available.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Blast

It's gonna launch with a bad name and bad launch titles. This is the worst yet most realistic thing I expect to happen.

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IceClimbers

Blast wrote:

It's gonna launch with a bad name and bad launch titles. This is the worst yet most realistic thing I expect to happen.

Hey, Zelda U I wouldn't consider a bad title. Though a cross-gen game is less than impressive for a launch title in my opinion, especially since I own a Wii U. Games like that and Smash 4 (let's be honest, they'd be dumb not to do a "Definitive Edition" remaster of it with all DLC included since the next Smash naturally won't come out until the NX's final year, at which point they might just pull a Twilight Princess on it) aren't that impressive.

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Sleepingmudkip

If the NX really is a replacement for the Wii U, I want to see games like Wind waker HD and Hyrule warriors at least ported to the NX or allow backwards compatibility(Weather that means you can just put the disc in or do what microsoft did where you can redownload the games if they are available on the store)

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Blast

IceClimbers wrote:

Blast wrote:

It's gonna launch with a bad name and bad launch titles. This is the worst yet most realistic thing I expect to happen.

Hey, Zelda U I wouldn't consider a bad title. Though a cross-gen game is less than impressive for a launch title in my opinion, especially since I own a Wii U. Games like that and Smash 4 (let's be honest, they'd be dumb not to do a "Definitive Edition" remaster of it with all DLC included since the next Smash naturally won't come out until the NX's final year, at which point they might just pull a Twilight Princess on it) aren't that impressive.

We need those Definitive Editions of Smash and Mario Kart on NX as launch day games. We really do. I also own a Wii U and have those games. Twilight Princess HD and hopefully Metroid Prime 4 will be launch day games on NX. Zelda U should remain just on Zelda U. Let the console keep its pride.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

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Blast

Sleepingmudkip wrote:

If the NX really is a replacement for the Wii U, I want to see games like Wind waker HD and Hyrule warriors at least ported to the NX or allow backwards compatibility(Weather that means you can just put the disc in or do what microsoft did where you can redownload the games if they are available on the store)

Ahhh... Backwards compatibility... Now that's a real big topic for NX.

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