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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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JaxonH

I thought Kirby was more fun than it originally looked, but still nothing too special. A quality game for co-op, maybe not so much for single player. Although it is totally playable in single player

I'm glad to see it's done so well. But DKC puts Kirby to utter shame (sorry, no offense dear Kirby fans). But DKC deserves to put up numbers like that. It really does. Not only is it a quality single player game but it's every bit as much a co-op game as Kirby. And now it has a wide range for all skill levels, from Funky Mode to normal mode to hard mode, and infinite replayability via time trial runs (and I never do time trials- I'm not what you would consider a speed runner nor have I ever had any interest in speed running... until I played Tropical Freeze that is).

I'm suddenly juggling God of War, South Park, Gal Gun 2 (and Darkest Dungeon physical version also arrived today, but that's going in backlog). And I wanted to check out Naruto Trilogy on Thursday (but that's probably gonna have to get skipped in lieu of no physical release- can only afford space for the best of the best)... I didn't realize so many games were releasing all at once.

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Spoony_Tech

@IceClimbers Just curious since you never responded in the NBA topic, dis you know Mr Trill died?

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

MERG said:

If I was only ever able to have Monster Hunter and EO games in the future, I would be a happy man.

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FragRed

@darkfenrir I am sure it will do much better than the PS4 version in Japan alone, assuming it launches day and date without delays.

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JaxonH

@FragRed
PS4 version already released in Japan about a month ago. But I'm glad they're releasing that game on Switch same day in the west. Kinda same deal with Valkyria Chronicles 4. Comes later to Switch in Japan but makes day and date release in the west.

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gcunit

JaxonH wrote:

Think that's a tad pessimistic. Sales of Switch are nowhere anywhere close to the Vita. I'm pretty sure it's doing more in Japan alone than Vita was doing globally.

But the type of games being released are pretty similar - mostly indie and Japanese, with the occasional bigger title.

JaxonH wrote:

But, there is actually reason for them to withhold announcements. There is. Nintendo announces almost everything big in their directs. I think 80% 90% of the biggest games we got from third parties, were announced by Nintendo, and/or were announced after other versions. That's just a fact. Not really sure where that mindset is coming from saying there's no reason for them to withhold, when that's exactly what they've been doing since the day the system launched.

It doesn't matter to me who announces them, it's the lack of announcements that's the issue. My point is, if the games are coming, why haven't Nintendo or the 3rd party announced them? I'm seeing several references within various corners of the internet that Switch is having an underwhelming 2018 so far. A couple more big announcements would help maintain consumer belief that Switch is the real deal.

JaxonH wrote:

Dark Souls is still coming. Five years from now when we look back nobody's going to care if the game released 60 to 90 days after the other versions. Might be aggravating now (and it is), but that doesn't suddenly spell doom for the system. Wolfenstein does force a download. And I agree it's aggravating. But again, the game is still coming.

But it's not a promising trend, that's all I'm getting at.

JaxonH wrote:

Stop stressing that Call of Duty ... hasn't been announced.

I never mentioned it

kkslider5552000 wrote:

gcunit doesn't understand the new normal for Nintendo announcements. Major AAA games have several times already been announced literally 3 or less months before release nowadays on Switch, and certain big time titles are very clearly going to wait until the last 1/3 of the year, because that's how AAA games tend to work.

Skyrim = 10 months between reveal and release
Wolfenstein 2 = 9 months between reveal and release
FIFA = 8 months
Dark Souls Remastered = 4 months pushed to ? months.
Metroid Prime 4 = ????

Doom is the only big game I can think of that actually fits your 3 month understanding. I'm probably forgetting some, but pardon me if the above games have warped my understanding.

Use the 'ignore' button, it works.

Currently playing: Runner 3; Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood; Kirby Triple Deluxe; ICO; FIFA 18; Owlboy

Nothing is true; Everything is permitted.

Grumblevolcano

About the big 3rd parties situation, E3 is probably the main thing to look at. If we see stuff like Ubisoft's conference ends up just being Just Dance 2019, Starlink and a lot of "everything but Switch" then be concerned.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

FragRed

@Grumblevolcano Looking at the kind of games Ubisoft typically produce, I think we should be expecting only Just Dance and Starlink. I certainly don't expect to see the next Watch Dogs or Assassins Creed make their way over. That is unless Ubisoft has another exclusive in the works or something small in size that the Switch could run without too much downgrading

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JaxonH

@gcunit
It's true, Switch is getting a lot of Japanese games. But it's getting a lot of higher profile, high quality Japanese games. Vita got visual novels and the dredges of game development. Just because they both got Japanese games doesn't mean their libraries are anywhere close to being similar.

But Japanese games is exactly what's going to make Switch a success. It's part of the reason Wii U failed. It didn't really get any. But 3DS, it got plenty of Japanese games. Good high-quality ones. And so is Switch. It's library is far more in common with 3DS than Vita. And it's library is going to far exceed that of 3DS. A lot of the games we are seeing would never have been dreamed to be on 3DS.

As for lack of announcements, how many are you expecting? We've got a list of like 75 games coming, something like that? Lack of announcements relative to what, exactly? There's plenty of games getting announced. The only type of game it could use more of is higher budget western games. But it doesn't need them. 3DS didn't need them. Wii didn't need them. That's the hardest segment of the market to pull in. But we're still getting games announced all the time. If you're comparing it to other consoles, then yeah it's getting a lot less games announced, that's true. But since when does a system need that many games announced to be considered enough? 3DS got way less games then a PS4 and yet it still one of the best systems of all time, with one of the best libraries. Switch is getting way more games than 3DS was getting at this point in its life. And way higher quality at that.

As for not being a promising trend... it is what it is. But at the end of the day, as long as games are coming, people will get over it. In fact I would recommend getting used to it because I'm fairly certain most games are going to come later than other consoles. It is what it is. Doesn't make the game any less fun when you play it.

As for consumers believing Switch is "the real deal", last I checked it's still selling really well so I don't know where this idea came from the consumers suddenly lost faith in the system. And I'm not really sure why they would anyways. It's so shortsighted. The consumers that are going to make the system a success are not Wii U owners. And the only people complaining about games are... Wii U owners. To everyone else, they're getting a new 1st party game every month, quite often with once in a generation masterpieces (Bayonetta 2, DKC Tropical Freeze).

It's like you're looking at things through the lens of a Wii U owner and then thinking everyone in the world shares that viewpoint. People believe Switch is the real deal (and they should). Nothing has changed. When you're talking about the masses who buy consoles, they're looking at the system as a whole. They see your system everyone loves that's selling great, with games like Zelda BotW, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade 2, Bayonetta 2, DKC Tropical Freeze, they see ARMS and Mario Tennis and Hyrule Warriors. There's nothing to make someone think it's not the real deal.

Of course the system could always use more games- and more games will definitely benefit the system but, you almost act as if it's not getting a crap ton of games. Good ones. Even if one were to concede this year isn't the best they've ever had, it's a couple months. This is the long game of chess, not tic-tac-toe. A couple months with less releases and Wii U ports to keep things rolling is nothing. And in 60 days when DKC is out, Hyrule Warriors and Mario Tennis is out, e3 rolls along and we see Smash Bros and Fire Emblem and Pokémon and Mario Maker, do you think anybody's going to care about a couple months in the early year that didn't have some earth shattering game? No need to freak out over a couple months with Wii U ports.

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JaxonH

@gcunit
Btw, not only DOOM, but Dark Souls (doesn't matter if it was pushed back, it was originally slated for May), South Park, Crash Trilogy, Mario Rabbids, Okami HD, MHXX, etc. And most 3rd party games releasing in the second half of the year, they will be announced at e3 or the August Direct following. Or they're already announced (No More Heroes, DQ Builders 2, World Ends With You, SNK Heroines, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Shining Resonance, My Hero Ones Justice, V-Rally 4, Pillars of Eternity 2, etc etc).

To be clear, I want to see more 3rd party games come to Switch, as you do. As much as possible, obviously. But let's be realistic and our expectations, and appreciate the fact most developers committing to Switch beyond test cases and easy ports, only did so after the system proved itself and 3rd party software sales proved itself, which wasn't that long ago. Let's also appreciate the fact it is a portable system where online is not is strong point. Which directly contradicts a lot of the western high budget games being made today. Let's appreciate the fact that some games will be deemed more trouble than they're worth, depending on the engine, how well it runs on Switch, whether the audience will be receptive, etc. Let's also appreciate the sheer volume of higher profile, full console games coming to Switch that systems like Vita and 3DS never saw. Or Wii U, for that matter

After all, this is the best support we've seen on a Nintendo console in a long time. That fact shouldn't be belittled. With games like Skyrim and Dark Souls, DOOM and Wolfenstein 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, South Park, LA Noire, etc. Bethesda, From Software, Obsidian, Rockstar ...these are not game developers we would've seen on past Nintendo consoles. Progress is being made... finally. But progress is a process. And it takes time. And hopefully by the time this generation is over, we'll look back and we'll see alot of those games you want to see. But we have to, have to have to have to, we have to account for the initial lack of confidence in Switch from developers, we have to account for the time period they waited and observed, and we have to account for the time it then takes to start devoting resources to the system and get games to market. Had they had faith in the system from day one, we would probably start seeing an exponential burst of games right about now. Unfortunately that wasn't the case, so expect a setback of 6-12 months minumum. Support is picking up even now, but I suspect by the end of this year, there will be a noticeable increase. Just given the fact the first year they were observing the system and then the year after that to get a game out, and from there more and more release as games that take 18 months are finished, 24 months are finished, 36 months are finished, etc.

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DarthNocturnal

....so, in summation... don't worry, be happy?

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Grumblevolcano

@FragRed That's the thing though. Franchises like Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs came even to Wii U. There have been a lot of Assassin's Creed remasters too, those remasters would've been perfect for Switch in the same way Dark Souls Remastered is coming to Switch later this year but no sign of them.

Every Splinter Cell game except Essentials (PSP exclusive) and Conviction (multiplatform) has appeared on a Nintendo console. Let's say the Ghost Recon Wildlands tease is a sign of a new Splinter Cell game and that Splinter Cell game comes to everything but Switch. It would be more signs towards Switch having bad 3rd party support.

Grumblevolcano

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FragRed

@Grumblevolcano Remasters not coming to Switch I admit is a bit strange, but new games which are becoming bigger and more complex, often open world with Ubisoft, are just not going to be ported to the Switch. The amount of resources required to get them running on the system is likely too extensive to make it worth the while.

The problem is, with the likelihood of the PS5 launching in 2019/2020, there will be less third party support coming to the system as it falls too far behind in terms of power Hardware sales stop meaning anything if the system isn't powerful enough for fairly standard ports in this day and age.

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Anti-Matter

Why so serious about AAA games ?
Me, enjoy my Switch games mostly from Non AAA games (Some Great Indies, A level 3rd party games, some AA Level 1st party games).

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2. The Sims series (9 / 10)
3. Portal Knights Switch (9 / 10)
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5. ARMS (8 / 10)

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JaxonH

@Grumblevolcano
Franchises like Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs came even to Wii U

Here's the thing about that though. They came to Wii U because Wii U was following up the success of the Wii, so it was an easy sell to developers. Hey, we just sold 100 million consoles, back us. And those games were all releasing on PS3/360 at the time, so they could all run on the Wii U.

And what happened? They didn't sell. At all. Right? That support was fleeting from the day the Wii U launched. The only reason it got Assassin's Creed 4 and Splinter Cell Blacklist was because they were already in development, something they knew was a mistake from launch day and the reason they cut modes out, didn't bring over the DLC, etc.The support Wii U saw was all in year 1- the only reason those games still came was because they were already in development, and even then, several games were cancelled even despite being in development for the system.

So ok, now look at Switch. Rather than come off the back of the uber-successful Wii, it came off the back of the titanic failure Wii U. That's number one. Number two, games are no longer releasing on PS3/360 where they can easily run on Switch without major modification, they're releasing on PS4/X1. And for three, Wii U showed many of them that the core Nintendo fanbase has little interest in western high-budget games. So naturally, they're going to question how much demand there is on Switch.

Why do you think Ubisoft polled Nintendo gamers about whether they wanted to see games like Assassins Creed on Switch last year? Because they have doubts concerning how many people actually want to play them. You get a lot of fussing in here on Nintendo fan sites but then when the games release if they don't do well, it just goes to show you had a vocal minority crying out, just like on Wii U. Tons of people crying out that they wanted those games but then they didn't sell.

Now. I do believe there is a market for those games on Switch, or at least, there could be. But only because the fanbase has slowly started becoming more receptive to 3rd party titles.

The problem is convincing Ubisoft and others of that. They have a long track record of Nintendo fans not buying those games. Some of that has to do with the smaller install base of Wii U, sure, some of it is because Nintendo fans simply aren't as interested in those titles. I do actually think there's enough demand, now, to release them on Switch at this point in time. Hopefully Ubisoft agrees. But let's say Ubi came to their senses in December 2017 and said hey, this system is selling, 3rd party games are selling (although I would remind people the sales of Ubisoft games in particular haven't been quite as good- South Park did 1.2 mil on PS4, so a late port without the Stick of Truth will naturally not do as well, but if it reaches 500k I'd say that's good). Let's start looking at what other games we can bring. Obviously the engine those games run on will be a factor (hence Southpark coming so soon, while development struggles of games like Steep keep reality in check of how much work some games would take).

I think before we are going to see a lot of those games come over, which unlike Wii U do not have an equivalent powered version to port from, they are going to have to figure out what engines they can get running on Switch. Snowdrop is a go. So any games developed in the engine should come over. But what other engines are they using and are they going to be compatible? And let's say they do want to bring AC, they're gonna have to get the engine running on Switch, or, simply start integrating Switch into future engines from the get go. But they've already got all their engines developed for this generation which means, Switch wouldn't benefit in the near future, or even this generation.

Maybe they do want to bring Splinter Cell. But maybe they game is already in development and it's using an engine that's not on Switch. And they know it would be an uphill battle. That's where the real work lies. Figuring out which engines can be ported to Switch, and which games can be ported to Switch in a multiplatform engine without questionable performance, which is also going to require scaling down.

It's a lot more complicated than just "Wii U got this game and Switch hasn't". There's deep, underlying reasons Wii U got the games it did, and deep, underlying reasons Switch has not (as of yet).

Edited on by JaxonH

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NEStalgia

@JaxonH @Grumblevolcano "Here's the thing about that though. They came to Wii U because Wii U was following up the success of the Wii, so it was an easy sell to developers."

There's also the architecture issue. WiiU was basically just a beefed up X360 inside. Porting games from X360 to WiiU took next to zero effort, so games from that first year were easy and cheap to bring over while they were still cranking out X360 content. After that, core development moved to x86 only, which made both WiiU and Switch a platform you have to think about specially and separately again. For WiiU that wasn't worth it (at all) after year 1. For Switch it is, but takes time and they do have to "choose which properties work on the platform" blah blah as they always say, because they do have to commit some resources to porting the engine to ARM if it's not natively supported (Unity/Snowdrop/UE4/Bethesda's engines now, etc) so they're only going to commit to it if they think a game will do well on Switch.

@JaxonH One thing to remember regarding Ubisoft sales numbers by platform though is you have to look at net profit by platform, not sales units. PS4 may sell a lot more of a title, but Ubisoft often runs DEEP sales on those other platforms.....40%, 50%, 75%, even 85% sales. So they sell a LOT of units, but they're making Walmart margins off it. Nintendo owners tend to be willing to buy at closer to full price, so they can net the same margins off far fewer units sold on Nintendo (but minus porting costs which have to be figured in.) The numbers get kind of complicated, but it's rarely as bleak as it looks on the internet by unit sales!

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

DarthNocturnal

Anti-Matter wrote:

Why so serious about AAA games ?

Because people enjoy playing those franchises?

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

JaxonH

@NEStalgia
That's very true, but now Switch games are consistently making $5-8 less per sale than other platforms for 16gb cart games (which Southpark TFBW is). And, Ubisoft games still drop price like crazy on Nintendo platforms (See Rayman Legends for $19.99 and Mario Rabbids for $29.99).

If anything, I'd say they need to sell more on Switch to equal the same net profit. But for the sake of argument, can settle on an equivalent profit sale per sale. Just say cart costs cancel out the [presumed] higher average price per sale.

But South Park is so good, and so many people were saying "why isn't that game on Switch". It surprises me that, now that it's on Switch, and it looks great and it runs great and it's a truly excellent game... so few people seem to care. The forum topic for the game is basically empty and dead. Just another example of games people complain about not coming to Switch, but then when it comes nobody cares. It made it up to #40 yesterday on the Amazon Top Sellers list. Which isn't that great- Mario Rabbids was at #39, and it's been out almost a year. Versus South Park at #40 on its launch day. Today it's at 56. So already dropping back down.

That's the kind of stuff that concerns me when it comes to third-party support. A lot of games are thriving on Switch, but a high-quality game like this deserves to do better than it's doing. If people really want to see Boobysoft bring its portfolio over, then high profile, critically acclaimed games like this need to do better than topping out at the equivalent sales of a game that's been out for a year.

Edited on by JaxonH

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