We know it's not Metroid Prime. They started on whatever they're working on in 2014 and at E3 2015 Tanabe confirmed there wasn't one in development outside of Fed Force. So unless Tanabe was lying or they scrapped what they were working on and started a new Metroid Prime instead since then, they are not working on Metroid Prime.
Given that composer, could they be reviving Raven Blade?
@FGPackers I played a little bit (not even an hour i think) of super metroid. And Metroid Prime corruption. Dont know how long but i think for 2 or 3 days. It was a good game with good pointer gameplay but for some reason i didnt finish it. I think i got a new game and made the mistake of playing it before finishing corruption. And the last one was federation force. It was better than i thought and i would have enjoyed it much more if i hadnt tried so hard to beat all the challenges. At least i beat all on the normal difficulty i think. Underrated spinoff in my opinion and i think more games should make us play together and not against each other.
I think "not a big fan of" is bad wording on my part. I dont take the series in a negative way. I just dont really care for it thats all.
Jhena
Switch Friend Code: SW-2361-9475-8611 | Nintendo Network ID: Traumwanderer
Can we not have another DK game after getting two in a row? Or at the very least do something new with the series and not just another level pack sequel like the 17 other level pack sequels on Wii U and 3DS? Tropical Freeze was bad enough with it basically playing the same as Returns. Last thing we need right now is for DK to become like NSMB and overstay its welcome.
By the fact that I'm not wrong obviously. 2D platformers have had a serious problem with being ridiculously formulaic and offering little more than gimmicks in new entries.
Needless to say, they should stay away from DK unless they have something new to add to the formula, 2D platformers have become ridiculously oversaturated at this point. Their talents are better served creating something new.
@Bolt_Strike "By the fact that I'm not wrong obviously. 2D platformers have had a serious problem with being ridiculously formulaic and offering little more than gimmicks in new entries."
There's no fact made by neither Octane or you, however I think he was just joking about it.
When you talk about a genre as a whole, of course there will be a formulaic gameplay. For example: if you play a racing game you have a vehicle, a road and the objective is to finish before others. In a first person shooter, you try to survive and shoot whatever they tell you to shoot. Open world games, RPGs... they all share many things in common when being a part of the same genre. Even between genres they share things.
Heck, pretty much everything is formulaic even outside of games...
What gives them a different essence between them is what defines them as the entry of the series they belong. Donkey kong and Mario games have many similarities since they share the same genre, but also many differences since both series have different characters, different physics, different music, stages, etc. That being said, it's really hard to implement something "new to the formula" simply because it's hard finding the balance of accomplishing that while being faithful to the series and at the same time being significant enough to avoid being called "gimmick" (to begin with, people have different standards).
Maybe 2d platformers have become "ridicuously oversaturated", but we haven't had a 2D donkey kong game every year or anything like that. If you feel that way about the genre, just don't play platformers anymore until you find one that gets your attention.
Also, judging by the fan opinions about that game (Tropical Freeze), it seems you are too burn out of these kind of games or even bitter about them. People did seem to enjoy it a lot and while you can't be right or wrong about how you feel about a game and there's nothing wrong in disagreeing with the popular opinion, the fanbase of the game defines with how they receive the game ( sales and reviews) if the game made things right or wrong, at least in term of direction for the nw entries.
The whole genre doesn't have a problem simply because you are tired of them and maybe it's even in it's best moment and you can't appreciate it. I would love to hear some ideas of how can they prevent what you find about them so formulaic and I really mean it, I'm not making fun of you. It's always nice to hear new, fresh ideas and who knows, it may be seen by someone that gets inspired.
@roy130390 There's a difference between sticking to a particular genre and the degree to which games like NSMB, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze are formulaic. 2D platformers, at a minimum, need to be in 2D and involve jumping or some other type of navigation through obstacles. Beyond that, the sky's the limit. The issue with the recent 2D platformers is that not only are they sticking to the same genre, but they're recycling the same abilities, the same types of levels, the same progression system, the same settings, and the same types of plots. That's a ridiculous extreme by any measure. You're looking for new areas to evolve the formula? That's where you should look first. Introduce new abilities for the characters. Experiment with level design and the level/world progression system. Change conventions about the gameplay that don't need to remain the same. The sandbox Mario games (64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Odyssey) are good examples of how to do this, every entry in that series has been very good at introducing unique abilities, unique settings, different styles of level design, etc.. The 2D platformers could really learn a lot from those games.
@Bolt_Strike Try more: jumping or some kind navigation though obstacles, starting at one point ad reaching the finish as main goal, secondary objectives, enemies, enviromental hazards, hidden items and places, bosses. This is a common thing bewteen platformers and well, how can you change it or improve it? See? it's easier said than done.
Ok, what settings are the same? for example, if in DK games jungles appear, so you can't use it on other games since it's the same? same with ice themed stages? fire stages? Tell me what kind of scenarios can you think of that are different. Also, not only they have to bedifferent bewteen series, they also have to be different between entries in order to be completely fresh, right?
Progression system. Ok, tell me, how can it be different? In those examples of 3D platfomers you gave, how is the level progression different from every other platformer in existence?
Which abilities repeat, how? You'll probably find a similar power in more than one game simply because platformers are an old genre and powers like throwing fire or any kind of power ball are generic yet functional. If every game suffers from this, tell me examples of characters that move like plague knight (which I find quite creative in terms of controls).
"The sandbox Mario games (64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Odyssey)"
Yeah, except that those aren't 2d platformers and one isn't even out. Besides, one can argue that many of those new things founds are simply gimmicks, in fact there are many discussions about it. You are simply establishing your opinion of what's a gimmick and what's a new, interesting ability as the universal standard. Besides, 3D games have way more freedom and yet they struggle with the same things.
If the sky is the limit, and there are many things to be done, surely you can provide some examples. You are saying what to do, just not how, It's like me telling you "get better scores at exams" and when you ask me how I reply: "study more, use better techniques".
What can they learn from those games? Playing with gravity? Did that already. Different abilities? Ok, which ability featured in those game smakes something that isn't similar to one of a platformer (not only Mario or DK games, but every platformer in existence in order to create something new)?. Stage design? This is one of the things players tend to have different opinions.
Snake Pass, if you count that as a platformer, does not have any enemies whatsoever and still manages to challenge you in the same ways as traditional platformers. Also not a necessity.
This is a common thing bewteen platformers and well, how can you change it or improve it? See? it's easier said than done.
Simple. Have multiple goals and ways to progress through the game instead of just going from goal to goal to goal and have enemies interact more with objects and the level design instead of just being moving punching bags, those are two great ways to evolve the 2D formula.
Ok, what settings are the same? for example, if in DK games jungles appear, so you can't use it on other games since it's the same? same with ice themed stages? fire stages? Tell me what kind of scenarios can you think of that are different. Also, not only they have to bedifferent bewteen series, they also have to be different between entries in order to be completely fresh, right?
Grassy levels, ice levels, beach levels, desert levels, mountain levels, and volcano levels are all overused settings in platformers, those could use a rest. And yes jungle levels in DK's case. As for what types of levels they could use, swamp levels,
The other issue with the settings is that they flat out just lack character, they're just generic areas with levels in them which makes them feel arbitrary and boring. Another thing the sandbox platformers did better having their unique settings actually populated with unique characters, creatures, objects, etc.
Progression system. Ok, tell me, how can it be different? In those examples of 3D platfomers you gave, how is the level progression different from every other platformer in existence?
The entire sandbox formula is a different progression system from the linear platformers. Instead of having a singular goal you have multiple goals and you simply need to complete a certain percentage of them to progress.
Really, hybridizing the linear platformers with the sandbox platformers is actually a good opportunity for evolution as well. Create a progression system with one main goal and several smaller goals and you can either head straight towards the end of each level or wander around and explore and you have a nice gameplay style that has the flexibility and freedom of a sandbox with the simplicity and straightforwardness of a linear platformer.
Which abilities repeat, how? You'll probably find a similar power in more than one game simply because platformers are an old genre and powers like throwing fire or any kind of power ball are generic yet functional. If every game suffers from this, tell me examples of characters that move like plague knight (which I find quite creative in terms of controls).
Character movesets primarily. Mario's stuck with the same moves for the last 15 years. Jump, Duck, Ground Pound, Long Jump, Wall Jump, etc. DK has the same Jump, Roll, Hand Slap, Throw. Introduce some new moves. Again, something sandbox platformers are doing that 2D platformers aren't. Even knowing nothing about Odyssey we already know that it's giving Mario new moves, something that the 2D platformers haven't done since Super Mario World.
"The sandbox Mario games (64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Odyssey)"
Yeah, except that those aren't 2d platformers and one isn't even out.
I know they're not, but a lot of what they're doing can translate into 2D platformers. And even with as little as we know about Odyssey, it's still doing more than the likes of NSMB, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze have. That says a lot about the state of linear platformers vs. sandbox platformers.
Besides, one can argue that many of those new things founds are simply gimmicks, in fact there are many discussions about it. You are simply establishing your opinion of what's a gimmick and what's a new, interesting ability as the universal standard. Besides, 3D games have way more freedom and yet they struggle with the same things.
The difference is that when the sandbox platformers introduce a new ability, it's something that sticks throughout the entire game, so they have time to flesh it out and demonstrate its usefulness. The linear platformers tend to have smaller gimmicks that last only a level or a handful of levels and then disappear so they feel arbitrary and pointless.
What can they learn from those games? Playing with gravity? Did that already. Different abilities? Ok, which ability featured in those game smakes something that isn't similar to one of a platformer (not only Mario or DK games, but every platformer in existence in order to create something new)?. Stage design? This is one of the things players tend to have different opinions.
Their sense of flexibility in general. The sandbox platformers are very good at experimenting with the formula without straying too far. They do things like new types of level designs and progression systems and game wide gimmicks that make them feel fresh without feeling like a completely different game.
Anyway yeah, if they don't have any other ideas for DK, they should give it a break. DK can wait until 2020 as their next project.
What I do want to see DK do is go in more of a hybrid platformer/beat em up direction like God of War, the Werehog, and Knack, but I don't expect Retro to work on such a game, if Nintendo ever does that idea I think it might be done by another team.
@Raiko
Exactly, Tropical Freeze is the single greatest platformer I've ever played, and I've played em all.
Who cares about New and different. New is overrated. Half the new directions or new concepts that release are crap, and the other half is almost never better for it. I care about one thing and one thing only- is the game fun. That's it. And DKC Tropical Freeze is one of the most meticulously crafted games (not just platformer... but game) I've seen. Each and every enemy was placed with great thought and care, with layers upon layers able to be peeled back. Most people only appreciate the first layer or two, but when you spend 500 hours in time trials, and you're still discovering better ways to run the course, and you realize that enemy and that ledge was placed there so that someone could utilize it in high skill shortcut which trims half a second off your time... that's when you know the game is great.
There were only 3 original DKC games on the SNES and for 20 years we never saw another one. Then finally, decades later, we got a new entry on the Wii, it was fantastic. So good. All we've seen aside from that is one sequel that was released an entire generation after that, and the first time the series has been in HD. It was better in every way possible.
I truly hope Retro is working on Metroid, simply because they're the only ones that can do that series justice right now that I trust, but if they're not, I pray it's a finale to the DKC series.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
Any hypothetical Donkey Kong Country: Equatorial Storm announcement trailer would get far more dislikes than Federation Force's, and maybe — probably not because DK isn't as popular as CoD and seems to have
more diehard fans — Infinite Warfare.
Unless a worthy Metroid Prime 4 is announced as well, of course.
But there would still be millions of people who would rejoice
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH It's gotten to the point where we're a decade on from the last great Metroid game. That series has just as many fans. And I see much more clambering for Metroid Prime or even a 2D side-scroller than another Donkey Kong in the online gaming space — my own wishes aside.
Something like Shenmue 3 and Final Fantasy 7 Remake — Kickstarted, episodic, or not — are much bigger asks than for Nintendo to at least announce another AAA sequel in their millions-selling series something during the 2010s.
@Haru17
Oh for sure. And even I, at this point and time, want to see Metroid more than DKC from them. All I'm saying is it wouldn't be a bad thing if it did turn out to be DKC Returns 3. It's still in immaculate game that would surely be another masterpiece on Switch.
Granted, just about anything Retro does is sure to be a masterpiece on Switch. They don't make bad games. Which is probably why you see so many people wanting Metroid and so many people wanting Donkey Kong Country... their games make fans for life. And they've made a Retro fan for life out of me with respect to both of those franchises.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH I just want to see the good will generated by a Prime 4 trailer that looks like its translating all of the qualities of that series into 8th gen. That could get us back to mid-2000s levels of un-ironic, neither apologetic nor self-aware hype for the Switch.
" Not really, as sandbox platformers do not have a singular goal."
Well, this is the most common goal, and that's why I also mentioned collecting stuff or defeating a certain enemy (which would also count a reaching a singular goal). Tell me an example of a game that doesn't ask you for this. Also, most games don't have a "singular goal", considering that most feature something to complete.
"Earlier platformers didn't have this, also not a necessity"
I think you missunderstood me. I never said secondary objectives or any of the features mentioned where mandatory, I'm saying they are common and that it's hard to add something without falling in one of those categories. Snake pass asks you to collect and reach a certain point, so it isn't obviously an example of a different game and it's also 3d.
"Simple. Have multiple goals and ways to progress through the game instead of just going from goal to goal to goal and have enemies interact more with objects and the level design instead of just being moving punching bags, those are two great ways to evolve the 2D formula."
... This isn't new, by any means. Many games have different paths, different approaching of obstacles depending on the character you use and the use of the enviroment in favour or against you in 2d platformers. Some are more creative and implement this better. I mean, Little Nightmares just came out and it's been praised for this aspect. Also, it was simple because you gave a superficial answer. It's still on the same category as " make the game more fun by adding more creative enemies and stage design".
"Grassy levels, ice levels, beach levels, desert levels, mountain levels, and volcano levels are all overused settings in platformers, those could use a rest. And yes jungle levels in DK's case. As for what types of levels they could use, swamp levels,
The other issue with the settings is that they flat out just lack character, they're just generic areas with levels in them which makes them feel arbitrary and boring. Another thing the sandbox platformers did better having their unique settings actually populated with unique characters, creatures, objects, etc."
Really? tell me about those those new settings with unique characters, cretures, objects etc. From what I remember, it's pretty much space with quirky characters and objects" and themed galaxy levels which isn't really new. Toy time galaxy is fun, yet it isn't innovative since it's not the first time I've seen a level based on toys. Freezeflame galaxy is fun and yet the combination of fire and ice, and while the combination is nice it's not new either. Deep dark galaxy, ghostly galaxy... I really don't see it but maybe I don't remember something you do
Also, it's not just adding new stages, it's having a harmony and logic between the transition of those stages and bewteen the story you are creating. If you don't mind, tell me settings you haven't seen in any game.
"The entire sandbox formula is a different progression system from the linear platformers. Instead of having a singular goal you have multiple goals and you simply need to complete a certain percentage of them to progress.
Really, hybridizing the linear platformers with the sandbox platformers is actually a good opportunity for evolution as well. Create a progression system with one main goal and several smaller goals and you can either head straight towards the end of each level or wander around and explore and you have a nice gameplay style that has the flexibility and freedom of a sandbox with the simplicity and straightforwardness of a linear platformer."
The same applies here, nothing new. There are many platformers with secondary goals like getting the chaos emeralds in Sonic or finding hidden rooms, levels and items for completionists. Many games require the completion of a certain "percentage" to get to new hidden levels or to find the real ending of the game. What you think about those is an entirely diffrent thing, but different level progression and objectives can be found among platformers, it's just that the genre is more accesible to developers so many new entries are created and many share similar ideas, but that doesn't mean there are exceptions.
"Character movesets primarily. Mario's stuck with the same moves for the last 15 years. Jump, Duck, Ground Pound, Long Jump, Wall Jump, etc. DK has the same Jump, Roll, Hand Slap, Throw. Introduce some new moves. Again, something sandbox platformers are doing that 2D platformers aren't. Even knowing nothing about Odyssey we already know that it's giving Mario new moves, something that the 2D platformers haven't done since Super Mario World."
Well it's kind of hard to make a platformer without jumping and attacking. Which ones of those new added features feels completely revolutionary instead of a gimmick and what made the difference? Besides, you are not arguing that Mario platformers are stale, you are arguing about the 2d platformers being stale, so don't focus on Mario.
"Their sense of flexibility. The sandbox platformers are very good at experimenting with the formula without breaking away from it."
Aren't you sure you simply prefer 3d sandbox platformers and that's it? Personally, I don't see them as fresh as you describe them and I feel that despite having much less competition than 2D platformers, 3d platformers tend to feel too similar. I honestly think it's a matter of preference and that what you consider "innovative" and new in an industry where so many has been done can feel gimmicky to many others, and that it was probably implemented before in a game you didn't even know about.
I also think that being "new and innovative" isn't necesarily good, since you can cover both aspects and still do a boring, bland game. I prefer that they focus on doing the right combinations to make a rich, fun game, even if it's a familair aspect you can see in other games. For me it's not about trying something new, but about doing it better. 2d platforming has quite the competition, and yet, there are games that shine .
Look at hollow knight, maybe it may not be your cup of tea or you haven't tried it yet, but there's a reason why many gamers are loving it and while I don't see they added anything new to the genre. They polished it, they made a great atmosphere, amazing gameplay and beatiful art style and that's how they managed to deliver a unique experience to many players.
I actually do think right now that they are making Metroid Prime 4.
However, my 2nd guess, and this is helped if that Rabbids Mario crossover wtf thing is actually real. I could totally see Retro Studios make a Megaman game. Just because I can't think of a better developer to give a new, big budget title in the series, and Capcom needs some games to promote that new cartoon.
Well, this is the most common goal, and that's why I also mentioned collecting stuff or defeating a certain enemy (which would also count a reaching a singular goal). Tell me an example of a game that doesn't ask you for this. Also, most games don't have a "singular goal", considering that most feature something to complete.
You mean the bonus collectibles (Star Medals, Puzzle Pieces, etc.)? The problem with those is that typically they have little to no impact on your progression in linear platformers so they hardly count as an extra goal (the only games that really did were 3D Land/3D World, and even then they didn't do it right because having a collection requirement in addition to the main goal cancels out the benefits of both progression systems). By multiple goals I'm referring to multiple ways to progress in the game, such as having multiple exits in a level or multiple collectibles in a sandbox as opposed to having a singular endpoint in the level.
Snake pass asks you to collect and reach a certain point, so it isn't obviously an example of a different game and it's also 3d.
You're missing the point of what makes Snake Pass different from other platformers, it's different because you navigate the level by coiling around objects instead of jumping. A game doesn't need to check every box to be unique, it just needs to do one original thing.
... This isn't new, by any means. Many games have different paths, different approaching of obstacles depending on the character you use and the use of the enviroment in favour or against you in 2d platformers. Some are more creative and implement this better. I mean, Little Nightmares just came out and it's been praised for this aspect. Also, it was simple because you gave a superficial answer. It's still on the same category as " make the game more fun by adding more creative enemies and stage design".
In level? Maybe. But as far as level order? Not so much, that only exists in sandbox games where progression is collection based instead of level completion based. Linear platformers have always forced you to complete levels in a specific order for most if not all of the game.
Really? tell me about those those new settings with unique characters, cretures, objects etc. From what I remember, it's pretty much space with quirky characters and objects" and themed galaxy levels which isn't really new. Toy time galaxy is fun, yet it isn't innovative since it's not the first time I've seen a level based on toys. Freezeflame galaxy is fun and yet the combination of fire and ice, and while the combination is nice it's not new either. Deep dark galaxy, ghostly galaxy... I really don't see it but maybe I don't remember something you do
You're not going to see every game do a completely original setting, that's a ridiculous expectation. But there's a difference between reusing something that's been done before and reusing something that's been done to death.
As far as the characters though, the Piantas, the Nokis, the Lumas, and the various other creatures in Sunshine and Galaxy add a sense of lore and character to the areas they inhabit and make the levels feel more alive.
Also, it's not just adding new stages, it's having a harmony and logic between the transition of those stages and bewteen the story you are creating. If you don't mind, tell me settings you haven't seen in any game.
Harmony and logic? Not really. Linear platforming levels tend to be fairly haphazard and not related to any storyline or real world logic. It's just levels for the sake of levels.
The same applies here, nothing new. There are many platformers with secondary goals like getting the chaos emeralds in Sonic or finding hidden rooms, levels and items for completionists. Many games require the completion of a certain "percentage" to get to new hidden levels or to find the real ending of the game. What you think about those is an entirely diffrent thing, but different level progression and objectives can be found among platformers, it's just that the genre is more accesible to developers so many new entries are created and many share similar ideas, but that doesn't mean there are exceptions.
Those games still require you to reach the end of the level though. The system I'm proposing does not, you can progress through the game either by reaching the end of the level or by collecting items. To give you a better idea, let's say you have a Mario game where you unlock new levels by collecting Power Stars. You could wander around and explore Power Stars to unlock the next level, but you could also proceed through a linear path and collect a Grand Star at the end of the level worth 5 Power Stars. So if you want to play it like a linear platformer you could simply get to the end and collect the Grand Star and unlock the next level, or you could explore the level and collect the regular Power Stars, or anything in between depending on the player preference. The genre has never really done something like that, it's either been one or the other.
Which ones of those new added features feels completely revolutionary instead of a gimmick and what made the difference?
FLUDD and the gravity mechanics. FLUDD gave you an unprecedented amount of freedom in how you navigated the level design and let you pull off jumps you couldn't otherwise, and the gravity mechanics opened up entirely new styles of level design and changed the way you think about and navigate levels.
Besides, you are not arguing that Mario platformers are stale, you are arguing about the 2d platformers being stale, so don't focus on Mario.
Mario was an example. You can apply the same logic to other platformers. DK as I already mentioned had the same moves across several games with the only new addition being the ability to climb in Returns/Tropical Freeze. Yoshi has only really been able to Jump, Ground Pound, Eat, and Throw Eggs in every Yoshi game. Kirby's gameplay has mainly focused on copy abilities, but Planet Robobot is the only recent 2D platformer I've seen that really does anything new and creative with the Robobot Armor.
I also think that being "new and innovative" isn't necesarily good, since you can cover both aspects and still do a boring, bland game. I prefer that they focus on doing the right combinations to make a rich, fun game, even if it's a familair aspect you can see in other games. For me it's not about trying something new, but about doing it better. 2d platforming has quite the competition, and yet, there are games that shine .
Thing is the game is going to be boring and bland regardless if you just endlessly recycle things over and over again. New and fun go hand in hand.
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