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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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Octane

@gcunit There's an introduction area and you're free to do whatever you want, but you can't leave until you've completed a certain amount of tasks. Now guess what game I'm talking about? Surprise, it's both! I don't see the difference TBH. It's pretty standard stuff for an open world game to have some kind of introduction area. The Witcher did the same thing, Infamous did the same thing. Heck, even Gravity Rush restricts how much you're allowed to explore until you unlock more of the world.

Octane

gcunit

@Octane 'You control a character and you move about fighting things and completing tasks until you complete the ultimate task' - guess the game

To me there was a very apparent difference between the first hour in each game.

Edited on by gcunit

Use the 'ignore' button, it works.

Currently playing: Rocket League; Splatoon 2; Super Mario Odyssey; Fire Emblem; Suikoden; Kirby Triple Deluxe; ICO; Gravity Rush; Ratchet & Clank; Red Faction: Guerilla; Fez; FIFA 18

Nothing is true; Everything is permitted.

Octane

I'd never judge a game on its first hour. If I did that, Twilight Princess wouldn't even come close to my top 10 best games of all time list.

Octane

StuTwo

@NEStalgia Great posts.

I always find it quite interesting that Sony is really a media and media platforms company. They came into video games from a music and film publishing background and they have always (for better and worse) treated video games as something emergent from or complementary to music and film. Their marketing reflects this and it suits them for the industry to line up nicely into that mould.

Microsoft came into video games from a different angle. They see video games from a technology platform standpoint, helping to plug people into a technology ecosystem. Hence the focus from the very beginning on online infrastructure and competition online.

Nintendo by contrast is a toy company. They still see video games as a high-tech toy - it's in their DNA.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

NEStalgia

@StuTwo Spot on! For better or worse, Sony tapping film and music for gaming, especially in the PS2 era fundamentally reshaped the future of gaming. It did reach a new, bigger audience but it was an audience looking for something other than what gaming had always been. At their heart most of the "console wars" are really clashes between the ideologies of games being games/toys, and games being a movie-like experience. Though, it's with a great bit of irony that Mr. "games don't need stories" himself, Miyamoto, is the one who first invented the concept of having stories in games to begin with with the original Donkey Kong cabinet (the artwork on the cabinet told part of the story, but it was the first game to have a progression of levels that actually developed the story of events, primitive as it was.) So even Sony's story driven view of games, really still comes back to Miyamoto (even if he hates the idea now...)

I think most of the rest of the industry lining up with Sony was largely a mixture of Sony's PS2 success becoming the driving focus for third party, mixed with most of the artists/creators in the industry REALLY wanted to work in Hollywood (and get Hollywood pay...) and since gaming was the best they could get, they ran with their Hollywood thinking creating what they wanted to create...which was film. The current AAA studio model is a "studio" in the 1920's sense of the word. MGM, Columbia (now Sony), Universal.

Nintendo, Miyamoto's even described himself as a toy maker, specifically, before. However, I think that's simplistic. I'd argue that "sandbox games" are more of toys than what Nintendo creates. Those are games where there's no real structure, you create your own fun with the objects provided, with a bit of guidance. When I think of a traditional toy, Fallout 4 and GTA are much more a toy than ARMS and Fire Emblem and Mario Odyssey. Nintendo hardware comes across toy-like, but I think the focus on their software rolls off the tongue a lot worse: "systems-driven." They excel in creating very tight, controlled systems. Specifically systems that form gratification loops and addictive behavior. Moreso than a toymaker, Nintendo's games represent that OTHER meaning of the word "gaming"....gambling devices. Except, where gambling machines are designed to compel the player to part with as much money as possible, Nintendo gives the same gratification loop without the cost. Pure entertainment through the interaction, versus a more passive interactivity with a narrative media. In that context the nature of the two couldn't be more opposite.

Though what's interesting is the heart of PC (not the "woohoo I have a 3-way SLI and can run Batman in 8k with maximum details I'm so much better than you because I spent $4500 on this!" crowd that are just tech enthusiasts), but the bulk of dedicated PC players, the MMOs, the DOTA, SCII players, etc, and, interestingly, mobile gaming (bad as it is) employs the Nintendo concept of "gaming" more than the Sony concept, leaving the film/music model as, in actuality, the smaller niche.

The difference with mobile being, of course, it's more of an ACTUAL casino, being actual cash driven, and the systems are generally far more simplistic to the point of being mostly automated (virtual slot machines vs. pachinko.)

Microsoft....that's the complicated one, and their market position reflects it. Nintendo were expert toymakers turned expert "games(gambling style, sans the expense/risk)" makers. Sony were film/music producers that merged games into their template. Microsoft was just an OS maker who held a pseudo monopoly on the dominant 3D API (DirectX), which enslaved most games to Windows versus rival OS platforms. They were seeing their control eroding as Sonys star was rising, and put together XBox (1...meaning not One...but..1...ugh...) to stem the losses and reinstate DirectX as a mandatory API for the industry, thus securing Windows lock on gaming (and moving Windows into the living room as convergence was beginning as a concept.) As such, their main contribution/template was in bringing what had traditionally been PC style gaming to the console space. Shooters, especially. But the problem is their own experience even in PC gaming was awful. Microsoft Game Studios was a disaster of an operation that was canned (then resurrected in name in the XBox era, but really just as a name.) Prior, in the PC world, big simulations, especially Flight Simulator was their main output. But that wouldn't fly on consoles and was already cancelled on PC. AoE was a masterpiece, but they had already disbanded Ensemble. They tried to buy FASA and it was a disaster in motion, all but annihilating the Mech Warrior/Battletech franchise games forever more. Trying to bring that kind of "expertise" into the console space ended predictably, with Phil's infamous "1st party isn't all that important" outlook, and the dearth of exclusive games on their current platform. They brought PC gaming to the console space, but once that also moved to other platforms, they lost their hook and don't have much expertise in related fields to have a unique hook. They're down to, as you said, the ecosystem focusing on online infrastructure and online, molding it mostly because it fits the company's overall new direction as primarily a cloud services company, though their flagging sales relative to expense on maintaining the ecosystem shows the cracks in their model. The online-focused ecosystem isn't going to generate the revenues the film-focused ecosystem will, but costs way more to make than the lower-sales but lower-cost "Nintendo" (gambling) style games. 1X is a classic Microsoft solution "have problems? Buy a more powerful computer!" They're desperately searching for their "hook" and "better online" is working only because Sony inexplicably can't figure out how to not do it wrong. Most of their contributions to the industry have thus far been easily clonable by Sony because none of them stemmed from having a particular expertise in a field but were merely the fruits of being a monopoly, while their actual field expertise has no real synergy with gaming/entertainment other than as a hardware/infrastructure provider. XBox is kind of the closest answer to the question "What if Bell Telephone made a games console?" (I mock it in jest only. I don't like their online focus as I hate online gaming overall, but I gravely dislike Sony's burgeoning monopoly in gaming, so I'd like XBox to find their hook, even if they do have to be thrown out of Microsoft to do it.)

NEStalgia

Spanjard

Octane wrote:

I'd never judge a game on its first hour. If I did that, Twilight Princess wouldn't even come close to my top 10 best games of all time list.

Make that 10 hours instead. You would also have to pretend OoT didn't exist for this game to be considered a great game. It's ok.

SW-7849-9887-2074

3DS Friend Code: 3754-7789-7523 | Nintendo Network ID: Longforgotten

rallydefault

I'm very weird; I greatly enjoy the starting/tutorial areas of most games, even those that last an hour or a even a few. There's just something wicked fun about building up to the adventure to come and "learning the ropes" before you're set loose.

To this day, the Kokiri Forest and Deku Tree are some of my favorite parts of Ocarina, and sometimes I'll go back and start new files to play JUST that section. I've finished the game probably a dozen times or so, but I'll still do this.

(I'm hopelessly addicted to this in WoW - I'm that guy who creates new characters all the time, levels up through the starting zone, and then abandons the character.) I just love those beginning experiences, even stuff like Twlight Princess (herding and all).

rallydefault

Octane

@rallydefault It's alright I think, but TP gets a lot better after the first few hours. However now you mention it, I always prefer the first few hours of a Pokemon game over the rest.

Octane

gcunit

@rallydefault I'm happy playing through tutorial sections, but half of HZD's first hour is cut scenes, watching talking dolls.

Anywho, the Switch.... still wicked. Want to get Splatoon next, but need another voucher like I found for ARMS.

Use the 'ignore' button, it works.

Currently playing: Rocket League; Splatoon 2; Super Mario Odyssey; Fire Emblem; Suikoden; Kirby Triple Deluxe; ICO; Gravity Rush; Ratchet & Clank; Red Faction: Guerilla; Fez; FIFA 18

Nothing is true; Everything is permitted.

MisterPi

rallydefault wrote:

I'm very weird; I greatly enjoy the starting/tutorial areas of most games, even those that last an hour or a even a few. There's just something wicked fun about building up to the adventure to come and "learning the ropes" before you're set loose.

To this day, the Kokiri Forest and Deku Tree are some of my favorite parts of Ocarina, and sometimes I'll go back and start new files to play JUST that section. I've finished the game probably a dozen times or so, but I'll still do this.

(I'm hopelessly addicted to this in WoW - I'm that guy who creates new characters all the time, levels up through the starting zone, and then abandons the character.) I just love those beginning experiences, even stuff like Twlight Princess (herding and all).

I completely agree! It really sets the tone and atmosphere for the rest of the game for me, and gives me a chance to just enjoy the crafted world instead of jumping straight to the action where I may take it for granted.

Edited on by MisterPi

MisterPi

MisterPi

He's just bringing Switch news, regardless of what it says. But no, I don't think many people were hoping for a Witness port.

MisterPi

Ralizah

Not surprised.

Anyone watch his recent livestream of BotW?

...it's bad.

Edited on by Ralizah

Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

SKTTR

Here's the Switch eShop EU release list for July:

2017.07.20 ??,??€ [CART] Cave Story+ (Nicalis / Pikii)
2017.07.20 ??,??€ [CART] Redout (Nicalis / 34BigThings)
2017.07.?? 44,99€ [CART] RiME (U&I Entertainment / Tantalus / Tequila Works / Greybox / Sixfoot)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [CART] Stardew Valley (Chucklefish / Concerned Ape)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Abraca: Imagic Games - Switch Edition (Ankama)
2017.07.?? 7,99€ [DL] Bulb Boy (Bulbware)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Constructor HD (System 3)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Cube Life: Island Survival HD (Cypronia)
2017.07.?? 4,99€ [DL] Physical Contact: SPEED (Collavier)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Pocket Rumble (Chucklefish / Cardboard Robot Games)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Shakedown Hawaii (Vblank Entertainment)
2017.07.?? ??,??€ [DL] Spelunker World (Square Enix / Tozai Games)

2017.10.31 ??,??€ [CART] Monopoly (Ubisoft / Engine Software)
2017.07.31 29,99€ [CART] Sine Mora EX (THQ Nordic / Grasshopper Manufacture / Digital Reality)

2017.07.21 ??,??€ [CART] Splatoon 2 (Nintendo)
2017.07.21 54,99€ [CART] Fate/EXTELLA: The Umbral Star (Marvelous Europe / TYPE-MOON)

2017.07.14 39,99€ [CART] The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+ (Nicalis / Edmund McMillen / Headup Games)

2017.07.13 9,99€ [DL] Death Squared (SMG Studio)
2017.07.13 9,99€ [DL] Rocket Fist (Bitten Toast Games)

2071.07.06 12,00€ [DL] IMPLOSION: Never Lose Hope (Flyhigh Works / Rayark / ESQUADRA)
2017.07.06 9,99€ [DL] I and Me (Ratalaika Games / Wish Fang / indienova)
2017.07.06 9,99€ [DL] Vaccine (Rainy Frog / Ratalaika Games / Rainy Night Creations)
2017.07.06 10,99€ [DL] De Mambo (DangerousKitchen / Chorus Worldwide)
2017.07.06 4,99€ [DL] Shephy (ARC SYSTEM WORKS / Pawn / Adventure Planning Service)
2017.07.06 6,99€ [ACA/NG] Metal Slug 2 (HAMSTER / SNK)

backloggery.com/SKTTR

JoeDiddley

Does anyone know if this run of Cave Story has the cd & booklet - or just limited copies?

I've ordered presuming they'll be included, but then realised that might be an assumption. I've contacted Amazon as it's not dispatched yet, but not sure if I'll get an answer in time. The product listing doesn't say either way.

Switch: SW-2923-8106-2126
Twitter: @mrjoediddley

Octane

@BLP_Software It's one of the best puzzle games of all time, so I'd love to see it be available to as many people as possible.

Octane

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