Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

I can't help but feel like when people say that, they didn't really play the game much. Even the second world with Windmill Hills is one of the most beautiful and creative levels, with some of the absolute best music...

I always refer people to this.

Why Tropical Freeze Is The Best 2D Platformer

Tropical Freeze Level Design vs Mario

The more footage I see of the Switch version the more I want to buy it again for the Switch. I really enjoyed it on the Wii U, it was quite a step up from the Wii release. Just about the only platformer on the Wii U that improved on its Wii equivalent IMO. Plus I've always been a fan of portable Donkey Kong Country and it'll be nice to have a version of DKC on a portable that's not a step backwards for a change.

If I do buy it again it will most definitely be because I just wanna hear the soundtrack again. David Wise is a musical genius

It had such a great soundtrack. One of the best of any video game I've played. And that's part of what makes the game so great. So many different aspects of it are among the very best of any video game. The music, the dynamic level design, the mechanics, the enemy designs and animations... it's just so good in so many ways.

This is one of the best analyses of Tropical Freeze. I'd recommend people watch this. Even people who haven't played the game through- it really helps give a full perspective of the game from a historical and critical standpoint.

I played most of the worlds. But here is the thing, I didn't finish it. Which is rare, I usually play through a game. I very often skip the achievements race, but at least beat the final boss. But I just didn't feel like finishing it.

And those videos don't convince me. When someone starts calling something the best, it is very much that person's opinion. The other didn't really talk about level design, he talked about thematic connections.

But they did remind me of something I didn't like, 2d stages where you put the camera at an angle behind and under the character. That is such a cheap shot to up the difficulty of an level. That is also connected to another thing, being hunted by something so you are forced to move fast in a level. This is fine to break up the levels, but they are quite long and frequent in DKC:TF.

So in short, loads of small things each dragging down the score.

I too struggle to rate DKC:TF that highly. It does look nice, and a few of the music tracks are particularly good, but I don't get the hype for a lot of the music (though admittedly I've only used headphones a couple of times, and you do miss a lot of detail when playing sound through the gamepad).

I'm not a fan of how DK controls. You see in that first video JaxonH posted where DK jumped to a platform, then had to back-up to ready for the next jump, and I find you're constantly having to do that - make fiddly little adjustments to avoid cheap deaths. And it's just less fun because of that.

There's not as much verticality to the game is I expected when I first played it. DK's climbing ability seems underused.

The most fun parts for me are when DK is riding on a mine cart or rocket barrel, and there's not as much of that as I'd like.

I admit I've not spent much time on it, maybe 20-25hrs, so haven't gotten everything out of it by any means, and I'm not an expert on the genre, so I won't say it's not the best of the genre, but if it is the best of the genre, I'm not sure I'm as into 2D platformers as I thought I was. I have no difficulty resisting temptation to double dip here.

Donkey Kong Country, any of them, are games I have struggled to even finish the first world in.

They just feel so....basic.

@Therad
Well, you're free to your opinion. Of course it's always opinion, calling something the best, but there is a statistically significant number of people who tend to share that opinion, which gives it more merit then just one or two outliers making the claim. The game even got a few perfect 10/10 scores, which typically if a game really isn't that great, nobody would dare give it a perfect 10. Of course there's going to be a natural range of opinions and not everyone's going to agree but any game that can break through to a perfect score... there's a reason for that.

I can talk about level design though. Whether it be the gorgeous environments that are anything but your typical fire/ice/desert/etc. from Swedish windmills and autumn leaves to Tropical oceans and silhouette characters, to tornados in the savanna to raging wildfires, to frozen tropics and jelly filled fruit jungles, the sheer creativity of the levels and the environments are second to none.

And the levels themselves have so many layers of depth, you can peel them away like an onion. Unlike Mario games or other platformers that introduce one mechanic per stage, and then on to the next, DKC mixes multiple mechanics per stage. That second video actually does talk about this. It's one of the foundations of the level design and one of the reasons it stands out as superior.

The videos also talk about the balance between levels designed for exploration and levels designed for speed running. As someone who spent several hundred hours speed running levels, I have a full appreciation of just how well they designed each and every stage in the game. There are ingenious shortcuts everywhere you look. Each and every enemy and ledge is placed with perfection. Playing through normally you're not likely to notice. Once you start speed running and you realize you can roll off a ledge and jump midair, then bop off an enemy that's flying towards you, then bop off another enemy on a spinning platform, then triple bop off frozen fish flying forward by an archer penguin... only then do you realize just how brilliant the level design truly is.

Add to that how dynamic each stage is. From giant tree nuts rolling and chasing you, to a bobsled carved by a sawmill in real time which then becomes a mine cart, to platforms and ground falling and raising up, to tornadoes and lightning, to wildfire burning vines and trees... levels feel so alive and non-static.

Not sure what you're referring to with 2D stages with a camera behind and under you. The only time the camera changes is for the dynamic camera scenes in barrels or occasionally a minecart level. Which really makes the game pop and become 3 dimensional. Some of my absolute favorite stretches of the game are with the dynamic camera. It really has no effect on difficulty at all. It's just a different viewpoint.

As for being chased, I rather enjoy those parts. They aren't that frequent- I recall a nut chasing you and later in World 5, a spinning fruit slicer chasing you, aside from that nothing really comes to mind. I'm sure there are a few other examples but, I thoroughly enjoyed each and every one of them. Those kinds of levels put your reactionary skills to the test. Not just how good you are at platforming, but how good you are at platforming when making split decisions. Not that they were terribly hard to out run though.

I can appreciate someone just not enjoying the game. But criticisms from that Gamespot review, like saying environments are "bland and uninspired" is the furthest thing from the truth. I don't understand how anyone could look at the gorgeous and dynamic environments in this game and label them bland and uninspired. Because it's 10x beyond any Mario or Rayman game, and those are considered the best of the genre. That review also didn't even mention the David Wise soundtrack which is one of the best soundtracks in any video game, ever. If that's not biased I don't know what is. Even if someone didn't enjoy the game, they should at least acknowledge the amazing soundtrack for what it is. They purposefully omitted it from the review. That's just insane. A lot of the other criticisms were also debunked like the "sure footedness"- there's a video analysis that shows Mario actually has more slip and slide than DKC.

So if someone just didn't enjoy it, and they've set their mind to it then hey, I respect that. Everyone has different tastes, and there's not a video game out there where everyone is going to like it. But that should really come down to taste because objectively speaking, the level design is insanely good, the environments are incredibly gorgeous and dynamic, the mechanics are spot on and the soundtrack is simply incredible. Objectively speaking, the game is close to perfection. If someone simply doesn't enjoy it despite that, for whatever personal reasons, that's understandable. But that review was one of the worst examples of slandering a game with the exact opposite of what it really is under the guise of opinion. You don't just simply ignore one of the best soundtracks of any game because it would help make the game seem better. That's completely unprofessional. And like the game or not, the environments are stunningly gorgeous. To call them bland is is nonsensical. To say DK doesn't have the sure footedness of Mario, despite Mario having more slip and slide than DK, is just flat out wrong.

I honestly do find it hard to understand how someone could like Returns but not TF, when TF fixes the start and stop blowing mechanic littered throughout stages, when the Snowmads are so much better than the tikis, the stages are so much richer and well designed, with a greater diversity of mechanics via Diddy, Dixie, Cranky (and now Funky), with a better soundtrack, with new underwater levels, better difficulty curve, better boss fights, cool dynamic camera sections...it's like every aspect of the game is better. But hey, it is what it is. If it wasn't for you then it wasn't for you. But I will add that if you like shaking the controller to roll, they've added that in Tropical Freeze for Switch as an option. At least, for sideways Joycon in tabletop. Not sure about other control methods.

I must admit I thought this a touch overrated back in 2014, yet I'm quite looking forward to it on Switch.

Thinking back to when it came out, I had platformer fatigue. I'd gone from DKCR3D to Rayman Origins on Vita, then in late '13 I got a Wii U and piled through NSMBU, a lot of Rayman Legends, then Mario 3D World, then Steamworld Dig on the Vita. Chuck in having to compete with Pikmin 3 which I love, and it never stood a chance.

It's conceivable that the same will happen with my current Switch backlog but I'm more excited second time around, no question.

I never got it because I was knee-deep in MMOs and didn't have the budget for console games. I do have a massive interest though, but the money isn't right at the moment.

@JaxonH
Looked at your Loooooong... reply on above, i was thinking to myself about game score. 🙄
For me, i don't care what Metacritic said or whoever judgement.
One game can be replied with soooo many debates.
Me, so simple.
I play games what i like, don't care what people said, as long i have interest, even i judged my games by myself, i don't need soo..... complex arguments & debates just only to play a game.
I play simple games by mostly.
Some complex games, i don't even need arguments and debates.

@Ralizah

DKC will do very well. It's a big name that was hindered saleswise by more than just being on Wii U. I know there was a lot of disappointment at the time because people wanted something else from Retro but another platform game really wasn't what Wii U needed. It also got delayed past Christmas because Nintendo had a barren looking 2014. Things could be different second time around.

@JaxonH

If Sega don't bring VC1 West I'm going to be livid. It's already been translated. I'll probably be sufficiently annoyed to boycott VC4 (at least until it's cheap or available pre-owned).

If I was a millionaire, I'd buy Tropical Freeze and gift it to every single person here who hasn't played it and can't afford it. Unfortunately... that will never happen. It's just one of those games where, I enjoyed it sooo much, I want as many people to experience the same awe and wonder and addiction I felt when I first played it.

When I was a kid, Donkey Kong Country was my favorite video game. It was just so good. In elementary school I drew pictures of Engarde in the water levels cause I was into art and had special colored pencils that cost like a buck each. I named hiking paths that we blazed through the south Alabama thicket as kids "Bramble Scramble". I simply adore those games like I adored Sonic the Hedgehog. And for nearly 2 decades, I waited on the series return.

When DKC Returns released though, I was in the middle of my early twenties cocaine-addled party days as a degenerate loser. I remember playing that game all the way through, certainly not in a sober state of mind, so I don't remember much of it. When it came to 3DS, I was clean and finally gotten out of that lifestyle. So that was the first time I really got to play it and appreciate it. I was super excited for that game when it came to 3DS.

But Tropical Freeze? I remember when it was announced. I literally started tearing up. This was one of my favorite game series since a child, finally fully realized in HD. The fact the game then exceeded all my expectations in every single aspect, cemented it as one of my favorite video games I've ever played

@Anti-Matter
I don't need scores to justify playing a game either... clearly. But we are here to talk about video games, and that's what we're doing. I don't really know what you're talking about. Nobody said anything about playing a game or not playing a game based on a review score.

@electrolite77
I'd do the opposite. Good sales of Valkyria Chronicles 4 would encourage them to localize and cash in. Worst sales will have the opposite effect.

Either way I agree, I will be livid as well. But by supporting the game I'm voting with my wallet in saying I want this. Bring the other one and I'll buy it also.

@JaxonH If you were rich enough to do cocaine (Thanks for sharing btw, totally unnecessary!) then you can buy everyone a copy of DKCTF!

This year will likely have a similar amount of platformers as the early Wii U era. You had Kirby in March, Tropical Freeze in May, likely Yoshi in August and possibly 3D World or 2D Mario during the holiday. That's only 1st party games, there's also the many indie games which are platformers including the conclusion to Shovel Knight.

@JaxonH

I'm probably all talk. Thing is though, I'm buying so many games on Switch to encourage support (I'm one of the roughly 28 people that have bought South Park and the Telltale Batman game and I paid full price for FIFA) but that situation would test me. That's past the point where they should need encouraging to release stuff.

@Grumblevolcano

Yoshi, Kirby and DKC for sure, so 3 total 2D platformers by the end of year 2. It's more than you see other platforms get, but usually they frontload their platformers. So we may only see 1-2 more from them the entire generation. Indies don't really count, because all systems have a ton of indie platformers. They're just not the same experience as a full AAA 2D platformer. They could release 1000 games like Shovel Knight and Super Meat Boy, and it wouldn't scratch the itch a game like DKC does.

But given how AAA platformers are the most ignored genre of AAA game there is, I'm glad at least one company gives us a small handful each generation. Nintendo is very skilled at making games in this genre so, it makes sense for them to do what they're good at, and it tends to balance out with the fact no one else really makes them. So across 3 console platforms, I'm lucky to see even 6 high quality AAA platformers in a generation. It's not much.

@electrolite77
I hear ya. But it's not like we buy the game just to encourage support- we buy it because we genuinely want to play the game. The fact that it also shows them there is demand on the platform for that series, and thus demand for Valkyria Chronicles 1... just reinforces the decision.

I think it's well established games are selling, but I still think they're trying to sort out which game series sell in particular. The fact it's long been proven that games are selling on Switch means they are willing to start bringing different franchises to see what sticks now. But if a particular franchise doesn't resonate with the audience then I don't think they will be too interested in following through with more games in that series.

edit
We should tweet at Sega that we want VC1 in the west. And anyone else in this forum reading this should do the same. There's not really a good tweet to reply to, so just a general @Sega should do the trick. Ask em what's up with Valkyria Chronicles 1 for Switch in the west. Said it's already localized, so why hasn't it been announced yet...

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Look at this DKC Switch case being sold at GameStop