Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@link3710 Sure !

But saying that you don't feel the difference when you play Doom on Switch after the PC/PS4/ONE version... It's just a lie... It doesn't mean that the result on Switch is not great for the system, it is, but everything is downgraded (which is normal)... ^^

@link3710 I honestly don't think that many people really see that big a difference in gameplay unless its extreme. I think people just want to sound more serious about gaming.

People get so melodramatic about framerates honestly. I won't lie, I am 100% like that where I take the piss on Xbox/PS4 having inferior performance compared to PC all the time. But at the end of the day, 30fps is still plenty playable for almost every genre except fighters (platformers like 3D Land and Samus Returns are 30fps and barely anyone complained, and shooters have almost always been 30fps when they got popular with Halo). So in reality it isn't much of a problem.

I own Doom on PC with maxed graphics/144fps and Doom on Switch is still a great, fun time despite lower resolutions and framerate. I'm sensitive to framerate dips, but Doom on Switch is no skin off my back and I can jump between 144fps and 30fps just fine. Jarring of course, but fine.

From my perspective, it's less forgivable for a PS4 game to have issues. It's a TV-tethered device, so it does nothing for me that a good PC wouldn't. It's literally like a worse home console for those of us who play the majority of our PC games with controllers.

Switch is weaker, obviously, but it allows me a degree of freedom that none of my other home console/PC hardware does. I'm willing to put up with some performance issues to get a non-TV-tethered version of a game.

So, yeah, I'm more likely to highlight performance issues in a PS4 game.

@EvilLucario Reminder that the "greatest game of all time" on N64 ran at... what, 20fps pretty much all the time? That was one janky game. Same with SotC on PS2.

Now if a game dips below 30fps occasionally, people whine about how "unplayable" it is. ESPECIALLY if it's on a Nintendo device.

@Cobalt
see a difference

Sure, you can notice a difference. The question is how much, and how big of an effect that has on entertainment and enjoyment.

The answer is very little.

I play Fire Emblem Warriors at 30fps and actually thought it was the 60fps mode.

As long as there is the illusion of smooth motion (which 30fps MORE than accomplishes), that's 95%, and anything beyond is only adding that last 5%. Gyro and playing anywhere add far more than 5% to entertainment and enjoyment.

Not to mention, 30fps (or even 20-25fps) never seems to be a big issue when it's a PS4 game like Assassin's Creed or Monster Hunter World or Dark Souls back on PS3. But as soon as a Switch game is 30fps, all of a sudden it's this "night and day difference" that's a "dealbreaker". Nonsense I say. MH World was perfectly fine at 30fps, just like MHGU is perfectly fine at 30fps, and even DOOM and Wolfenstein 2 are fine at 30fps. They're 95%. Having 100% is better, undoubtedly, but it's not even remotely enough to counter the triple value of 3 versions of a game in 1, with gyro (which actually IS a make or break issue in some cases) and a versatile offering of various controller options.

most games would not benefit from 60fps anyway, realy only very high action games like fighting games might benefit, but between the usual 720-1080p (on the tv) usually knocks out any need anyway, any "lag", skipping or stuttering is due the game programming, not the system's failure/flaws

@Ralizah Yeah no one gives a crap about technical stuff unless it's REALLY impeding on the performance. OoT was a consistent 20fps so people got used to it right from the get-go.

@jhewitt3476 Actually there are a lot of games that will benefit from 60fps. Hell, all of them do. Platformers are at their best at 60fps. Shooters are even better when you go beyond 60fps, like 144fps or even 240fps, which is why being able to support these arbitrary framerates is key to modern shooters nowadays. Fighting games speak for themselves. Action games like Bayonetta definitely are better at 60fps. Even a slow-paced game like Dark Souls (which is less about twitchy reactions and more reading the enemy and reacting accordingly) is better at 60fps for better reactions, even if it's perfectly playable and enjoyable at 30fps.

Even things like RPGs are better at 60fps because of more smooth animations feeling more pleasant. Compare Pokemon Generation 4 to Pokemon Generation 5's battle menus, where Gen 5's menus flow so much quicker at 60fps. (I'm aware that the speed of battles were increased with Gen 5, but that speed has no bearing on inherent framerate) Thing is, 60fps still doesn't really make it THAT much better for those genres. Same with open world, where 60fps gets in the way of a big open world, at least on consoles which is why pretty much every open world game targets 30fps. Odyssey's levels aren't really THAT big, for example.

I really wishi could love Mega man 11. I love the music, the controls, the style, the mood, even the levels. But the bosses and the deeply antiquated lives, checkpoints, and game overs just ruin what could have been more enjoyable. Making it worse, it seems likea game rooted in memorizing level layout and enemy positions and reacting at lightning speed to a thousand projectiles all at once all while platforming. Even on noob mode it's to frustrating if easy. All my complaints with hollow Knight apparently apply to mn11 to. Easily my two least favorite games of the last several years.

@NEStalgia Interesting, I have been seeing some mixed reactions to Mega Man 11. I saw, I think it's the bounce level and thought it looked pretty bad in design. What put me off this game right away was the steep asking price of £25 for what I understand to be a fairly short game.

That's pretty much what makes a Mega Man game. The games are about mastering the levels and learning patterns of the enemies. It wouldn't be Mega Man without it. I'm actually surprised how much the game feels like an old school Mega Man. I thought they would water it down a little.

Personally, I'm really enjoying it, but for some reason I like games that torture me. I only beat two bosses so far, haven't even reached the other ones.

@JaxonH

It's insane how you transform things into something else...

I repeat : " IF you have previously play DOOM at 1080p/60FPS constant THEN you cannot enjoy the Switch version, impossible but really the difference in terms of feeling, reativity and even visually, it's just night and day..."

Now, about Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Monster Hunter World etc... runs perfectly at 60FPS on PC ? So, what's the problem for the player who wants to experience these games at their best ? There is no problem, they just buy the PC version... And don't forget that the next generation of consoles are ready to be launched next year, they're gonna run games at minimum 1080p/60fps... ^^

@Cobalt
IF you have previously play DOOM at 1080p/60FPS constant THEN you cannot enjoy the Switch version

That's just flat out wrong, and clearly and obviously wrong given the fact countless people who played it not just in 1080p, but 4K, STILL ENJOY THE SWITCH VERSION

You have this imaginary world you've dreamed up that you think the rest of us live in.

@JaxonH

You're incredibly full of bad-faith...
Have a nice day.

@JaxonH Not even just 4K, 144fps or higher which beats the **** out of literally any other version on a technical level because there is actually a difference between 144fps and 60fps. 1440p/4K is overrated compared to playing games at framerates higher than 60fps imo.

Switch version is still magic because we're able to take current-gen games into playable handheld forms at this level.

@FragRed the bounce level had me inventing new obscenities, slurs, and sounds, then stringing them into melodic compositions.

It's very literally an NES game in pretty clothes. The length and have design is purely NES. A few level of brutal difficulty and frequent restarts to pad what would be a 1 it 2 hour game if you could just blast through. Otoh I'm sure long time die hards would accept nothing less. And $30 i guess pays for a game meant only as sort of fan service for the anniversary to a smallish audience. I played it as someone that never played mm in the old days. I imagine someone that cherished the series and never stepped away from it might think it's amazing.

(Whispers: personally I'm growing to realize mm is bad game design and always has been. But somehow it developed a following of people that loved its flaws and it became a subgenre. Like silver surfer and battletoads.)

@Cobalt if you've played doom with gyro or mouse controls, then you cannot enjoy the dual analog console versions.

There, i fixed it for you.

Doom is free on game pass on beautiful 60hz on my 1x. I'm not even going to waste hdd space on it. The switch version may be low res, but it actually controls properly. Not even my elite or $160 razer wolverine can fix that on x1.

@NEStalgia I think part of the reason Mega Man 11 seems like something that will be a massive success is because of the Dark Souls games - brutally difficult simply to be brutally difficult. That, and the hype that has been built up around it thanks to media sites and the older generation YouTube celebs (I really hate calling them celebs, because they're not). Just you wait for Battletoads next year. All that fun of pure anger coming straight at you in full force, because hey "this is nostalgia" and the fans seem to love it. I don't know why.

Mega Man 11 is actually is no more or less difficult than the classic games.

But it comes with 4 difficulty settings, with newcomer getting anyone through the game and casual recommended for vets who simply haven't played in a while.

@FragRed Dark Souls II was difficult for the sake of difficulty. Dark Souls 1 and III aren't much so. And Dark Souls isn't THAT difficult either. Punishing yes, but not really difficult to the point of bullcrap. It's fairly lenient and there are multiple ways to break the game to reduce the difficulty even moreso. Mega Man is the same deal too.

Series like Dark Souls, Mega Man, and Castlevania work because their level design allows the player to take in their surroundings and react accordingly, and their controls are their tool to force the player to play by their rules. If you're patient, you can clear the levels fairly comfortably. Pattern reading and memorization of what things do is the key to success in any difficult game, from Castlevania to Dark Souls to Crash Bandicoot to Nioh.

@NEStalgia

Lmao damn. I actually do agree though. If I had a choice between the Xbox/PS4 version of a shooter or the Switch version but had gyro controls, I'll pick the Switch version all the time even with lower resolution and framerate.

Of course if I were to play shooters, I'd play on PC because I really love mouse + keyboard, but gyro is the closest alternative to mouse + keyboard.

Although I would love to find a way to get gyro working on Steam. I tried tweaking my settings on Steam with my Pro Controller, but it never feels right. It feels like the gyro desyncs way more than it does in Splatoon or Doom on Switch.

@ReaderRagfish The difficulty is EXTREMELY exaggerated. Then again, I grew up playing hard games. Like, I beat Mario Lost Levels as a kid when I was 8, so perhaps I'm biased.

But Dark Souls is actually more forgiving than people would lead you to think though. There's multiple windows to attack, there's multiple windows to dodge, there's multiple windows to heal, and there's very little bad hitboxes so if you're on point with pattern reading and avoiding, you're all good.

I barely played Monster Hunter (I had Tri for the Wii and 3DS but didn't get very far because of IRL), but I'm sure I can deal with it nowadays. To be honest though, I bet both Monster Hunter and Dark Souls share many elements from the varied playstyles, stamina-based gameplay, and turn-based like combat where it's all about pattern recognition and retaliation when the enemy breaks form.