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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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Knuckles-Fajita

This is a good one.

"Our game that only released in Japan on their worst selling system didn't sell well. Therefore, we wont put any of the franchise on Switch with its renewed interest in a global capacity and proven track record of improved sales for games"

https://gonintendo.com/stories/313316-yakuza-series-producer-...

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Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia Dragonball Z has a weird loyal following. Not my cup of tea as the storyline is non existent...I liked the original Dragonball as it is just A journey to the west with aliens... but people still love Toriyama and his work so ...ok. I'll play it because I need a traditional fighter...well more traditional fighters.

Um I'm the last person to ask about story in a FG. I don't care (sorry). I spend half my time in training modes and Arcade modes. I care about netcode, hitboxes, frame rate and how well of a footsie game I can pull off. (my wake up game has always been garbage).

As for the why the m fighters won't come in...um these games can totally run on the switch (half of em use unreal) but its that whole chicken vs egg sort of thing. The FGC is small as is...and elitist and mainstream gamers are bogged down worrying about story and whatnot. I am hoping that the SF collection is going to push 3rd strike and Alpha II and III fans to take switches to evo. Capcom sends reps there so maybe if they see folks playing on switches in between sets then they might push out more modern games like Ultra IV.

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NEStalgia

@Grumblevolcano Absolutely. So many games (Ys, Shining, Valkyria, Wolfenstein, Fighter Z, so many more got no Treehouse time, and Smash go 3 daily segments. Why not just make Day 1 smash and do other stuff the other two?

Again, speaking of Iwata, it seems Treehouse become a marketing statement for one or two games instead of a showcase of as much as possible after Iwata was gone.

@Knuckles-Fajita Oh, that's rich. In reality it only ever came to WiiU due to Iwata's close working personal relationship with Nagoshi. No Iwata, no Yakuza. More importantly the statement was translated incorrectly. It's understandable, since the kanji for "Sony" and "bribe money" can also be read as the jukugo for "franchise historical low sales." You have to use the word "Yakuza" to inference the correct reading.

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@Ryu_Niiyama I think story modes in FG really can grow the fanbase though. That's what it's missing to hook the mainstream. Halo became a big online shooter because people got drawn in by the story. Same for Half-Life. Stories created the competitive shooting scene even if it's not the core of the game. The same could happen for FG. As a casual non-competitive FG fan, I loved DoA on 3DS, Injustice on WiiU, I'm enjoying Tekken 7 on X1 with it's thin but fun story mode, I can tell it's thin....but fun. Virtual Fighter (free on X1) is great at looking arcade cool, but doesn't draw you in with just arcade mode. Most buy COD for online competitive play, but how many bought in for the campaign to start with?

Blaz is a popular fighter....and is famous for stories in the fighting games. I still think that would really grow the genre. The sense of learning the combat through enemy AI rather than just vs practice is more interesting a draw. I'ts currently a high barrier to be interested. A campaign gets you to learn the skills in a fun way before venturing online. Especially if it's a real game and not tacked on. Heck, Subspace is the only reason I started paying attention to Smash!

NEStalgia

Ryu_Niiyama

@Knuckles-Fajita Yeah I did a double take at that. But Sega gonna Sega. Who wants another sanic game ya'll!

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
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Octane

@NEStalgia To be fair, he never cited that the Wii U sales were the reason the Switch isn't considered. That's either a mistranslation or poor journalism.

Octane

ReaderRagfihs

@NEStalgia I've never met a single person who bought any of those games because of story or single player content, except for maybe Half Life.

In terms of hooking the mainstream, games such as street fighter 2 and smash 64 sold millions of copies despite being deep games with almost no story or single player content.

Still waiting for Atlus to make Snowboard Kids 3

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Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia Those are fighting words. VF is the greatest tech fighter around. Even if Sega wont make six. And what do yo mean free on X1? Games with gold?

I have never been able to make heads or tails of BB's story and I use the time to go get a water refill. I get what you are saying objectively...but I don't understand it subjectively. The gameplay design is for learning the technique of the games, they aren't story driven (none of em make sense anyway) yet I keep hearing complaints about story. I get that for an rpg where the battle mechanics are just a vehicle to get you to the next story point, but fighting games aren't like that. The battle mechanics are the actual game. I get games like the Narutimate Ninja games that are an RPG with fight game battle mechanics but that is really a genre smash that works because they made stand alone Naruto fighing games...figured out a system then made an RPG and threw that system in there for the battles. Smash is a party brawler...if it has a story it really won't make sense. Subspace was fun but at the end of the day that series is a Nintendo and some 3rd parties mash up...just because.

However I don't care if devs add story, if mainstream people play fighting games...I get more fighting games...so I'm not knocking it...I'll just be spamming A or start to get past the fluff. Give me a solid training mode and some good netcode and an arcade mode...and I'm good to go. I live and breath VF and I can't tell you what the heck the story is about...aside from the latest Dural is a Vanessa Lewis clone...which I only know because Vanessa is my Main.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

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Ralizah

@Ryu_Niiyama SEGA's support is pretty robust this year, though. Looks like the people behind the Yakuza games just have no interest in Nintendo whatsoever, and are reaching for a clearly irrational excuse not to support the system.

Kind of makes me glad I bought Yakuza 0 secondhand, to be perfectly honest.

Ralizah

Grumblevolcano

@NEStalgia Before this year's E3 I thought nothing could top BotW regarding overplayed games during E3 but Smash Ultimate beat it. There was half the Direct, the tournament and 10 Treehouse Live sessions so it was very relaxing when the first 3 hours of day 3 only had 1 Smash segment (Arcade Archives, Starlink, Smash, XC2 Torna DLC, Super Mario Party).

Grumblevolcano

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Ralizah

What amazes me is how little was actually revealed about the new Smash, given how much we saw of it. We still know next to nothing about the other gameplay modes.

Ralizah

Ryu_Niiyama

@Ralizah I'm a little salty personally as I buy sony systems to play yakuza (sure I play some other games but if yakuza stopped....I would let those other games pass me by). The thing that gets my goat is with the hd remakes of 3-5 on the way and the kiwami games (or just port the wiiu 1&2 with a resolution bump) you could toss the whole series on a new platform to another audience.

I'm not trying to dismiss Sega's other non sonic support (but as a Yakuza and VF fan...I'm kinda annoyed). So that is flavoring my response.

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
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Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

NEStalgia

@Ryu_Niiyama " Who wants another sanic game ya'll!"
Gotta go (away) fast!

@ReaderRagfish Halo and Cod campaigns are quite popular....which is why they spend tons of money on them, and the lack of a great campaign on Halo 5 has netted it fairly low customer feedback on Microsoft's own digital store. Lots of people buy those games for the campaigns, and lots of multiplayer players got into the multiplayer by way of the campaigns. The lore is half of Halo! Maybe you're playing with competitive online minded players, who aren't interested in that, but that's an echobox of likeminded players not representing the full customer base.

Unless you meant the fighting games in which case, yes, it's not nearly as common, but some games are trying to remedy that, and IMO that would go a long, long way to growing FG as a genre. The all-arcade approach makes it stand out as antiquated and ensures the only people that are interested in an FG are people who were already interested in FG. Injustice 2 got a lot of good feedback for it's meaningful campaign in a fighting game for example. Do "core" fighters care? Of course not. But the point is selling these games beyond "core" fighters, and maybe finding more core fighters.

Street Fighter 2 and Smash 64 were products of the early to mid 90's....of course arcade play sold well back then. Arcades were still popular, and a popular selling point for home games was arcade games at home (that was Sega's main shtick with their consoles overall at the time), and Smash was unique entirely with its character crossover and platformer/fighter gameplay on a system that didn't have a huge library of games compared to today (by design.) That was when fighters were what shooters are now: the cool game everybody wants to play. But it's languished and now the only fighting fans are the existing fighting fans, mostly skewing older (those of us that remembers waiting in line behind the dude in the rad mullet for 5 minutes of Street Fighter. ) The genre needs to appeal more broadly if it doesn't want to remain niche. That doesn't mean dumb it down, but it needs a more complete package. Some fighters are doing this. I had a blast with SF2Ultra, I don't really do online fighter play (I stand no chance, I'm proud of my C- rank!) but I beat the hardest mode for arcade mode a few times and had a blast. But I'd have more of a blast if I had games with that fighting mechanic applied to a broader game. I enjoy the scant few games that offer that.

@Ryu_Niiyama Haha, it looks quite impressive. I had fun playing the drunken fighting guy for a bit. No idea what I'm doing. But yeah, VF5 Final Showdown is free with GwG (minus the billion dollars of DLC of course.) You have a few days left if you haven't picked it up, until the 15th! I'd enjoy it more with a joystick

I see your point in terms of story, but you're coming at it as a veteran competitive fighter from the days when it was all the rage in the arcade. Newer players don't have that backdrop, and somehow I was never into fighters in the arcade days....I was all about platforming/shmup/brawlers+pinball. I have a hard time getting pulled into a game if it doesn't feel like it has a focus to playing it. Just battle after battle for the sake of battle for arcade mode gets old (especially with AI that reads inputs ) something to make it into an "event" gives it a lot more weight. Given the popularity of Soulsborne, MH, games with FG like challenging fighting, high difficulty, but tie it into a campaign, I think the time is ripe to start bringing FG into more significant packages.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@Ryu_Niiyama They're already bringing the Yakuza games to PC (Kiwami and 0 are both scheduled for release so far, so I would guess the others will eventually follow). At this point, the only series that would get me to buy another Playstation console is Persona (Gravity Rush as well, but considering how poorly Kat's latest adventure sold, I think we've seen the end of those games). I don't care about Sony's gritty billion-dollar cinematic adventures where you're graphically murdering people.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia ...does MS no longer sell one month vouchers for xbox live? SIGH. Ah well fine I'll just dig out my ps3. Yeah you can't pay me to play VF on a pad. I can't fuzzy guard for anything with a pad.

But those games you mentioned aren't fighting games. They don't even have fighting game like mechanics. There is a big difference between an action adventure or rpg's idea of how combat works and an actual Fighting Game. Like I said the closest I've seen to what you are asking for is the Naruto games (and those are average games). The thing is keeping the balance of the base game, the netcode of the online game and still have all the other trappings. Plus the mainstream obsession with character glut.

A good fighting game has a lot of moving parts that full blown campaigns will shift focus from (balance mainly) in my opinion, not saying that a FG can't have a story...but that is just going to be a bunch of cut-scenes. It sounds like you are looking for a genre evolution based upon the games you cited. I guess my question is this...do games where the gameplay system is the game need a huge plot/storyline? Do we care why Mario goes go karting with bowser? Yet people are asking for story in games about fight mechanics. These aren't sims like ufc where you would expect a career mode because you are playing as a mma fighter. FGs are about technique, mind games and frames. Again I'm not against what you are stating but I'm trying to understand why, beyond you are bored with the mechanics (which may just mean it is a genre mismatch for you). I understand the call for simpler gameplay, and most of the FG are good with doing a series reboot (which is why the FGC sits on some games) and capcom's VS series is great for people that want a flashy fighter with less button inputs (Still lots of strategy but not as robust as a standard fighter) BBCTTB fills this spot on the Switch.

@Ralizah I really think I'm going back to Nintendo/PC after the Twins have their run. Most of the games I like are multiplats with PC, and there arent enough exclusives with ether company to dive in again. I haven't touched my PS4 or X1 in over a year... but I'm playing video games everyday...that's not good. Now that fighting games are making nice little homes on PC...yeah no real reason for me to stay.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

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Grumblevolcano

@Tsurii Yes, 2016. They could've varied it more with stuff like indie games but of course focusing on BotW was the option that would be better received.

@Ralizah I always figured single player content would be left for closer to launch.

Grumblevolcano

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NEStalgia

@Grumblevolcano Even the BotW year showed more games properly even though they said they wouldn't . And that year had an excuse...."NX" was still hidden for 4 more months, so they could show no other games beyond 3DS games and the only WiiU/NX crossover they had plus Color Splash. This year they had a whole boatload of games....and chose to show few of them, and show one of them for 10 hours. They even benched freaking Pikachu part way in to show more Smash. Hard to fail harder in marketing than to have a ton of products and not demonstrate most of them. That would be like Sony sidelining Kratos to talk more All Stars Battle Royale, but even worse.

@Ralizah So you don't want Sony's billion dollar cinematic games where you graphically murder people, but you do want Sega's quarter billion dollar cinematic games where you graphically murder people?

@Ryu_Niiyama They sell $9.99 one month memberships, still, sure. Amazon/Gamestop don't seem to have them. xbox.com does, digitally. Maybe it's easier to get them in store than online.

The rest I disagree. Look at Sushi Striker. It took a puzzle/action/tactics game and turned it into a big fun story game. Mario Tennis Aces for that matter (ok, bad, short example).....no reason fighters can't do much of the same.

Arcade racers have had story to make it fun for some time. Forza Horizon does the "you're a racer headlining festivals" thing. NFS does various gang things. Meanwhile Forza/GT are just series circuit races like arcade mode. Kart could easily have that, but doesn't. Mind games don't work for single player FG, so part of the core of vs. fighters is missing if not competing from the start. Tekken does it wrong....it has you battling faceless enemies often. But it's fun. DoA does it right, it's a framework for the regular arcade battles. Though I could see a legit single player, Tekken style working fine in the way Smash did Subspace.

Some games do try to approach that, but it always seems half hearted because they know the core like yourself is fine with it being purely competitive and for whatever reason, they're fine with that niche.....the funny thing is what made FG popular in the 90's was that it was reaching broadly and not obsessing with niches. A full game....a sense of progression in a game, but utilizing the full technicalities of a fighting game could be a really cool game. I think, again, the Soulsborne crowd could be onboard easily.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

NEStalgia wrote:

So you don't want Sony's billion dollar cinematic games where you graphically murder people, but you do want Sega's quarter billion dollar cinematic games where you graphically murder people?

Like what?

Ralizah

Knuckles-Fajita

Sonic Forces was nearly an accessory to suicide with how bad it is.

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