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Topic: What controller do you want to see bundled with NX?

Posts 61 to 80 of 95

DefHalan

@rallydefault: I still think games being designed for a standard controller is a big factor. Mouse & Keyboard supremacy is a thing of the past becausegame design has changed.That is why bindling a unique controller with the console, instead as an optional accessory works out better. PC has become a seconday market and most games are designed around the controller. If there were a lot games designed around the Wii Remote released on PC then maybe more people would be buying motion controllers for PC.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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iKhan

rallydefault wrote:

I think it certainly has most of the impact, but at the same time, PC gamers are an enterprising bunch, and if they REALLY wanted to use a certain controller, word would get around and lots of people would be doing it. So even amongst the entire selection available to them, a "traditional" controller remains the favorite.

The most popular controller also has something to do with the barrier to entry though. A DS2 style controller is often the easiest way to go, so you are going to see a majority of people switch to that. That doesn't mean it's everyone's favorite, just that most people weren't interested in going through the work to make another scheme happen.

rallydefault wrote:

See, I don't know what to say to you, because I just disagree with you on a fundamental level, and that's ok. I HATE motion controls, and there are lots of people who share the same feeling. You LOVE motion controls, and there are lots of people who share the same feeling. It's as simple as that. We have totally different viewpoints, but neither are wrong. It's up to Nintendo to decide which way they want to go.

I think the best route to take is the one that makes the most options available to the most people. Even you recognize that a lot of people like motion controls. Nintendo not offering motion controls with their system completely removes that option from anyone who isn't going to mod PC games. On the other side, people now get to play an additional 20-30 Nintendo games the way they want to.

If Nintendo does include motion controls, all those benefits I mentioned are now available to those who want them. On the other side, people who dislike motion controls can't play 20-30 Nintendo games the way they want to, but they still have thousands of games on other platforms available to them exactly the way they want them.

Edited on by iKhan

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TuVictus

It will be strange to see Nintendo carry on the Wii remote past two generations of hardware. But I can't say I'll hate it. After all, games like Pikmin and Metroid Prime become extremely hard to play without them. I just hope they don't feel the need to put every control configuration into every game. Just because it seems like it would be such a hassle for them.

TuVictus

AtomiCartridge

I just hope the next Smash game has Gamecube controller support. The Gamecube controller is literally perfect for Smash Brothers.

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ogreatgames

The controller could be a controller that the world has never seen before in the shape of a cube which would be great to see!

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shaneoh

ogreatgames wrote:

The controller could be a controller that the world has never seen before in the shape of a cube which would be great to see!

A cube or a sphere, or two smaller ones that fit in each hand. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with them.

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rallydefault

@iKhan: ... but your way just continues the alienation of a large portion of the market. Tons of people are fed up and done with motion controls - they've voted with their wallets, and the results are in: the Wii brand is not doing well, the Kinect is all but abandoned for console gaming, and Playstation's motion wand thingies...yea, haven't heard about them recently, either.

Your choice would be another horrible business decision for Nintendo, closing themselves off from more and more gamers and therefore more and more money. You may view motion controls as actually breaking DOWN a barrier, and I MAY agree for very particular subsets of people, but overall, the "gaming" crowd, as in, the people will actually stick with your console and continue to buy games beyond Wii Fit and Wii Sports, have already done the whole motion control thing and are over it.

@DefHalan
See above^
I think most people are done with motion controls. And keyboard/mouse is arguably bigger than ever on PC. Huge games like the flood of MOBAs use mouse and board, FPS, strategy... the most-played genres on PC.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

DefHalan

rallydefault wrote:

See above^
I think most people are done with motion controls. And keyboard/mouse is arguably bigger than ever on PC. Huge games like the flood of MOBAs use mouse and board, FPS, strategy... the most-played genres on PC.

MOBAs and Strategy games are generally designed around a Keyboard and mouse, FPSs are designed around Controllers and a lot of people have given up on KB/Mouse supremacy for newer FPSs. I tried to play Battlefield 4 with KB/Mouse and that was terrible, the game is designed for a Controller. I don't think people are done with motion controls, especially with the popularity of VR. The VR Helmets use motion and people are hoping for controllers that allow for more movement with VR. Many people have complained about the disconnect between moving their heads in game but nothing else. Motion Controls were a big bubble and it popped, but that doesn't mean people are done forever with them. Motion controls can come back especially if they are able to design a controller where you don't lose any functionality compared to other controllers. (look at my ideas from earlier in this thread)

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

iKhan

rallydefault wrote:

@iKhan: ... but your way just continues the alienation of a large portion of the market. Tons of people are fed up and done with motion controls - they've voted with their wallets, and the results are in: the Wii brand is not doing well, the Kinect is all but abandoned for console gaming, and Playstation's motion wand thingies...yea, haven't heard about them recently, either.

Your choice would be another horrible business decision for Nintendo, closing themselves off from more and more gamers and therefore more and more money. You may view motion controls as actually breaking DOWN a barrier, and I MAY agree for very particular subsets of people, but overall, the "gaming" crowd, as in, the people will actually stick with your console and continue to buy games beyond Wii Fit and Wii Sports, have already done the whole motion control thing and are over it.

The basis for your argument is flawed. Yes, the Wii brand is not doing well, but the current platform using the Wii brand doesn't really use motion controls very much. The very reason I'm against optional motion controls is that you get a Move/Kinect situation, where the install base of the peripheral is smaller than the platform as a whole, and developers have no incentive to develop for it. This is the case whether 75% of the install base owns the peripheral or 10% owns it. Hell, even Uncharted and The Last of Us, which are objectively more suited for pointer controls due to their gameplay, doesn't use Move. Yes, Kinect was bundled with XB1, but I invite you to name me one non-dance/fitness game that demonstrates any potential for Kinect as a platform. That didn't change after Kinect was bundled, so why would anyone show any interest in the device?

If you really want to show that people are over motion controls, you would need usage data on games that still support motion controls like Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3, Splatoon, and Hyrule Warriors. I don't have that data either, but I'm just going to speculate from personal interactions. Because this is just my personal experience, this is by no means objectively true.

From what I've read and heard, most people enjoy Splatoon's motion controls, and people consider them the superior way to play Pikmin. Most people I've spoken to online say they prefer Nunchuck/Gamepad/Pro Controller controls for Mario Kart (Even I don't like motion steering), but at the same time, whenever I play Mario Kart Wii with people who aren't familiar with video games, they jump to the motion option. I can't sugar coat anything for Hyrule Warriors, I've heard nothing but hate. So from my speculation, it's more mixed than anything.

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skywake

@DefHalan:
I don't know, I think it's more complicated than just saying KB/Mouse is no-longer king on PC. I mean sure for single player story driven games there isn't the skill involved there used to be. Games are littered with QTEs and aim-assist so it's not a huge deal. And ontop of that PC games are slowly starting to move to the TV in their own right. As someone who plays platformers and racing games mostly I still use a controller more... but I still fall back on KB/Mouse in a lot of the bigger titles.

GTA for example, which I really need to get back to rather than just play Splatoon, I spent most of the time playing with a controller. Pretty much exclusively. However when I get to a hard mission involving shooting or do something similar online? KB/Mouse all the way. Immediately. Because I've tried a controller in that situation and it's almost impossible in comparison given I have aim-assist turned off.

........ although I will say that if shooters started using the Splatoon motion-enhanced control scheme? I'd seriously consider dumping the KB/Mouse far more often. And it's a real shame that people outside of the already converted on motion controls won't even give it a shot. Both splatoon and even if they do the motion control option.

Edited on by skywake

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DefHalan

@skywake: It is more complicated than that, I was just trying to simplify it. I don't think Standard Controllers are so popular with consumers because there is such a high demand for them by consumers. I think the reason why controllers are so high in demand by consumers is because developers are designing for them. Controllers, just like KB/Mouse and Motion Controls, are not best for all types of games, there are many different games that benefit from different control options. Developers have been designing around the Standard Controller and that is why they are so popular, in my opinion. If more games were designed around Motion Controls, there would be more options for Motion Control gaming.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

rallydefault

@iKhan: See, it still just boils down to preference, though. If you want to use more "accurate" data (in your words) by looking at current "motion"-capable games like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon, I have to say that I would wager the feedback would be roughly 50/50. In other words, I'm fairly confident you would NOT see a majority of people preferring the motion controls.

For Mario Kart 8, it's something you can roughly judge on your own. For most of my play sessions, I can tell you from pouring about 40 hours into the online multiplayer, I'll have MAYBE 2 or 3 people in each lobby that are using motion controls. Maybe. For the most part, there is no motion control designation next to the other names in the lobby.

For Splatoon, there really is no way to tell. I'm sure you can guess, but I sure don't play it with the motion controls. There's no way to tell in the actual game client as to who else is using motion (at least I don't think? correct me if I'm wrong), but I will say from poking around other forums, that the question as to how to turn OFF motion controls is a rather popular one.

@DefHalan: MAYBE I agree with developers keeping controllers in mind a bit more when developing FPS...maybe. But mouse and board is still the most accurate method. The twitch of a mouse is quicker than a stick, and even quicker than adjusting the arm/wrist while using a motion device, though it would be pretty close.

I would put my money on the guy with the mouse any day.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

skywake

@rallydefault: As someone who likes motion controls I don't use motion controls at all in Mario Kart 8 but I did use it exclusively in Mario Kart Wii. The reason? On the Wii U about 80% of the time I'm playing Mario Kart 8 off-TV and I don't want to be moving the screen around while I'm playing. So I don't think it's the best game to judge whether or not people "like" motion controls.

Then there's Splatoon where I do use it. And sure, people ask about how to turn it off. It's a thing. But some people aren't willing to even give it a chance. They have it in their heads that it's "bad" and never give it a shot. I think there's a good argument to be made for how much better that control option is. You're talking about the fine control of a KB/Mouse and in the same post are talking about how analogue sticks are better than motion controls. I'm telling you that motion controls are much closer to the finesse of a mouse than an analogue stick is. Especially when they work together in the way they do in Splatoon.

Speaking of lobby room anecdotes though. I was in a lobby for GTA5 online on PC and had my controller out because it was a racing mission. I was the only person with a controller and I hadn't muted everyone yet. Some dude started talking crap because I was using a controller. It was a racing mission, an analogue stick runs rings around wasd. I ended up doing pretty well (and then muted everyone). I reckon the people asking about how to turn of motion controls in Splatoon are the console gaming equivalent of that dude.

Edited on by skywake

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TuVictus

The only games that I feel most people actually agree motion controls are superior are Pikmin and Metroid. Or Pretty much any first person/pointer game. The rest seem to be a "ehhhhh I guess it's alright" situation. Certainly not Hyrule Warriors, where I think it's safe to say the motions for that are objectively worse. Since it's near impossible to accomplish the combos you want unless you count how many times you flick your wrist. They are just terrible.

TuVictus

skywake

Oh believe me, there was plenty of complaining about motion controls in Metroid. I mean I don't take that as a matter of opinion, those people are wrong, but they did complain.

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

TuVictus

Well yeah, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority agree they're superior. There's going to be complaining about every control option ever.

TuVictus

rallydefault

@skywake: Eh... your reckoning is kind of offensive lol that's stereotyping, man. I'm sure there are tons of people asking how to turn off the controls that would fall into that category, but there are also tons who probably gave the motion controls a decent amount of time, and ultimately decided they just wanted to switch to the sticks.

Just keep an open mind, you know? Personally, I played through most of the single-player campaign and maybe a couple hours of the multiplayer before deciding the motion controls just weren't cutting it for me. And I never make fun of people for choosing to use a certain type of controller when the option exists...that's just short-sighted and childish.

rallydefault

dumedum

Operative wrote:

Well yeah, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority agree they're superior. There's going to be complaining about every control option ever.

Not really. I've seen lots of people saying they prefer traditional controls for the Pikmin games as well. People who oppose them oppose them. I think they're completely stupid, but they do. They even say RE4 was better without, and that is the best use of pointer controls ever.

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TuVictus

dumedum wrote:

Operative wrote:

Well yeah, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority agree they're superior. There's going to be complaining about every control option ever.

Not really. I've seen lots of people saying they prefer traditional controls for the Pikmin games as well. People who oppose them oppose them. I think they're completely stupid, but they do. They even say RE4 was better without, and that is the best use of pointer controls ever.

Yes. and I say the vast majority see pointer controls as an improvement. That's pretty much my point.

Edited on by TuVictus

TuVictus

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