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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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JaxonH

@ReaderRagfish
I suppose it's different when I'm not forced to do homework and can learn at my own pace. When you're forced to do something regardless of whether you feel like it or not, it becomes more of a chore. Especially with how many problems they assign in school. But, I get it. Proficiency takes practice and there's no short cutting that.

Subtraction same as addition except order matters (obviously). Worth noting anyways. It's the quotient one that I hate, g(x)/h(x) = h(x)g'(x) - h'(x)g(x)/h(x)^2

Chain rule pisses me off though. That's the one I struggle to visualize because each derivative is with respect to a different variable. I did some practice problems and I got it for simple functions where the function itself was squared and I just used substitution, but I can already tell that one's going to hang me up on more complicated problems.

And yes, please send a link if you don't mind. That would be great actually

Edited on by JaxonH

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ReaderRagfish

@JaxonH https://openstax.org/details/books/calculus-volume-1
Here's the textbook for calculus 1, which covers pretty much everything you've talked about so far. There's the download PDF button for an exact copy of the print version, or you can just click view online for a version formatted to be more web friendly. The rest of the books are available on the same website, and since this is the website of the company that made the books, it's 100% legal as long as you don't try to sell them.

The chain rule is one of the most important things to learn. Be prepared for some very complicated problems with it, they're not gonna let you move on without mastering it. Integrals of chain rule functions are even harder to visualize than the derivatives. The first time we had a problem like that, I must have stared at it for 10 minutes without any idea of what to do. Even after the professor went over it on the board, I was still totally lost.

Quotient rule is also annoying, especially when you're in the middle of a complex derivative and have to do it multiple times in addition to other stuff. You'll get used to it though, like it or not.

The funny thing is, the actual calculus part of calculus isn't really that bad. It's always the algebra that ends up being hard.

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EvilLucario

Remember guys, math is important so you learn how to properly budget your spending on games and stuff.

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AlohaPizzaJack

I’m more geared towards statistical and budget maths. Side effect of management roles, right? 😉

@EvilLucario This is the most important use of math.

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JaxonH

@EvilLucario
I developed equations as a function of money spent on each system, to see the multi-variable effect of spending X amount on Switch and Y on Xbox One and Z on PS4, etc, and set the equation equal to my budget. Best to stick with 2 variables though- Switch (s) and all other platforms (p) Easier to graph and can then break the other down into PS and Xbox.

Can also use algebra to figure out how many games at each price point you can buy on a given budget. 30w + 40x + 50y + 60z = B where B is your budget. Or simply 40x + 60y = B which covers most games.

Good times 😂

@ReaderRagfish
Thanks!

Like they say. Students don't fail the calculus, they fail the algebra and trig.

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DarthNocturnal

@JaxonH

Eh, algebra was just frustrating. Even when explained. I was told I was good at math, but I never believed it. Still don't. Basic stuff? I'm OK there, and maybe a few more intricate things (a refresher course might be needed, in a worst case scenario). But after a certain point, it was just a nightmare. A nightmare with letters where numbers should be.

@EvilLucario

Too much subtraction, not enough addition.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

JaxonH

@DarthNocturnal
Lol I was talking to a coworker today about algebra and she said something similar. Once you understand the concept it's actually super simple. A letter (say x) is just a substitution for a ? for an unknown number. What unknown number (?) plus 3 = 10? You could write ? + 3 = 10 Obviously the answer is 7. But there's a logical process you can follow that will give you the answer even when it's not so easy. It all revolves around that equals sign. If two things are equal they are the same, and in order to stay the same, anything done to one must be done to the other. 8 apples = 8 apples. If I add 2 apples on the right, I need to add 2 apples on the left to keep the two apple piles equal. So now I have 10 apples = 10 apples. I can multiply each side by 2 (20 apples = 20 apples) divide by 4 (5 apples = 5 apples) or even Square them (25 apples = 25 apples). But as long as I perform equal operations to both sides, they will always be equal.

So to solve ? + 3 = 10 all you have to do is isolate the ? on one side, so that it equals whatever is on the other side. And we see +3 has been added to our ? So if we subtract -3 we're right back to the ? amount, whatever it is. Because if you add 3 to anything, and take 3 away, you're right back where you started. So you subtract 3 on the left to get rid of the +3, then subtract 3 on the right (because we must do the same thing on both sides of the = sign to keep them equal).

? + 3 (-3) = 10 (-3) which becomes ? + 0 = 7 which becomes ? = 7 The answer is 7. We just don't use ? because you can have more than one unknown, and you have to tell the difference between unknown amount A and unknown amount B (hence why we use A and B, or other letters, because different letters mean different unknown numbers). Typically you'd write the original problem as x + 3 = 10

Not so bad once you understand how it works.

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into math class 😁 Just thought I might be able to shed some light on a murky topic for you.

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ReaderRagfish

Untitled

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Still waiting for Atlus to make Snowboard Kids 3

Vee_Flames

Oh look, we’re talking about math now. I’m pursuing a math minor (for fun, I might add) and right now I’m nearing the end of a third-semester calculus class. So yeah, I’d say mathematics is pretty fascinating to me.

I think I prefer the concept of the derivatives, though. For one, they’re much easier to evaluate than the integral. Also, derivatives are used in more common applications than integrals, since things that occur in the world are usually not constant (derivatives are used to evaluate how fast something is changing, in the simplest of words). With that said, integrals shine best when doing math in dimensions higher than 2D, though. If you think finding the area under any curve is fantastic, just wait until you start finding the volume under 3D surfaces. Pretty fun stuff actually, and it’s much better AND convenient than using single integrals (the ones used to find area under curves) to evaluate volumes.

I do think statistics can be a bit boring, although I won’t deny it provides powerful tools for analyzing data. The best part of statistics happens at the end of the analysis of data, which is usually after slogging through repetitive and boring procedures. At least I try to learn the concepts, though. Anything to get that mathematics minor!

EDIT: LOL, in what world is it that the algebra is harder than the calculus? I’ve done math all my life and I’m pretty sure it’s the other way around. Once you figure out the calculus, you end up with the algebra that should be easy to solve.

Edited on by Vee_Flames

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DarthNocturnal

@JaxonH

Ha, no worries. A refresher every now and then doesn't hurt (much).

@ReaderRagfish

≥Learning Company

Wow, that takes me back... although, I only played the Super Solver games (and a Super Seeker game or two). Fun times.

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JaxonH

@Vee_Flames
I don't think anyone disputes Calculus is hard. But it is said by professors their students, usually when making a mistake, they make a mistake with the algebra or trig rather than the calculus itself.

Statistics and probability is actually part of my job. Working with normal distributions and standard deviations, means, sampling distributions, probability of falling certain standard deviations away from the mean, students t test of means, test of variance and test of proportions, regression analysis, analysis of variance (usually via Gage R&R) and design of experiment, etc. Not an expert by any means, but I learned enough for what I needed to know pertaining to the job. I have Minitab software at work though and it's amazing for working with data.

And wouldn't an integral for volume under a surface work the same way as an integral for area under a curve? Just would be a higher order polynomial? I figured Riemann integrals work for just about anything, although I was reading about the Leibniz integral or whatever it's called. Not sure how to do that one. But ya, if you have the equation for the 3D surface, couldn't you just integrate that function for the volume?

Edited on by JaxonH

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BrainOfGrimlock

Well I was going to come in here and say 'having seen Eevee trailing Pikachu in the download charts I ended up throwing some more money at Game Freak' but somehow I feel like I'd be trampling all over a special moment?

I wasn't going to touch them tbh but those charts, positive feedback, a need to play something 'low effort', gen 1 'mons and a niece newly obsessed with 'mons (and specifically Eevee) have all contributed to yet another hole in the wallet.

Now... back to the math?

BrainOfGrimlock

Vee_Flames

@JaxonH Mm, I don't think making mistakes more often in algebra is necessarily equal to higher difficulty. I do tend to make mistakes in my algebra more than calculus, but the concept of algebra is inherently simpler to understand than calculus concepts, I feel. What usually matters when it comes to mathematics is understanding the underlying concept of any math topic. That's how I tutored my students when I was still a tutor.

Also, I'll be taking an upper-division statistics class next semester, and I plan to use Minitab alongside Microsoft Excel and Kaleidograph (which allows you to fit a custom curve onto a set of data, pretty neat). I've taken a class that deals with most of the statistics concepts you mentioned (I've forgotten the more advanced ones like hypothesis testing and whatnot, hopefully this class will bring a much needed refresher lol), so hopefully I'm on track to becoming the statistics whiz I think I should be... Minitab looks like a more functional Excel lol, but if you could fit custom curves that would be baller. I don't think you can, though...?

The concept for finding the volume under a surface is inherently similar to that of finding the area under a curve. For the latter, you break up the area under the curve into many (literally infinite) rectangles and sum up the areas of the rectangles by finding the limit as the number of rectangles approaches infinity (so basically the Riemann sum). For the former, you break up the space under the surface into many cuboids and sum up the volumes of the cuboids. Only difference now is that you need to perform a double integral, which takes into account changes in both y and x under the surface. So then you'll need to integrate the equation of the 3D surface, which is usually a function of both x and y, twice with respect to each variable one at a time. It sounds complicated, but it isn't too bad and makes a whole lot of sense once you wrap your head around it. So there's more to it than just integrating the equation of the surface, but at the very least it's easier to understand than triple integrals, which apparently help you find the "hypervolume under a hypersolid" or something like that lolol. At that point, it's no more about areas or volumes, but more of adding up stuff that involves multiple variables.

Edited on by Vee_Flames

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Knuckles-Fajita

@HobbitGamer Same. Always been better at data analysis, statistics, economics and management than actual arithmetic.

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Octane

@JaxonH Don't get me started on the quotient rule

I think a big issue is that student are often told to memorise these "rules" without knowing how and why they work. I remember being stuck on binomial functions for the longest time, and it wasn't until years later I discovered Pascal's triangle, and more importantly, why they relate to each other. Had I known that when I was in high school, it would've been a lot easier.

Octane

toiletduck

JaxonH wrote:

@EvilLucario
I developed equations as a function of money spent on each system, to see the multi-variable effect of spending X amount on Switch and Y on Xbox One and Z on PS4, etc, and set the equation equal to my budget. Best to stick with 2 variables though- Switch (s) and all other platforms (p) Easier to graph and can then break the other down into PS and Xbox.

LOL, never figured you were on an actual budget, seeing that you're buying most of the Switch games both digital and physical

toiletduck

JaxonH

@Octane
I love Pascals Triangle. Its perfect for remembering those numbers. Still have to memorize the Binomial Equation though. I simplify it to P(x)=[n x] p^x q^n-x (n choose x should be vertical). The ones they have in the textbooks are too long. Shorthand does wonders

@Vee_Flames
That makes perfect sense. Like, the 2D slice of the function at Z=0 then changes as Z changes. That's interesting. I'll need to read up on that.

Also, Minitab is great, it's just not really made for fitting curves. But it does have hypothesis testing which is baked into practically every test it does. Excel is kinda needed in conjunction cause it's way better for sorting and prepping data before copying into Minitab. But ya, I love it. Practically speaking, for the job, it does everything we need it to. Although maybe if you work in medical you'd want a more rigorous stat software geared toward blind studies and what not.

@toiletduck
Lol ya even I have a budget (although the math was more for kicks). When I stopped buying (most) games for other platforms that got converted into funding Switch digital (only for the top games tho).

Edited on by JaxonH

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AlohaPizzaJack

We’re all such wonderfully gifted nerds 😂

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gcunit

BrainOfGrimlock wrote:

Well I was going to come in here and say 'having seen Eevee trailing Pikachu in the download charts I ended up throwing some more money at Game Freak' but somehow I feel like I'd be trampling all over a special moment?

I wasn't going to touch them tbh but those charts, positive feedback, a need to play something 'low effort', gen 1 'mons and a niece newly obsessed with 'mons (and specifically Eevee) have all contributed to yet another hole in the wallet.

Ha! I spent last night trying to resist the hype with the help of Pokemon Art Academy...

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Untitled

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PikPi

The Pokemon game is surprisingly engaging. And trainer battles aren't as easy as I had anticipated. It's still pretty simple especially when you have 2 people, but I have to give it kudos for surprising me. Plus co op is just plain fun even though most of it is just catching the pokemon.

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