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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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rallydefault

@EvilLucario
Yea, they must have research showing it still remains profitable to produce physical media. But I bet the margins are getting thinner by the day.

I assume the new Xbox and PS still have optical drives? I'm honestly not that excited about them, so I haven't been reading much. The Xbox in particular is really just a PC that you're paying an upcharge on the hardware-to-power ratio; vast majority of Microsoft's games are playable on PC and Xbox these days.

rallydefault

Ralizah

Things might change this year with everyone shut into their houses, but most big games still sell better physically. Even if digital is a HUGE part of the equation now, no manufacturer in their right mind would shut themselves off from physical game sales at this point in time. Maybe in a generation or so, when the kids who are growing up with tablets and smartphones start purchasing home consoles themselves.

Edited on by Ralizah

Playing depressing games alone in my cold, dark room <3

EvilLucario

I definitely think this year will drastically speed up digital adoption due to everything going on. More and more people will finally cave in and buy digitally, decide if that fits them better overall and go from there. Meanwhile, you won't have as much of the reverse due to shortages and delayed shipments on physical media.

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MsJubilee

I, for one, welcome our Digital-only overlords.

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link3710

@rallydefault well, one thing to note is that gone are the days where physical runs would be so large they'd last for years. Now, it's far more common for physical titles to run out of stock, and multiple print runs to occur in some cases. Physical is now usually more catered to people who buy in the first few months, and also gives them shelf space (still an important tool for discoverability) while digital is their long term solution.

link3710

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JaxonH

@link3710
My thoughts exactly.

@rallydefault
I actually think the Series X is an amazing bang for buck as far as PC-equivalent power goes. At 12.2 TF, that comes awful close to the 13.4 TF offered by the 2080 ti. And with console optimization it will likely match results pound for pound. The only difference being, a PC with a 2080 ti will run $2k minimum.

And it still has the convenience of being a console, the new instant suspend feature, etc. for someone who’s looking to play modern AAA games with cutting edge graphics, the Series X and PS5 (but more so the Series X) will be a fantastic option.

Now, me personally, I’m not really interested, because 1 I already have a PC that outperforms it (even if it did cost a fortune in comparison), 2 most of Microsoft’s games are on PC now and even Switch, and we’re even seeing some of Sony’s games make the jump one way or another (Horizon Zero Dawn coming to STEAM, Persona 5 playable via RPCS3, etc), but more importantly 3 that PC can map gyro to any game, and I simply refuse to play games without gyro in them now. I can’t stand using the right analog stick without gyro when we have an alternative that’s light years ahead and makes dual analog alone feel like a barbarous relic by comparison.

Still, it’s probably going to be the best value purchase on the market as far as cost/power ratio is concerned. And I acknowledge that. It’s just that power (and even power accounting for cost) isn’t the only factor to consider. And certainly not the decision-making factor for me. Until they incorporate gyro in their controllers and it gets used in all games with aiming, they could literally hand those new consoles out for free and I still wouldn’t play them.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: Xenoblade, Bioshock, Borderlands 2, XCOM 2, Shantae Seven Sirens, Bug Fables
PC: Gears Tactics

MOST EXCITED FOR 2020
NS: Paper Mario Origami King, Trails of Cold Steel 3, Bravely Default II
PC: Cyberpunk 2077

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gcunit

@JaxonH Has the Series One X launch price been announced?

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rallydefault

@JaxonH
It's definitely powerful (Series X), but console-to-PC is never an apples/apples comparison like people try to do on paper. The most crucial part for gaming, the gpu, is where the difference lies that isn't always communicated on paper. The Series X is not gonna have a full-size Radeon gpu just stuck inside it; no console does. All console gpus are custom jobs that are nowhere near the full-fat versions you buy for your PC. It's gonna be a "custom" RDNA2 gpu, which is great, but it's not gonna be like the RDNA2 gpus you're gonna be able to buy for PC in the fall. When those puppies come out, you're gonna get the usual: a low-price, a mid-tier (which will be closest to the consoles but still more powerful), and a high-tier that will blow the new consoles out of the water. And like you said, a 2080 already outperforms these new consoles, and that's already been on the PC market. In all actuality, a 2060 overclocked can probably match or even outdo these new consoles, and those can be had on sale for under 300 bucks from time to time.

So yea, I have a Radeon 5700 in my PC right now, and you COULD be like well, that thing costs 300 bucks, and these consoles are only gonna cost 500-600 bucks (which they are, I guarantee), so there's like half the cost. Except you won't mention how my 5700 in my PC can be overclocked and is the full version of itself and not some custom, scaled-down (however slightly) gpu crammed into a console. (And just to note, "scaled down" can take many forms: literally/physically in the size of the card, removing bits of memory, relays, etc. This goes back to your conversation about heat dispersion, which is more a concern in cramped console boxes than large PC towers.)

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

FragRed

I think we will see. a lot of changes happen with this new console generation. Physical won't outright die - even if the big publishers effectively pull out I think the likes of Limited Run Games will be enough to keep it alive just for a smaller audience.

I also expect to see a lot more vague release dates. By that I mean more of what EA did with Anthem where depending on what version you pre-ordered and whether you had EA Access, depends on how early or late you can play the game. I see that becoming the new pre-order bonus as special editions I also think will by and large become a thing of the past at least in physical presence. Not sure if it's just me but it does seem that there are much less of them now days than there used to be. Remember when COD used to do them? I don't think they sell that well in an age of everything being digital and people wanting to have less clutter.

I do expect to see prices on digital games go up, something that is already happening at least here in the UK. As physical sales become less important, there won't be a need to keep some kind of price comparison so they'll be free to up the initial launch price because they know damn well people may moan but ultimately just buy the game day one anyway.

And obviously a much bigger focus on smaller unfinished online only games like Anthem tried to be where some kind of roadmap is promised but only of the game sells well out the gate. Too much money to be made from these types of games even if most fail, and you don't need to worry about hiring as many writers and loads of actors etc that are required for single player games.

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rallydefault

@FragRed
For sure. The "future" as the big boys see it (profit-wise) is these games-as-services like Anthem, Division 2, Destiny 2, blahblah the list goes on. Release something that's 50% finished and maybe try to garner initial goodwill by only charging 40-50 bucks instead of 60, but then charge for 20-dollar expansions numerous times (as well as microtransactions) as you work over the course of years to actually complete the game.

rallydefault

FragRed

@rallydefault It definitely is a scary thought. Wasn't it Ubisoft that outright said this was their aim for all future triple A games? Though I find it incredibly funny that EA failed so badly with Anthem but then succeeded with the monster hit Fallen Order, as apparently according to them no one wants single player experiences any more.

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JaxonH

@gcunit
I dont think any have been announced, but at most they're $600. I suspect they're gonna surprise people at $500 though. But I'd prepare mentally for $600 just in case. Better to be pleasantly surprised than unpleasantly disappointed.

@rallydefault
Ya, they will be more powerful. For sure. Even my PC is more powerful. But the argument isnt that theyll be more powerful than PC, but rather, that you won't be able to match the same power for the price, even after the next round of GPUs come out and prices fall. Even at $600, theres no way any PC built ground up could match it. I'm sure Digital Foundry will try to build one and determine the equivalent cost at some point.

The 2080 ti GPU alone is $1100. Even after it drops to $600 when new GPUs release, that's still more than the entire console costs. Not even accounting for solid state drive, housing, power supply, RAM, motherboard, CPU and fan, case fans, optical drive... even at bare minimum you're looking at another $500+ ($75 RAM, $75 MB, $75 PSU, $100 housing/fans, $100 CPU, $100 SSD, skipping the optical drive entirely).

Again, that doesnt convince me it's worth it. But for alot of others who can't really scratch together more than $500-600 on a gaming device, and they don't care about gyro (poor souls) or any of the auxiliary benefits of PC (which there are many) and are only looking to get the best gaming experience for their money in a graphical sense, they're better off buying the Series X.

I still advocate it's better to save another $400 and go all in on a $1000 gaming PC, just because the gyro is more than worth it, full button config for every game, expandable SSDs without limit of size or quantity, full GameCube/Wii/PSP/PS2 emulation (and even PS3 with games like Persona 5), multiple controller options, etc.

But I understand not everyone can afford that, and even 600 is a challenge for them.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: Xenoblade, Bioshock, Borderlands 2, XCOM 2, Shantae Seven Sirens, Bug Fables
PC: Gears Tactics

MOST EXCITED FOR 2020
NS: Paper Mario Origami King, Trails of Cold Steel 3, Bravely Default II
PC: Cyberpunk 2077

Jesus is Lord.

rallydefault

@JaxonH
Right. I'm just saying it's not an apples-to-apples comparison because of the trimmed down version of lots of the hardware that goes into a console. It's not fair to go on Newegg and price a cpu and gpu and then compare that to a console, because you're working with moderately different components, you know?

For things that aren't much different like storage drives and RAM, console companies get massive discounts on those parts because they're buying in bulk. So yea, ultimately you're right in that building a PC yourself will usually cost more.

But I'd be willing to bet I could build something for around 600 bucks that could come darn close to these new consoles. You can get a decent case for under 50 bucks these days, RAM for right around that if you stay at 3200 (which is still by far the norm) and 16 gigs, power unit for under a 100 bucks, cpu for 150ish, gpu for 200ish, SSD for 50ish, and bingo-bango there's your system that can give one of these new consoles a run for its money.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

Grumblevolcano

@FragRed I think we'll see more subscription services too. Game Pass Ultimate and EA Access already exists and are already a big focus of Microsoft and EA respectively but I think we'll see stuff like Uplay+ expand to consoles, NSO gets more expensive, Sony does their own subscription service for PS5 and overall there's more game specific subscriptions along the lines of Mario Kart Tour Gold Pass.

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JaxonH

@rallydefault
Mmmm... SSD for 50 seems very low. 1 TB is almost always $100+. So let’s go with that. So an extra $50 there. And while a few cases for $50 do exist, only at the bare minimum quality. But, I’ll grant you that because hey, if it works it works.

And you forgot the motherboard. That’s another $100.

The biggest stretch, I think, is the $200 GPU. Even a 5700 XT costs $350 and is less than 10TF. You’d really need a 2080 Super for a good comparison, and that costs a lot more than $200. In fact, I think the results will match that of the 2080 ti after everything is said and done just because consoles tend to get a little more bang for buck due to optimization. But I’m willing to concede a 2080 Super would be close enough.

At the end of the day, I think you’d need $950 to truly start to see equivalent results. Your $600. Plus an extra $50 for SSD, an extra $100 for motherboard that wasn’t mentioned, an extra $200 for GPU- and that’s assuming you’ve waited until 2021 when prices get slashed from $700 to $400. It adds up. Trying to build one now, would be more like $1250 (and btw, this is also ignoring the optical drive, which should really be included if you want to do the best comparison).

It’s just one of the advantages of consoles. As you said, they buy in massive bulk so they get parts way cheaper than you or I could ever buy them for. On top of that they sign contracts for the CPU/GPUs that gets them massive deals, and then they sell for a loss on top of it, counting on software sales. It’s impossible for you and I to compete with that, even buying parts wholesale.

So there’s 2 advantages to console that will always be prominent- convenience factor (which will be even more pronounced with that instant suspend Series X boasts), and cost/power ratio. Obviously there’s way more than 2 advantages PC has over console, plus, it’s not even worth mentioning because you know I’m all in on PC now once I “saw the light”. But I think it’s important to acknowledge the benefits consoles have (at least, for the uninitiated gyro-naive gamer). My friend at work just bought my old PC because I have a new one now, and I gave it to him for $500, despite the fact it cost $850 to build. And it was about on par with the Xbox one X.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: Xenoblade, Bioshock, Borderlands 2, XCOM 2, Shantae Seven Sirens, Bug Fables
PC: Gears Tactics

MOST EXCITED FOR 2020
NS: Paper Mario Origami King, Trails of Cold Steel 3, Bravely Default II
PC: Cyberpunk 2077

Jesus is Lord.

rallydefault

@JaxonH
Whoops, yep, forgot mobo lol yea add 100 bucks for that if you want something mid-tier, 70ish if you're ok with bare bones.

Case for under 50 is no prob. The one I'm using now was like 40 bucks. Yea, the metal is a bit thinner than some bases I've had in the past, but a case is literally just...a case lol Just a mounting point for your mobo and fans (though you want to make sure the case has good reviews for usb ports).

For SSD I'm only going 250-500 gigs. I'm big on cloud storage for literally anything other than games. My new rig only has a 500 gig M.2 SSD for my Windows and online games and a 2TB harddrive for single-player games that I don't really care if they load fast.

For gpu I don't want a 5700, 2060 or higher. I'm only aiming to come relatively close to these new consoles. I think you can get that with even a 5500 XT. Just search for them on Newegg and you can get them on sale under 200 bucks. They're the budget end of AMD's new line of RDNA gpus. If you're really thrifty and good at sales, coupons, I bet you'll start seeing non-super 2060s come down to the 250-dollar range by the fall.

With those parts and some overclocking on ram, cpu, gpu, you can get a pretty similar experience.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

JaxonH

@rallydefault
I get what you're saying, I just think if you're going to compare it should be apples to apples as much as possible.

The best comparison will be exact same SSD size, exact same GPU power (or closest to), exact same RAM, exact same CPU power (or closest to), etc.

Obviously if you start trimming in other areas (smaller SSD, less powerful GPU, etc) you can stay reasonably close while cutting costs a fair bit, but when assessing the cost/power value it's appropriate to be as equivalent as possible. Otherwise it's just not a fair comparison.

PLAYING
NS: Xenoblade, Bioshock, Borderlands 2, XCOM 2, Shantae Seven Sirens, Bug Fables
PC: Gears Tactics

MOST EXCITED FOR 2020
NS: Paper Mario Origami King, Trails of Cold Steel 3, Bravely Default II
PC: Cyberpunk 2077

Jesus is Lord.

rallydefault

@JaxonH
If you wanna do exactly the same comparison, then yea, you can't build a PC for the same money. You're not buying in bulk to get discounts on the ram and storage like console makers do, and you're also going up against custom cpus and gpus that you'll never quite know the monetary value of because they'll never be put on the market as standalone things.

The X Series gpu is shaping up to look very good. though, I will say that. I'm reading that it's probably gonna be 12% faster than a 5700, which will translate to either a handful more fps at 4k or allowing for higher graphics at 4k, which is a big deal when this gen is gonna be all about making 4k gaming the norm.

I don't know. I'm not psyched about the new consoles at all. I'm just staying in my PC/Nintendo world. Only thing I can think of is if Sony goes back to their roots and comes out with some insane exclusives - then I'll consider a PS5.

Edited on by rallydefault

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