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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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BLP_Software

Didnt go well for me. Only had two full none disconnecting matches. Bit concerning.

BLP_Software

NEStalgia

@DefHalan It's what you expect in a normal year from Nintendo based on what criteria? Based on the WiiU? We're already excelling over the WiiU. Based on 3DS and Wii? Dev times and costs are way way shorter for those platforms. That's the big HD roadblock that torpedoed WiiU. The yearly release schedule for WiiU is Nintendo's "normal" output for HD. WHich means a year with a number of good games then a year with next to nothing, then another two good games, then 8 months with nothing. If you're basing Nintendo normal output quantity on SD and sub-SD platforms that's a dead argument before it begins. Switch already does have a lot more content than the past.

It should be noted it's not just Nintendo. Years ago the director of Assassin's Creed, speaking for Ubisoft addressed a GDC question that he sees the future of AAA as focusing all resources and efforts on maybe 2-3 franchises for each major publisher and paring back on most other content. He was right. Ubi actually has a lot of content and followed that pattern the least (but their quality is questionable often enough), EA really has about 4 franchises and that's it. Activision has done the same. Quantity versus the past has been and will continue to be pared back across the entire industry versus the past because of the resources required for each product.

So 9 games in 10 months may be what you expect from Nintendo, but that certainly isn't from the HD era Nintedo that was lucky to have 5 games in 12 months on a good year. That's pushing it for most major devs. Sure PS4 is having a banner year, but it's their FIRST banner year since console launch in what will be 4 years ago by the time the banner year is done.

Maybe you wanted to see more year 1 first party AAA games on Switch, but I'm still not sure that was ever a reasonable expectation. Even Sony would struggle mightily to put out more content than that (and failed, majorly to put out even close to that content in their own launch year.) WiiU was a console that never had the games ready in the beinning. Everything they worked on 4 years ago was what released in the past 2. Switch starts from scratch a year or two ago. You keep talking about this backlog of games they should have ready to go, but by the time they got done finishing up the WiiU games they had already promised and started at WiiU launch, that left us at this point 1-2 years into development of Switch games. Getting back to a "normal" release schedule IS the big payoff. They haven't been there in 4 years. And with 3DS winding down that moves more resources into the pool moving forward to keep that pace going without the huge gaps we've experienced.

All that being said, I have to get some Zelda in and work on Blaster Master Zero before the Splatoon demo all before Has-Been Heroes, Snakepass, and my physical import of Setsuna all arrive next week for my Nintendo Switch that allegedly has no content, lest the backlog become too great

NEStalgia

IceClimbers

@NEStalgia I'd have to agree there. With Wii U and 3DS they were really thrown off. They didn't prepare properly for the 3DS launch and after it's disastrous start they went into emergency mode with their development resources to get the 3DS off the ground, negatively impacting the Wii U in the process. At that same time they had to go through the same struggles with learning HD development that the rest of the industry had already gone through. Nintendo got thrown into a pendulum swing between the two systems as a result.

Now they're finally out of that and can return to a normal dev cycle.

3DS Friend Code: 2363-5630-0794

DefHalan

@NEStalgia based on competition. As established before, last year Microsoft put out 8 games and Sony put out about 20 for their home consoles (some people don't want to include PSVR even though they are PS4 games and PSVR is an accessory, so then it would be about 12) However keep in mind that Nintendo relies more on their 1st party content while the other two rely on 3rd party content.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

BigBadJohn

I've been reading all this chatter about how many games one platform release in a year versus how many another releases and I cant help thinking your missing the point. Surely the most important thing is quality. Don't get me wrong I'm crazy for the switch and at the moment I know that the Big N could really take advantage of me by releasing any old crud game with a Switch sticker on it and I'd probably buy it. The thing is Nintendo have a great reputation for releasing quality games so I'm happy for them to take their time and release stuff when its ready. I'm not going to slag off any specific publisher but we've all played games that where rushed out that are so full of bugs it makes them borderline unplayable.

On a more serious note when are Nintendo going to announce Animal Crossing Switch? If they dont hurry up Im going to dust off my pitchfork and storm the gates!

SW-5512-0541-9236

Name the movie quote "Toolshed!"

Jhena

Honestly i would starve with only Nintendo. But then again i would starve with only one of the other platforms either. Even PC. Theres just to much great stuff scattered. Nintendo switch feels pretty much like the end of wii u (didnt buy it when first released) right now. Waiting like a half year for a new game. So im accastumed to it and can live with it. But i dont aprove.

Jhena

Nintendo Network ID: Traumwanderer

DefHalan

@BigBadJohn Quality vs Quanity argument is valid, I just propose Quality and Quanity. Just because you have one doesn't mean you can't have the other. And it isn't like I was expecting a new game every week

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

canucksfan989

@DefHalan Off topic a little bit but apply that to the fast food industry and no you can't have quality and quantity making 100s of burgers a day there will be a few crappy ones that get sent back and a few that people are thinking about taking back but don't want to bother doing it. Sure the majority of burgers are fine but doing that much quantity you will have some that don't have the same quality as the others.

canucksfan989

DefHalan

@canucksfan989 And that is fine. Variety of amount of quality is a given no matter what. Nintendo can also do smaller games and bigger games. There is no reason why every retail release has to be Breath of the Wild big and quality. Sometimes you get Mario Sports games, Box Box Boy, Dillion's Rolling Western, or Star Fox Zero. Different amounts of quality, but with more teams, maybe Nintendo could increase their quantity. Not every game needs to have Miyamoto overseeing it

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

skywake

DefHalan wrote:

@skywake So we are comparing Switch and Wii U to be about even during the holidays, which wasn't good for the Wii U but ot is good for Switch?

You can't have it both ways. You said this:

DefHalan wrote:

So it will be difficult for them to announce something and release it without stepping on the toes of all the games they are releasing in the second half of the year. So I doubt we will see new game announcements for 2017 releases, most likely push them to next year.

Which is why I posted this. Wii U median release rates per quarter:
Q1: ~0.4 games/mo
Q2: ~0.6 games/mo
Q3: ~0.1 games/mo
Q4: ~1.6 games/mo

vs what the Switch is currently sitting on:
Q1: ~1.0 game/mo
Q2: ~0.6 game/mo
Q3: ~0.6 games/mo
Q4: ~0.6 games/mo

Once again, Wii U median:
Q4: ~1.6 games/mo

Switch as it is:
Q4: ~0.6 games/mo

You said:

DefHalan wrote:

it will be difficult for them to announce something and release it without stepping on the toes of all the games they are releasing in the second half of the year.

BS! The Wii U was seen as a platform with no games. Even it had a more packed Q4 on a regular basis. That was my post, I wasn't comparing the Wii U to the Switch and arguing that the Switch is good because it's doing better. I was saying that there's room for a few more releases in Q4 without them "stepping on the toes of all the games" because the Wii U had more content on average in that quarter. Do I need to spell everything out for you?

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

DefHalan

@skywake No, I just don't read walls of text very often, and just skim for whatever catches my eye. I like how my comments about pure speculation is coming down to numbers. Ok, Wii U had more 1st party games released during the holiday season, and somehow, me expecting more games on the Switch is crazy talk... got it. So now I know that lol

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

IceClimbers

Fire Emblem Warriors, Super Mario Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2 (assuming it isn't delayed) are the only games they have scheduled for the 2nd half of the year. Splatoon 2 may very well release in June (or maybe even May if they swap it with ARMS, which is "Spring"). Regardless, there's plenty of space for a few games in there. How about, say, Smash Bros Deluxe, some other game, and Pokemon Stars?

3DS Friend Code: 2363-5630-0794

BLP_Software

No matter what channel, no matter what time: I keep seeing Switch ads. 1-2-Switch, Zelda, both...all over every channel here in the UK.

BLP_Software

skywake

DefHalan wrote:

@skywake No, I just don't read walls of text very often, and just skim for whatever catches my eye. I like how my comments about pure speculation is coming down to numbers. Ok, Wii U had more 1st party games released during the holiday season, and somehow, me expecting more games on the Switch is crazy talk... got it. So now I know that lol

As I said, you're wanting it both ways. You whine that there's not enough content so I created a graph that actually helped you with your point. 2017 as we know it at this stage is a bit under par. So I don't think you're crazy for expecting more games than we currently know about. I expect the same.

Though when I go further? When I say that E3 is around the corner and we'll probably find about new games there? For some reason you don't want to hear that. You try to come up with reasons why that couldn't possibly happen. Your latest argument being that there won't be more games at E3 because Q3/Q4 is packed. I point to the fact that it's less packed than Q3/Q4 usually is so you bring the argument back to whining about a lack of games.

What you're doing is creating a circular argument. You don't have a point except to whine about the schedule from whatever angle you can. It's both too thin to be decent AND too packed for anything to be added. If you were being fair minded here you'd realise that it can't be both. But you're not because you'd rather be right than reasonable

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

skywake

BLP_Software wrote:

No matter what channel, no matter what time: I keep seeing Switch ads. 1-2-Switch, Zelda, both...all over every channel here in the UK.

Here it's mostly Arms and Mario Kart 8. Honestly I think that the level that they're advertising Arms in particular makes me thing it's coming out earlier than we expect. I'm thinking May at this point.

IceClimbers wrote:

Regardless, there's plenty of space for a few games in there. How about, say, Smash Bros Deluxe, some other game, and Pokemon Stars?

Yeah, I think if we get something else it'll probably be two big retail releases and something smaller like Snipperclips. But those big releases will be ones that they had a reason for not telling us about at this stage. That's what history would say is likely for Q4 in addition to Super Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade Chronicles 2. If I was to take a random stab in the dark? I'd guess something along the lines of:

October: Skyward Sword HD
November: Super Mario Odyssey, Pokemon Stars
December: Xenoblade Chronicles 2, SNES Remix

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

OorWullie

Surely Retro's new game will be ready for release by the end of the year,.By the time Xmas comes,it will be just shy of 4 years since Tropical Freeze released.They've never gone more than 4 years between releases so I think it's safe to assume we'll be seeing whatever they've been working on at E3.With that,Mario Odyssey,Xenoblade 2,Pokemon Stars and the Zelda DLC,that's a killer line up for the holidays.With a line up like that I don't think Nintendo need to be too concerned about the threat of Scorpio launching.

Edited on by OorWullie

Nintendo Network ID: Ar_Tee_Es

My Super Mario Maker Levels

My Wii U Collection

Nintendo Network ID: Ar_Tee_Es

NEStalgia

@DefHalan You can't compare Nintendo's output quantity to its competitors out of context to their histories. 20 games with PSVR, 12 games without is pretty big. Do you have a list of those games? Even the 12 for PS4 seems high to me. PS4's having a great year, but I'm not recalling what those are ATM. Are any of them digital-only type games or are those all large scale retail games?

Regardless, you can only compare Nintendo to Nintendo, especially in light of your basis being a comparison to the time not spent on WiiU development. You also can't compare PS1, PS2 had far more Sony published games than N64 and GCN, they approach their releases differently. Nintendo depends more on 1st party, but has not always had the most 1st party QUANTITY, but had exclusive games that were highly in demand and sell well for long durations of time. In the N64 era they actively believed that a fixed library of 25 games or so total for the platform was more than enough. It was Sony (and Sega) that pushed the whole quantity idea like it's movies being pumped out of a studio. That's always been their thing is to keep disposable games coming fast. They run on different sales models in regard to first party. A Sony game is considered one and done, a few months after release its discounted and considered done its run, mimicing their film busness (Sony/Columbia/Tristar Pictures), Ninteod plans on long tail continuous sales over years at full price. Different models, different outputs.

Comparing Nintendo to Nintendo, which was the original point of the exercise, we have to compare HD Nintendo to HD Nintendo. That can be debated against SD nintendo against the industry backdrop as a whole.

If we're just doing a Sony vs Nintendo argument, that's a whole different thing, possibly better sent to GameFaqs.

NEStalgia

DefHalan

@NEStalgia do I have to point out how crazy this is or do you see it?

Edited on by DefHalan

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

NEStalgia

@DefHalan Don't tell me you really HAVE been wasting everyone's time with a whole PSXBoxPC vs. Nintendo thing and just masquerading it as a "Nintendo's output in the absence of WiiU" topic, have you? You didn't seem like one of those.

The WiiU era had Nintendo at a defect due to the variety of issues going on. Getting back on track involved closing the gap on that defect which involved double the effort. That's not news. They don't even hide that. If your issue was that you felt that the output on Switch didn't match the missing timeline during the gap, that's an issue to debate about here. If your issue is just comparing the Sony ecosystem to Nintendo and arriving at the age old "but Nintendo has less games", there's plenty of gaming sites that would embrace that conversation since 2004, but that's not what this crowd is generally about.

You've been cherry picking top years during mid-console cycle figures, comparing it to Nintendo launch year figures, then ignoring Nintendo's history, ignoring industry reality, and then ignoring the different market approaches between each company even though those approaches haven't changed in 15+ years. Are you genuinely interested in discussing the turnaround times of games and where the WiiU gap time went, or are you really just interested in following the "Nintendo vs. PSXboxPC as direct competitors" meme? So far, I and others have been engaging the conversation taking your word that it's the former.

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@IceClimbers Exactly this. In truth even without the 3DS efforts the WiiU fate wouldn't have been much different. They were just too unprepared for HD. Catching up on 3DS was easy enough, it just required a committed push. But all that was required for the HD move was more than they bargained for. I also still believe that a lot of relationships with third parties were made with a wink, nod, and gentleman's agreement, and then they bailed before doing much of anything, after promising they'd use the nintendo-free launch period to stack it with third party games. Iwata, I fear, was too trusting and too oblivious of the industry outside the Nintendo bubble to realize what their actual position was. But when it comes to Switch we can't forget it's still his system and he built it in the shadow of all that as a response to it.

NEStalgia

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