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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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KirbyTheVampire

Noonch wrote:

I'm holding off any doomed declarations until the holiday season. I'm hoping they'll have a ton of stock by then. I feel the holiday is make or break for the system.

Unless Nintendo utterly fails in keeping up a consistent stream of games in the following years, I don't think there's really any chance the system could fail. Not only is it a console and a portable, it has Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and ARMS, and will be getting Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, Mario + Rabbids, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Fire Emblem, Fire Emblem Warriors, Kirby, Yoshi, Metroid Prime 4, Pokemon, and presumably Animal Crossing, Smash, and a localized version of Monster Hunter. I just see no feasible way it could fail with that lineup, not to mention all the other games that are coming that we don't know about.

Edited on by KirbyTheVampire

KirbyTheVampire

-Green-

^Nintendo always finds a way my friend.

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

NEStalgia

@rallydefault You missed the sig on that post: "Sent from my WiiU"

Nah, WiiU was "if they manage to sell enough this holiday it's make or break for the system"
With Switch it's "OMG, I hope any stock is available for the holiday, they're all gonna be gone on black friday and up to $900 on EBay!"

NEStalgia

rallydefault

@KirbyTheVampire
When you put it that way... lol

No, seriously, Nintendo does have an incredible system in the Switch AND the games on it and in the future are already incredible.

But in the modern gaming industry, that really means nothing. You can be the PS4 and launch with nothing except Netflix and a twin-stick PSPlus game and "win" the generation almost instantly, or you can be something like the Gamecube and have a starting lineup including a well-received "Mario" game and still "fail."

In the social media age, it's more about the perception of the company than it ever has been in the past. When Microsoft came out and royally botched the Xbox One reveal, they pretty much handed this generation to Sony. When Sony, especially, followed up with those hilarious game-sharing short video poking fun at Microsoft, I think more gamers bought into the PS4 regardless of the underwhelming launch lineup (that pretty much lasted a year). And where does Nintendo fit in? Well, at that time, still just for kids. MAYBE that's breaking up a bit now, though.

@NEStalgia
AH! Holy cow, I didn't see that! LOL! That's perfect.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

Grumblevolcano

@KirbyTheVampire I agree except from the part about localized Monster Hunter but that's probably been discussed a bit too much in this thread, the MHXX thread, the MHW thread and comments section of articles to do with Capcom.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

KirbyTheVampire

@rallydefault That is true. PlayStation is definitely a strong brand, and a lot of people see it as THE gaming system in a sense. I still feel like Nintendo has a good chance this time around though, both due to the larger amount of "hardcore" games on the system than there were on the Wii U, and the fact that it's a portable.

I think the portability especially is what's ultimately going to carry the system to success. There just isn't much demand for pure Nintendo consoles anymore. Those have been on a steady decline if you exclude the Wii, which was, to use an overused expression, lightning in a bottle IMO. Nintendo's strength is definitely in portable gaming. That really makes me wonder if they'll keep the hybrid concept or not. They better have a strong gimmick for the next system if it doesn't turn out to be portable like the Switch, because their consoles don't really perform well at all.

KirbyTheVampire

rallydefault

@KirbyTheVampire
I agree with pretty much everything you said, although...

I have a crazy theory.

I think that Microsoft will exit the console space IF the Xbox One X does terribly. Big IF, obviously. I say this because their CEO is all about NEW experiences that their competitors aren't already doing. Examples: their all-but exit from the phone competition (I still have a Windows phone - they are awesome, in my opinion), augmented reality as opposed to straight-up VR, and their line up of Surface tablets that have really distinguished themselves from iPads and other tablets.

Basically, I really don't see the company wanting to hang in an iterative console market if they end up taking losses on the X. I mean, Xbox One is already maimed this generation in the sense of the "race" - it's selling very poorly compared to PS4, and both sides have always made it very clear they do consider one another direct competitors. Also, it's been very clear lately that nearly every Xbox One "exclusive" ALSO comes to the Windows platform in general, meaning exiting the console space doesn't necessarily mean an end to the games. Windows is still top-dog in the computing space.

IF Microsoft would pull out, I can see Nintendo having a slew of options in front of them for their next home console, if they would want to do one. Maybe they do a powerful competitor against Sony just like the good ol' days? Maybe they continue with "gimmicks." Who knows? Will be interesting.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

NEStalgia

@rallydefault "The social media age" really is the only thing in that post that matters most of all. That's the thing. Particularly for the age groups and social segments interested in gaming, overall, "follow the herd" is the ONLY thing that matters for ALL things. Nobody wants to be different or left out, everybody wants to be part of the herd. It goes beyond video games, but it does target the game consumer even more broadly than most. That's a bad thing not just in gaming but in society at large....

Though MS really DID amazingly screw up their entire brand in less than 20 minutes. I was fence sitting that E3 on which direction to go and even I was easily swayed to preorder PS4 after that video But "not going digital" is one of my big 3 criterion for console selection so it was a no brainer that day. PS4 had no games but reiterated physical media as a priority. XBox couldn't shut up about football and Call of Doggy. I figured not knowing about games had to be better than the games I DID know about that was XBox's ace in the hole

Switch does, so far, seem to be breaking that deathgrip though, mostly by targeting the modern mobile lifestyle. A "tablet" may not be awesome to "gamers" but a "VCR" isn't really awesome to the mass market. Tablets are

@kirbyTheVampire For Nintendo it's been kind of their own creation though. Yes, the kinds of games they make don't demand home theater systems, and thus fell out of favor as a console, but they've also split their focus since the 80's on two platforms, and, really, since the Wii/DS era, most of their "hardcore" games have been on handheld and NOT on console. If those games had been on console instead, and there had been no handheld, maybe the numbers would be different. They never really moved into the "games as movies" idea with Sony (which in hindsight, Sony's a movie and music company foremost, so it all makes sense.) Everyone forgets Wii was an exercise fad more than a console early on. The later life sales reflect it's position as a console better than the early sales. They seem to now understand this. Their REAL strength has been handheld/portable since the 90's. Even in the SNES era. Add in the modern era where MOST gaming is done mobile and only a specific market plays on a TV, Switch just makes sense, both for Nintendo, and for the market at large. It's one of those "why didn't anyone do this 10 years ago?" kind of things. Actually Vita tried, and then was mismanaged horribly.

NEStalgia

Grumblevolcano

@NEStalgia As Switch gets increasingly popular prepare for Switch Sports, Switch Fit and Switch Music to be announced at E3 2018/2019!

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

KirbyTheVampire

@rallydefault I don't know how well a powerful console would work for them. Nintendo doesn't really tend to make games that are all that ambitious. Maybe that's partly just a side effect of the hardware they've been working with, but I don't really see them making very many games like Horizon or The Witcher even if they did have the hardware for it. They have been delving into that more and more lately though, with the biggest example being Zelda, so who knows.

@NEStalgia

The numbers might have been pretty different, yeah. Like I said in the post above though, I'm not sure Nintendo really makes games that justify the power and price of a cutting-edge console, not to mention the lack of portability. People who are fans of consoles and PCs tend to be looking for super impressive and ambitious stuff, unfortunately, and Nintendo doesn't really provide that to the same extent Sony does. (Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I love Nintendo games. It's just not what console fans tend to want)

I can only imagine how well the Switch would have done back then, especially in the pre-smartphone/tablet era. I don't think the tech was there, though, unfortunately.

KirbyTheVampire

rallydefault

@NEStalgia
That's an excellent point - targeting the "mobile" age with the Switch.

It's a bold strategy. Let's see if it works out for them, Cotton.

rallydefault

NEStalgia

@KirbyTheVampire @rallydefault The real thing with "consoles looking for super impressive" isn't really ambition. BotW is far more ambitious than anything that's been put out by Ubi and EA for the last decade (excluding BG&E2 but that's YEARS away, and is post-BotW inspiration.) PC gamers, by and large are just tech junkies. They don't care about the game, they just want a tech demo to impress them with how amazing technology is. I know, I was one for long enough....

Console gamers, today, are looking for ambitious scale and visual effects. Well, BoTW has the scale down, but not the visuals. The trouble (or fate I suppose) is simply the merging of "gaming" and "home theater" into being part of the same "audio-visual spectacular" concept now. Sony started it (via using games to push their media formats) but now it's cemented that a "home console" is more like a Blu-ray player, it's there to give you an a-v sensory treat and push technology. It's not really that Nintendo drifted from the console market, so much as the console market drifted away from the gaming market and toward the HT market, while Nintendo (and Sega) stayed with gaming. The bad news is that means Nintendo type games don't suit the modern thinking of "consoles", while Nintendo-type fans (and old-skool PC fans who still play old-skool games on PC, not the graphics fests), don't really suit the modern thinking of consoles either. It's almost as though consoles have become an entirely separate market, different from the market that old consoles used to be. Fortunately handhelds (and Nintendo in general) stuck with "games as games", and serve the market for that (to a degree, so does mobile), and Switch really seems to be (as it should be) the glue that binds "games as games" thinking with the now frayed customer base looking for that across portable and home.

IMO, a game like Rabbids + Mario, and XC2 is massively more ambitious, in terms of the game, than Witcher and Horizon that's mostly a game that marries conventional play-it-safe and easy-to-understand gameplay in a big pretty world. I'm still looking forward to playing Horizon, it's in my pile still, but I know I'm getting kind of a snack-food experience out of that, while the others provide deep gameplay you have to really critically think. But that's not a typical HT extravaganza, while games like Horizon would lose most of their wow played on a 6" SCREEN.

Looking at what Switch is doing, the actual interaction is more like what games were in the 8/16 bit days. You PLAYED the game. Looking at that "big" experience on other consoles, it's a mix of cinema and interaction where the game kind of plays you. Both can be fun, which is why I own both, but I think the moniker of "interactive entertainment" fits the "modern" console, more than "games" does. Kind of a reversal.

NEStalgia

KirbyTheVampire

@NEStalgia Oh, I definitely agree. By ambitious, I just meant making games that are filled with eye candy and 4K resolution. In other words, games that rely on powerful hardware to be impressive. That was just a poor choice of words on my part.

But yeah, I like that Nintendo is pretty old school compared to a lot of the other companies. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy games like Uncharted and The Last of Us that are basically interactive movies, or flashy games like Horizon, and I'm glad that those niches in the market are filled, but I also really enjoy Nintendo's approach where they make actual games where the gameplay is the draw, rather than the story or eye candy.

KirbyTheVampire

NEStalgia

@KirbyTheVampire Ahh, yeah. Same, I do enjoy them, but for me those kinds of games are kind of a rare indulgence rather than staple gaming. We tend to think of PSXBox as "mainstream" but it's "mainstream entertainment" rather than "mainstream gaming". I.E. it's played by a lot of people that don't actually really play games, just engages with entertainment experiences, really a different market entirely. PC is big, but what percentage of PC gaming is made up by blockbusters versus games like DOTA, Overwatch, simulations, spreadsheets-as-games, MMOs, RTSs etc? PC is as weird niche as Nintendo is at the heart of it, and more Nintendo-like than Playstation-like for a good majority of it's base. PSXBox certainly has the "interactive movies" thing down. It reaches more people, but I wonder if you were to run a survey among actual "dedicated game players" versus "consumers who have purchased video games in the last 2 years", if you'd find the majority of responses lining up on Nintendo/PC more than PSXBox and the AAA factories. It's a "niche' but it's a niche with its wallets open for decades at a time

NEStalgia

KirbyTheVampire

@NEStalgia I'm sure that is the case for PC and Nintendo gamers, PC especially. After all, most people wouldn't build/buy a gaming PC unless they wanted to play games at least semi-regularly.

KirbyTheVampire

Octane

In what way is Horizon a ''flashy'' game though? It has one of the most satisfying combat systems. If the game was half the resolution, I'd still play it from start till finish.

I also disagree on The Witcher 3, that has to be one of the most ambitious games ever made.

Octane

rallydefault

@Octane
I think he means "flashy" in that the graphics are heavily emphasized as a selling point toward the consumer. And to be honest, the graphics are very nice in that game. Beats the heck out of BotW.

And yea, we have to defend Witcher 3 here. It is one of the most well-done games of the last decade by an awesome company. But personally, I'm done with the same-y combat style a lot of these open world games have had for also the past decade, but you have to give credit to Witcher 3 for its content and the way they crafted that world.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

Octane

@rallydefault HZD is a good looking game, but sometimes it feels as if people think visuals and gameplay are mutually exclusive. There's a lot more to HZD than just pretty graphics. It is very much a video game in the same way BOTW is a video game. If people are buying HZD any game because it looks good, then they're buying it for the wrong reason IMO.

I also think that a non-realistic game can look good. I think ARMS is visually very impressive, but I don't think they're selling it on graphics alone. And I'm not going to suggest they should tone down the visuals or anything like that.

Octane

rallydefault

@Octane
I agree 100%. In all honesty, I just find all three: Witcher, Horizon, AND BotW kind of disappointing when it comes to gameplay. Very same-y with what you mostly see on consoles these days. I do lean toward Zelda because, admittedly, I've loved the series my entire life, but just little touches (like jumping, the seemingly limitless physics possibilities, quirky characters, light dungeon puzzle solving) push it slightly above the other two in terms of "fun" for me.

But to be clear: I think adventure/action console gaming is getting very stale and repetitive. I'm sick of crafting pouches. I'm sick of scaling towers to reveal map portions. I'm sick of collecting 50 boar tusks to make serving of Boar Soup. Mass Effect, Witcher, Horizon, Tomb Raider, BotW, and many more: all guilty of this. I find it very frustrating as a fan of adventure games. I long for gameplay more like the original Tomb Raiders where you can ADVENTURE and explore cool locations without having to manage an inventory/crafting/recipe system that makes you feel like you're playing a restaurant manager simulator.

rallydefault

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